Amiga One X 1000 and Xena/Xorro

[KimmoK]

To my understanding no-one has yet done anything productive with xena/xorro.
Two things released:
http://www.os4depot.net/index.php?function=showfile&file=utility/hardware/nemo_led_p31.lha
http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz/?p=654

Development board to buy:
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1135
(looks expensive, but if it is possible to bridge xcore to pcie with it, then it might have no alternative at the moment (on any platform), then again, what to use it for.)

[KimmoK]

Just a thought:
Xena/xorro enables true hard realtime control on a desktop computer, without messing up the desktop OS kernell for the task.

And for real practical usage, we must wait the first person to do it.

(as cyrus+ does not have audio onboard.... perhaps a xorro audiocard could be used. It might have power&resopnsiveness enough to adjust the 3D sound as needed according to users head movements.)

Old list of (silly/halfsane/whatever) ideas: http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=27379&forum=33

[KimmoK]

Or just buy a 10$ soundcard supported by allready existing drivers...

Sure. But 10$ sound card might not be able the tune the 3D sound environment according to head movements.

(btw. the cheapest sound card I found locally cost 30€, C-Media CMI8786 based, legacy PCI)

(also if xorro sound card would be made, it should have atari ports etc etc. as well for more easy access to xena I/O)

@thread

The lack of good xcore development environment on AOS4 is huge handicap.
But also, if "xena" would exist in some more affordable motherboard (with low latency CPU localbus&JTAG), it might get some users from http://www.xcore.com/ .

[KimmoK]

Maybe I missed something - but as far as I know there currently is no way of 3D-printing steel parts or other metal parts. ...

There exist 3D printers that can print out metallic parts. (very expensive devices, used by some prototype labs)
(I have held some printouts on my hand.)

(IIRC, there's also some experimental printers that print out concrete houses and someone made solar powered device that goes on sand at sahara and outputs some pots welded from sand and ....)

[KimmoK]

Shapes made of metal perhaps, but probably not useful metallic parts:...

Hey there, even paperweights are usefull at windy places!  

(but sure, printed metal parts are not yet as tough has normal steel as an example. But in some cases, like using it as heat spreader, it can be ok.)

@Lyle
" If it helps them expand the user base (or just shut me up) then it's good for everyone."

Nice!

[KimmoK]

I believe it was just a marketing thing. ...

IMO: That's childish thing to say.

We know the xcore idea came from Varisys. Not from any Amiga custom chip lover or marketing man.

I would love to hear what was the idea by Varisys people when they suggested that core should have direct connection to CPU.  Lower latency (than over PCI or USB) between CPU & xcore? Being able to have 100% control of xcore without extra tools? Being able to reprogram xcore on the fly per desktop application request? All of those? More?

[KimmoK]

taking the comment here into account:
http://obligement.free.fr/articles_traduction/itwgentle_en.php
it seems that varisys considered comission for x1k an opportunity to design experimental linux based ppc development platform without taking financial risk themselves. they probably have not been technically concerned with os4 side of things, since it likely did not qualify for a valid part of agreement, due to their lack of expertise in the field and also since it couldnt offer a stable reference when finalizing the project.

There's also this:
"The Xena chip is interesting because it offers users the ability to add functionality to their X1000 machines. We have designed a Xorro interface board that will enable user to add their own circuitry. It follows the ethos of the original Amiga, where users are encouraged to get hands on and be as inventive as possible."

AOS4 integrated xena devkit "just" needs "inventing" first. :-|


The world outside Amiga anyway thinks that there is some use for CPU+xcore integrated product, and because of that, there now exist xcore chips that has also ARM CPU built in. (that also is some kind of alternative to PA6T+xcore combo)

[KimmoK]

It's possible, it would be interesting to see what uses people could find for it in a classic Amiga.....

One core use case for xcore is to use it as a bridge chip. In that way it could enable limited classics to get interfaces to modern technology.

Another way would/could be a FPGA card for zorro & clockport.

(neither make sense businesswise, but that's no news on our niche)


For cheaper access to xena... it would be cool if every NG HW had two or more (shielded/protected) D9 ports that have xena I/O.
Then we could use legacy joysticks etc very easily + use those pins for instrumentation & home automation etc. without too much extra HW.

