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Author Topic: Indivision AGA Flicker Fixer/Scandoubler  (Read 6129 times)

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Offline Jiffy

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Re: Indivision AGA Flicker Fixer/Scandoubler
« Reply #44 from previous page: September 25, 2008, 10:26:33 AM »
Quote

Khephren wrote:
Then I'm a bit confused, as it says '24bit colour resolution in all screenmodes'.

Why? It can indeed display all colours the A1200 can reproduce. The A1200 has a 24 bit palette, but not all of them can be displayed at the same time. For example, you can have a 640x512 workbench with a maximum of 256 colours. Those colours are selected from a 24-bit palette. With older flickerfixers for the Amiga (1200), not all colours could be correctly reproduced on screen, as they had a maximum colour resolution of 12 or 16 bits (depending on model).

When using one of those older 16 bits flickerfixers, you could only display 65,536 different colours, even though the A1200 can display 16,777,216 different ones. The Indivision 1200 is able to correctly display all colours the A1200 has to offer, although (depending on the used screenmode) not all of them will be displayed simultaneously.

All in all, the Indivision 1200 is a 24 bit flickerfixer as it can display every single colour from the 24 bits AGA-palette.
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Offline jj

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Re: Indivision AGA Flicker Fixer/Scandoubler
« Reply #45 on: September 25, 2008, 11:07:22 AM »
Nearly correct.  The A1200 does NOT have a 24bit resolution, it has a 24bit Pallette
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Offline Ratte

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Re: Indivision AGA Flicker Fixer/Scandoubler
« Reply #46 on: September 25, 2008, 11:55:07 AM »
HAM8-Mode supports 262,244 Colors out of 16.777.216 at the same time.
But HAM8 can´t used for the WB.
 

Offline Khephren

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Re: Indivision AGA Flicker Fixer/Scandoubler
« Reply #47 on: September 25, 2008, 12:13:26 PM »
Yes, i'm fully conversant with these details, I make bitplane based graphics for a living.

But the advert says 24bit resolution for all screens, and it is not, the bit resolution of all modes remains the same, but it does allow you to choose from a 24bit pallete when in non ham mode.

A bit misleading in my opinion.
 

Offline samplist

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Re: Indivision AGA Flicker Fixer/Scandoubler
« Reply #48 on: September 25, 2008, 12:13:45 PM »
262144 to be exact  :roll:
 

Offline Britelite

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Re: Indivision AGA Flicker Fixer/Scandoubler
« Reply #49 on: September 25, 2008, 01:46:51 PM »
Quote

Khephren wrote:
But the advert says 24bit resolution for all screens, and it is not, the bit resolution of all modes remains the same, but it does allow you to choose from a 24bit pallete when in non ham mode.


It means you get the full 24bit palette when using AGA-modes, as most of the old scandoublers only showed the colors in 16/18bit-precision.
 

Offline Ratte

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Re: Indivision AGA Flicker Fixer/Scandoubler
« Reply #50 on: September 25, 2008, 06:34:45 PM »
Quote

samplist wrote:
262144 to be exact  :roll:

 :cheers:

:idea:
786432   :-D
1024x768 ham8

 :-P
 

Offline recidivist

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Re: Indivision AGA Flicker Fixer/Scandoubler
« Reply #51 on: September 26, 2008, 01:31:33 AM »
Re:a missing scan line 2/3rds down the pic.
Some  CRT displays had a fine wire (internally) that had something to do with focusing,and very few TV views ever noticed it.Trinitrons mostly,I think.But a static display more easily reveals this line.One model of CRT reportedly had TWO wires -one  1/3 and the second 2/3rd from the top.
 

Offline Damion

Re: Indivision AGA Flicker Fixer/Scandoubler
« Reply #52 on: September 26, 2008, 02:08:50 AM »
Yeah, I was thinking along similar lines with the missing scan line. 15" Trinitrons had only one damper wire, 17" and above had 2. (Mitsubishi Diamondtron tubes had them as well.)

Never bothered me in the slightest, but I used to lol at the newegg reviews of people returning their monitors for the "messed up row of pixels" :-)

 

Offline Ratte

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Re: Indivision AGA Flicker Fixer/Scandoubler
« Reply #53 on: September 26, 2008, 07:04:00 PM »
a1k is online again !!
 
follow this link to the latest (alpha/beta/gamma) flashupdate.
www.a1k.org/forum/showthread.php?p=198389
 
HD720 (1280x720) widescreen (16:9) support added !!!
(HD720 is part of the HighGFX40.6 aminet-package)
 
have phun ;-)
 

Offline Damion

Re: Indivision AGA Flicker Fixer/Scandoubler
« Reply #54 on: September 30, 2008, 09:20:14 AM »
WOOT! Just got mine today. Red shipped it Friday, and somehow it managed to make it all the way from Florida to Nevada over the weekend. :D

Fortunately, installation was easy in my case. I have an "HP" branded Lisa (Escom, factory-fixed 1D4 board), yet there were no issues securing the Indivision. (Just pressed it on with mild to moderate pressure, and it's fine.) Call me lazy, but I didn't modify the RF shield... I simply used a couple of strategically placed plastic feet (with mild adhesive on one side) to make sure the shield couldn't contact the Indi. I'll have to make a cable to relocate my Prelude card, but no big issues.

