Ease off bashing AmigaONE X1000?

[vox]

I agree with you prices is everything. Even with my prepaid card I can  only fit $2,500.00 on it.  I dont have enough credit to even buy that.   C=USA was very over priced on everything.

Points you displayed as quote are filled  and agreed with sarcasm and bashing. There is a civil way to see the same. But yet even at A.org majority of voters says bashing is undeserved or that it should stop.

Would I love to buy Amiga computer? Yes if it was reasonable price. The  biggest concern is how many people will buy overpriced hobby.  

You can get better credit card, or reach for classic bank loan. Or take cheaper model, you know its not the only one.
A lot of people wish to have high end Mac but often can buy just basic one. In time, patience and saving, you can reach a goal.
Not just everything instantly.

Operation system that works with hardware is a must.

You are right about the OS, but sometimes is required to go first with  hardware. If we see AOS 4.2 2014, should Trevor wait so long with X1000?  In reality we got AOS 4.1.6 as it is for X1000, and X2000 developed  meanwhile. I don`t see failure in both.

When I build my computers I try to stay under 600.00 USA dollars.

You have SAM 440 in your league.

a) Who would spend $3,000+ on a Linux machine?

Who would buy $3000 Linux machine you say?

Answer is provided within - a true Linux (and AmigaOS) geek.

b) A-EON should discount the x1000 until fully operational under OS 4.x

You mean Hyperion should step up from its 115 euros? Well, even unplanned, they have made 4.1.6 work and I express gratitude for that

`c) A license to 4.2 is not worth thousands of dollars

No, but at least I will not pay for OS once its done. Its worth about 115 euros.

I find parallel with C-USA very offending. Yes AmigaOne has Amiga name and logo, but for true reason as it runs AmigaOS, and not licensed to resell common x86 hardware with their themed Linux. Its design that never existed before, to whom AmigaOS was ported and deserves credit.

AmigaOS survival doesn`t stand on X1000 - there are SAMs.

But path forward obviously has something to do with it.

Parallel would be most of MorphOS users crying because they just can`t find enough used G5 Macs, or finding them not fully used or terribly overpriced, and add to bonus with Mac logo ...

@Duce

So much time is wasted driving wedges between the "camps" - wouldn't it  be just great if we could simply agree that we're all Amigans and maybe  use our time better to get more up to date programs like Open Office,  modern printer drivers or modern, capable web browsers on *ALL* these  "modern" Amiga's?       

Agreed, my parallels use MorphOS just because that is OS in state most similar to AOS4 (PPC, RAM limits, similarly small community ...)

[vox]

I find your abc arguments stupid and insulting. But your right.
 

Back to the Raspberry Pi argument. You could buy 90+ (model b) or 125+ (model a) for the same cost as one X1000.

Good luck with 125 Pi`s of your choice.

So where does this put Individual computers? Should Jens start selling  his ACA cards @ $600+ each, his Indivision @ $1,000 because of the  limited market. There is a lot that can be learned from Individual  Computers such as reasonable pricing and innovative products. As far as  those bitching about modifying their Amiga 1200s to get ACA cards to  work - buy a X1000 if you can't be bothered.

Please, ACA cards are 030 and offered for Classics. OS4 equivalent of middle or next to lowest solution would be some of SAM 440 models on different frequencies, that cost less then some of Classic expansions on net. Used. Today.

[Megamig]

"We need to build computers for the masses, not the classes". Jack Tramiel
 
Therefore the criticism for the X1000 is warranted. What were the designers of the X1000 thinking when they were building this product. Lets build a computer that only a handful of users can afford.

The original Commodore-Amiga (1000) retailed at US$1,295 adjusted to 2013 levels that would be US$2,446. Cheaper than the X1000.
 
At least the Amiga 1000 was fully functioning at the time of release apart from a buggy kickstart. The original Amiga offered innovation and specifications that was unmatched by rivals at the time of release.
 
Although Tramiel had left Commodore by the time Amiga was marketed his business principles were still followed by management in the form of the A500, A600, A1200 models.

The X1000 lacks no influence to the Amiga 1000. The case is not A1000 inspired (no keyboard garage), it is overpriced (as mentioned above) and lacks anything remotely custom apart from Xorro - unlike the A1000 which featured custom video and audio chips.
 