[KimmoK]

So you can load code in it? Can you use the official tools (f.e. on windows) to create it? ...

From the thread so far: you can load code to xena from AOS4 command line.
But "compiler" runs only on windows.
There's a "study" of putting up a server to handle that compilation for all x1000 etc. users.
(another option might be emulator to run windows tools on AOS4, but so far no luck)


(And to my understanding there's a study if it is possible to implement a system that enables swapping the running program/code per thread, without needing to restart the whole chip or something. That would be pretty cool. Perhaps unique even.)
(& IIRC, the chip is XS1-L2 https://www.xmos.com/download/public/XS1-L02A-QF124-Datasheet%28X1466E%29.pdf http://www.a-eon.com/18-10-2013-5.pdf)

And because I stumbled on that x1000 PDF... why it lists only 8GB RAM supported? I thought PA6T can address 32GB of RAM?

[KimmoK]

@xena warrior

Is xena able to generate interrupt to PA6T?
Is PA6T able to generate interrupt to xena?
What is the max bandwidth between PA6T and xena?
Is it possible to do DMA transfer to PA6T RAM from xena?


I think I lost the link to PA6T-xena-xorro schematic, is it somewhere as free?


Then, just playing with ideas...
Work for all those cores/threads:
1: Control.
2: Data in. (CPU interface)
3: Data out. (CPU interface)
4: D9-1-io
5: D9-2-io
6: D9-3-io
7: D9-4-io
8: Floppy-control (kryoflux on xcore)
9: Floppy-data
10: i2s-out  / SPDIF
11: i2s-in
12: Fan-Control
13: funky-led-control
14: watchdog (PA6T might have wd built in, but I'm not sure if one can use it on AOS4)
15: parallel-port-out or DA/DIO out or RPi I/O emu or arduino I/O emu. ...
16: parallel-port-in or AD/DAQ in ...

I wonder ... once such SW is loaded to xcore, would it be simple to just configure I/O on the fly (by control process) and then set needed threads/cores to work...

guestions galore:
-is it possible to have xena running when PA6T is off/sleep/halted?

out of curiosity, old xena thread @ xmoslinkers: http://archive.xmoslinkers.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=700

[KimmoK]

Thank you for that info! (again)

...
3> I've forgotten what max bandwidth is on the X1000, it moved around a lot while developing the interface. The interface has been enhanced on Cyrus, but I have not yet had a chance to clock it.
....

At some point PA6T-xena-xorro schematic was shown in a-eon gallery, from that & xcore specs I figured out that PA6T-xena bus bandwidth is 30Mbytes/s or less. That is plenty for control and some data. (for larger needs one can use the PCIe inline with xena I/O connector)


btw. nasty thing how they stirred and mixed the chip&thread&core namings, sometimes as an ordinary engineer that annoys greatly (It's not enough having to all the time learn new things, because of those PR dudes one needs to re-learn also some of the old)

...a thought about xena->CPU interrupt ... very nice that interrupt can be generated, it would be nice to do interrupt driven things rather than the M$ USB polling methology, there's better use for CPUs than polling interfaces.

[KimmoK]

about dev board...

Surely the person affording to buy x1000 affords to buy the xorro devboard as well.

But IF xena&xorro wold exist on cheaper motherboard, I wonder if normal empty PCIex4 (/x8)= prototyping board could be used as well to get I/O out of xena...

(after quick check... did not spot cheaper than amikit board ... surely somewhere...)

[KimmoK]

...remake of the old x86 bridgeboards ...

I think there exist suitable x86-on-PCIe -cards. "Only" the SW needs to be made. The SW work needed might be too much vs getting cheap x86 node and connect to it via RDesktop...

+ If a-eon x86-on-PCIe custom HW would be made, getting M$ OS support for it costs millions I believe ... let's not enter there!



UPDATE: silly stuff, MAME & xcore
http://www.xcore.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2449&p=15308&hilit=joystick&sid=68204a68fee6dc45d080fc053e3d8fed#p15308


UPDATE: if someone does not know what xena/xcore is...
https://www.xmos.com/download/public/xCORE-Architecture%28X9650D%29.pdf