Immediately I fired up my favorite Loveboat demo, and was very pleased with the results. Just for kicks, I loaded up a few 256 color single-color gradients (as ripped from something alexh posted a while back), and as expected the unit handles the AGA palette correctly. Workbench looks just fine, but there are a few things to keep in mind -- I don't mean to preach to the choir, just thought I'd share a few thoughts, since I recall reading a complaint or two about text quality:

1. Text on any CRT will be less sharp than an LCD at its native resolution, particularly with an aperture grill CRT (Trinitron/Diamondtron). If you're used to LCD's, the difference will be dramatic, even compared to an expensive CRT.

2. CRT's are sensitive to sync frequencies in relation to text clarity, so you'll need to play around with your screenmode settings, Indivision config, and monitor settings to find what's most acceptable to your eyes. (There should be some tools on aminet to help "dial in" your monitor.)

3. Text on LCD's will be less sharp if the display resolution is not matched to the LCD native resolution (though some LCD's probably have better scaling algorithms than others). Something like 640 x 512 should look okay on an LCD with a native res of 1280 x 1024 (17" and 19" units).

4. Any number of things can cause interference, from cheap cables, to (in my case) your PSU... or a ceiling fan on the other end of the house.

5. Your A1200 is 15 years old, please don't expect absolute perfection. :) IMO Jens has done an amazing job working with this old hardware.

Obviously, scrolling will not be as smooth with the framerate conversion enabled. (This is simply mathematics, no way around it.) Pinball games are effected most, while the handful of demos I watched surprisingly didn't look as bad as I had expected. (Another thing to keep in mind is that not all Amiga games and demos feature perfect scrolling to begin with.) However, turning the scanrate option off is a 2-second task, and it switches on the fly without having to save. So in my case, primarily using a CRT, I can enjoy games games/demos at their native frequency, yet switch up the scanrate and mess around on the desktop for longer periods without the CRT burning holes to my brain. 75 vs 60Hz in NTSC is a nice improvement, with no additional strain on the chipset (slowdown) since the Indi handles all the processing. :)

I connected an older 17" Samsung PVA LCD for test, and despite a little noise in the picture (ropey VGA cable), my overall impression was positive. Text appeared just fine at 640 x 512, and the crisp, beautiful colors of Loveboat's "Beats" demo (and Hostyle Takeover, Kilofix, Grid2, Zif) looked fantastic. I'll try to steer away from making subjective comparisons (having a Cybervision 64/3D scandoubler in my A2K, and years ago a DCE A1200 scandoubler), but so far I'd say the quality of the display is more than adequate... especially when firing up your favorite game or demo.
 
Overall, I'm ecstatic. It was ridiculous to have a bunch of money invested into an AGA amiga for the sole purpose of watching demos, only to have to view them on a 1084. After tons of wasted time and money on LCD TVs, the JROK, etc, it's a dream to plug my A1200 into any number of nice monitors... and enjoy. :)
 

Offline Damion

Re: Indivision AGA Flicker Fixer/Scandoubler
« Reply #55 on: October 02, 2008, 09:39:12 AM »
Something I forgot to add, using the config tool to adjust PAL vsync rate to 1.5x (75Hz) can make scrolling *much* smoother for LCD use. Problem is many LCDs don't display 75Hz properly (maybe dropping a frame, or just plain not working), but worth a shot anyway.


 

Offline kolla

Re: Indivision AGA Flicker Fixer/Scandoubler
« Reply #56 on: October 02, 2008, 09:49:51 AM »
Quote

Ratte wrote:
HAM8-Mode supports 262,244 Colors out of 16.777.216 at the same time.
But HAM8 can´t used for the WB.


Actually, it can. If you have a hex editor to edit env:sys/screenmode.prefs (and envard:) :-)

http://aminet.net/package/driver/moni/WBHacksAGA

There are also some HAM6 and HAM8 icon collections on aminet. It would be nice if there was a HAM-ticker in the ScreenMode prefs, for 6 and 8 bit displays.

And it would be excellent if AfA could support HAM WB :-D
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Offline alexh

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Re: Indivision AGA Flicker Fixer/Scandoubler
« Reply #57 on: October 02, 2008, 10:09:38 AM »
Quote

samplist wrote:
262144 to be exact  :roll:

It's HAM mode, there is no exact! It all depends on the contents. You cannot have any colour on any pixel.

When you combine this fact with lores PAL screens (320x256) only having 81,920 pixels, and High-Res PAL screens (640x256) only having 163,840 pixels it's kinda pointless to use the number 262,144 dont you think?
 

Offline Khephren

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Re: Indivision AGA Flicker Fixer/Scandoubler
« Reply #58 on: October 03, 2008, 07:13:15 PM »
I remember using ham icons on WB, but I stopped using it because I could never get the backdrop picture to be in HAM.
Did you ever get around that?
 

Offline trip6

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Re: Indivision AGA Flicker Fixer/Scandoubler
« Reply #59 on: October 03, 2008, 09:38:40 PM »
Why all the fuss about RF shield modification? Remove it, it really makes a minimal amount of difference. I believe if I remember correctly Ray Carlsen or somebody actually measured RF with\without the shield. The difference was so small it made no real difference.