What is more insulting (or stupid) is they moving to their next high spec model X2000 without addressing the problems that plagued the X1000 - high cost and lack of Amiga OS 4 compatibility.

E-on needs to address both if they wish to be feasible in the future. A X1000CR (cost reduced) model would be welcomed by many Amiga users if they could get the performance and price balance right.

[Duce]

Don't buy what you cannot afford, or what you don't see as being worth the money.  Example:

The vast majority of this world cannot afford a Ferrari, but I don't see people rising en masse and picketing the streetcorners in Maranello claiming that the Ferrari Corporation is the Devil incarnate

I have been critical of the pricing on all the OS4 machines, and I was one of the early adopters - but I also didn't ever assume they would come out at bargain basement pricing.  Base model SAM boards are now nearly one third of what they were new, so it seems pretty clear to me that it's a widely known and held opinion the platform has the stigma of being hard to enter price wise.  I paid nearly $1000 for my SAM board when it was brand new, and I am happy with it, just like I am the free Mac I am running MOS on.  Machinea I knew all along is underpowered in real world terms even compared to the cellular telephone I owned in 2009.  Different strokes for different folks and all that.

Want a cheap or even free Amiga experience?  There's MOS and AROS.

[Megamig]

Good luck with 125 Pi`s of your choice.

Truly you have more money than sense if you believe that a X1000 is worth the equivalent of 125 Pi's. What is the wholesale cost of producing a X1000?
 

Please, ACA cards are 030 and offered for Classics. OS4 equivalent of middle or next to lowest solution would be some of SAM 440 models on different frequencies, that cost less then some of Classic expansions on net. Used. Today.

You really don't get it. My point is that innovation does not have to come with a huge price tag. Jens could have gone for a 040, 060 or PPC card instead of the 020/030 but the cost would have priced most users out.

[Megamig]

The vast majority of this world cannot afford a Ferrari, but I don't see people rising en masse and picketing the streetcorners in Maranello claiming that the Ferrari Corporation is the Devil incarnate

Ferraris are worth their prestige as their quality is high. Comparing the X1000 to a Ferrari is like comparing chalk to cheese - one is refined the other is a work in progress.
 
Out of curiosity have the manufacturers of the X1000 guaranteed that all features will be implemented in full on future Amiga OS 4 releases or will they just ignore the X1000 once it is discontinued in favour of the X2000?

[gertsy]

...You really don't get it. My point is that innovation does not have to come with a huge price tag. Jens could have gone for a 040, 060 or PPC card instead of the 020/030 but the cost would have priced most users out.

 Sorry I don't get your last point.  I'm thinking the sentence is self contradictory.

As to the Duce.  Gotta love the Duce. Refreshing.
The point there is there's a cheaper option but you want the new option on your terms.  This is a well known psychological trait of us humans called product envy.  We don't need a Ferrari but we want one because someone else has one.  That's not fair, I can't afford it. It has to be someone elses fault. So then it has to be that it's either the owner of the Ferrari did something wrong, or Ferrari themselves.

[vox]

Truly you have more money than sense if you believe that a X1000 is worth the equivalent of 125 Pi's. What is the wholesale cost of producing a X1000?
 
You really don't get it. My point is that innovation does not have to come with a huge price tag. Jens could have gone for a 040, 060 or PPC card instead of the 020/030 but the cost would have priced most users out.

Truly, ACA is well placed as 030 offers enough but way more then 020. But that was the idea. Also even ACA is a new hardware, it copies exactly what existed before, so isn`t that much of a innovation as replication in modern standards for fair price.

With X1000 they have tried to do high end, what would be beyond 060 in Classic league.

So again, apples and bannanas.

And when you look to price of high end used Classics, they often surpass
prices of new SAM 440/460.

Who is expensive then?

[vox]

Ferraris are worth their prestige as their quality is high. Comparing the X1000 to a Ferrari is like comparing chalk to cheese - one is refined the other is a work in progress.
 
Out of curiosity have the manufacturers of the X1000 guaranteed that all features will be implemented in full on future Amiga OS 4 releases or will they just ignore the X1000 once it is discontinued in favour of the X2000?

It is Ferrari of OS4 World.

Yes, AOS 4.2 should support X1000 fully and X2000 is replacement board based on foundation of experience with X1000, basically kind of same board designed around more avail CPU.

It would be possible to wait for AOS 4.2 before X1000 launch, but then yet we would not have what to critisise

Truly you have more money than sense if you believe that a X1000 is  worth the equivalent of 125 Pi's. What is the wholesale cost of  producing a X1000?

I find Pi nice project for those needing first computer in less developed countries, but no interest at it all other then that.
Its not all in quantities.

[vox]

"We need to build computers for the masses, not the classes". Jack Tramiel.

If it was Atari I would agree.

That motto was true just for lower end Amigas like A500,A600 and A1200 but they were always crippled for pro use unless heavily expanded, and prices of expansion and high end models were for the classes.

Not that I wouldn`t like to see mass produced Amigas again, what A-EON and ACube do is what is currently possible on a very small market. Comparing it to Amiga glory of 90s is like comparing early days of IBM PC XT when it was unknown so they paid Dirty DOS for it, with its today glory. Just in our case its other way around. Our glory days are past.

[gertsy]

... it copies exactly what existed before, so isn`t that much of a innovation as replication in modern standards for fair price.

That's were my head was and why I didn't get Megamig's point. I'm not saying its not a fantastic effort and product. I luv Jen's products and respect him immensely.

And Jack just copied Henry; "Cars for the people". Jack was good a copying acquiring and mass production.

[Blizz1220]

There would be no bashing of x1000 if there was a cheap less than
200 Eur alternative on the AOS4 market like there is for Morphos ...

Sam 440 and 460 are not that alternative because only the
motherboard + CPU costs more than that and ACube is making
no more money than Trevor which is the fact everybody seem
to be forgetting ...

Why do you need "custom" motherboard anyway ?

When you put it in the tower you will never see it again
unless it breaks down , if there was a PowerMac G5 motherboard in there you wouldn't even know the difference.

[spirantho]

There would be no bashing of x1000 if there was a cheap less than
200 Eur alternative on the AOS4 market like there is for Morphos ...

Even in the Commodore days, Amigas were considerably higher than that price for the low-end models. The only reason MorphOS is so cheap is because they're all mass-produced but obsolete second-hand models (and I mean that literally, not in a derogative sense).
Comparing Apples and Bananas again here.

[itix]

Sorry I don't get your last point.  I'm thinking the sentence is self contradictory.

As to the Duce.  Gotta love the Duce. Refreshing.
The point there is there's a cheaper option but you want the new option on your terms.  This is a well known psychological trait of us humans called product envy.  We don't need a Ferrari but we want one because someone else has one.  That's not fair, I can't afford it. It has to be someone elses fault. So then it has to be that it's either the owner of the Ferrari did something wrong, or Ferrari themselves.

I think you missed the point. Majority of motorists dont even consider buying Ferrari because
 a) it is expensive
 b) as a car it is not very practical
 c) you cant buy Ferrari anywhere
 d) there is no Ferrari Compact, Ferrari Van, Ferrari Pickup nor Ferrari Off-road

Instead they go to buy Fiat Grande Punto instead with kid seats and go to Italian Walmart to buy a discount pizza. And it makes sense. You cant pack your family to Ferrari, can you?

[itix]

Even in the Commodore days, Amigas were considerably higher than that price for the low-end models. The only reason MorphOS is so cheap is because they're all mass-produced but obsolete second-hand models (and I mean that literally, not in a derogative sense).
Comparing Apples and Bananas again here.

But indeed Amiga 500 sold the best and is the most memorable Amiga.

[Blizz1220]

Even in the Commodore days, Amigas were considerably higher than that price for the low-end models. The only reason MorphOS is so cheap is because they're all mass-produced but obsolete second-hand models (and I mean that literally, not in a derogative sense).
Comparing Apples and Bananas again here.

No I don't think they are that much different ...

Motherboards based on say Sis 745 chipset or on Intel 945GZ chipset
are all the same even if they are produced by Asus,MSI,Epox,IBM or
anyone else ... PPC Chipsets in those old Macs are almost the same
thing as chipset used in AmigaOne x1000 ...

When you pay 3000 $ for it you are not supporting AmigaOS 4 developers , you are not supporting Trevor or Acube , you are supporting Freescale
and Varisys with that money because they will get the lion's share of
that price ...

I can see the need for having custom case,keyboard,mouse or even better having some cool piece of hardware like Catweasel or FPGA card designed
to give you Amiga experience , but I can see no rational reason why you
would want to reinvent the old Mac in the form of Amiga motherboard ...