Amiga.org
Amiga.org specific forums => Amiga.org Discussion and Site Feedback => Topic started by: on February 23, 2005, 02:52:56 PM
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Due to security and database integrity concerns, we intend to institute a password change across the board for every account on March 31st. After that point, your password will be reset and you will need to request a new one.
This servers several purposes, including helping to prune older non-used and duplicate accounts. We also intend to prune users who have not logged in for over 365 days. We also need to consider pruning forum threads which have not been updated for 365 days.
VERY IMPORTANT : Check your account to make sure that the e-mail address is correct and up to date. With one month's worth of advanced notice, when your password is reset, if your e-mail address is not correct, you will simply be out of luck. You DO NOT have to make your e-mail address visible to the rest of the world, but your account MUST contain the correct e-mail address.
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We also intend to prune ... forum threads which have not been updated for 365 days.
Is there any particular reason for this, other than cleaning up the system?
I would imagine several historical and otherwise important threads could get pruned. For example I often use search function to find a link to older thread that already covers some particular topic.
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Piru wrote:
I would imagine several historical and otherwise important threads could get pruned. For example I often use search function to find a link to older thread that already covers some particular topic.
this disturbes me as well. there are some threads that I have listed in my "Notifications" that are there for occassional perusal (and laughs).
while there isn't much left to say in those threads, they still provide a use. at least to me.
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How about just pruning the coffee house?
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Notice updated and adjusted.
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Everyone,
The security password change has been needed for some time, especially in regards to certain users who claim that their accounts have been hacked. I am glad to see that Wayne is taking action on this item.
With respect to cleaning up the forums database, it has become quite large and really should be optimized. I do tend to agree with others here about some of the forums needing to be maintained for archival purposes (AMIGA related) so I would like to suggest to Wayne that only the Coffee House forums be cleaned up, using the rule he listed.
Regards,
ltstanfo
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ltstanfo wrote:
With respect to cleaning up the forums database, it has become quite large and really should be optimized. I do tend to agree with others here about some of the forums needing to be maintained for archival purposes (AMIGA related) so I would like to suggest to Wayne that only the Coffee House forums be cleaned up, using the rule he listed.
Aye, probably for the best... Maybe keep sock related threads though... ;-)
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I apologize if I have been less than clear on the password reset. Here's how it will work:
On March 31st, I will reset all passwords on all accounts to a random password. You will have to use the lost password function to request a new password to be sent to you. If your e-mail address in your account is not valid, your account will be unable to get a new password. We will NOT hand out manually new passwords to those who forget to update their e-mail address ahead of time.
If you do not have a valid e-mail account (as is the case with most bogus accounts, your account will -- in essence -- become unusable. You have over a month's worth of advance notice, there is no acceptable excuse for not following through.
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Wouldn't it be more prudent to drop xoop and go with something that is proven, like slashcode (http://www.slashcode.com/)?
Dammy
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I wouldn't mind going with something else, but a slashdot style site is the very opposite of what we need. Was looking at another package as you may remember, but the amount of work involved means it would be far easier just to dump everything and start all over again.
If people are upset at the need to prune the forums, God forbid we think about going with some other package. It would be anarchy.
On the positive side, such a "reboot" would allow us to both refocus the site and to get rid of several of the problems we suffer from now.
Thoughts?
Wayne
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What about Invision Power Board, A lot of forums use that package and it`s very easy to use from a user (ie forum members) point of view.
Trooper
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Though Amiga.org (and indeed the Amiga community) may be a shadow of what it once was, it's not just a forum.
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by Wayne on 2005/2/23 12:46:28
I apologize if I have been less than clear on the password reset. Here's how it will work:
On March 31st, I will reset all passwords on all accounts to a random password. You will have to use the lost password function to request a new password to be sent to you. If your e-mail address in your account is not valid, your account will be unable to get a new password. We will NOT hand out manually new passwords to those who forget to update their e-mail address ahead of time.
If you do not have a valid e-mail account (as is the case with most bogus accounts, your account will -- in essence -- become unusable. You have over a month's worth of advance notice, there is no acceptable excuse for not following through.
A couple of quick questions:
1) After we get the new random password via E-mail, can we log onto our accounts and change the password back to what it was? Or does it have to be different?
2) If someone doesn't get his new password (say he doesn't check his E-mail for a month) couldn't he log on as a new user and make a new account?
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Ack, No...
Also, we're not a forum site.
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Questions:
1) How large is the database?
2) Is is possible to "export" in a reduced/changed format?
3) Would it be possible to allow access to it in "archived" format?
This would allow you to move to different software and still allow access to "archived" versions of the old database.
Just a thought...
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If it's causing problems I say dump it and start over...change is good, no reason to stall the inevitable. Maybe the old site could be archived in a "read only" state for those who feel it's necessary, or better yet just a certain few threads that cover common issues.
Good luck
:pint:
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1) It's Big.
2) Changed/reduced how? Exporting is easy. If your talking about the planned pruning, it'll be the site database providing site content. It'll get exported for backup as usual. Not really sure what you are getting at.
3) The pruned DB? Why? The only way the information in the database would make sence is if it is presented by Xoops. Raw SQL Exports are pretty incoherent to read.
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by dammy on 2005/2/23 16:00:03 Wouldn't it be more prudent to drop xoop and go with something that is proven, like slashcode?
yeah, but it would still look like Slashdot. Might work for ANN though.
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I haven't been here for that long, however i feel that it would be a darn shame to pruge all posts more than one year old. We/you would loose alot of historical data plus I find the search function EVERY usefull indeed, and those posts are typicaly more than a year old.
Whatever you want to do with the non-amiga related forums is your own business :-)
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Argo wrote:
1) It's Big.
Big is a relative term. How big? 1 gigabyte. 2. .5? .25?
2) Changed/reduced how? Exporting is easy. If your talking about the planned pruning, it'll be the site database providing site content. It'll get exported for backup as usual. Not really sure what you are getting at.
If you can generate html to send to a user, then is it possible to generate/export an html representation of the forums? I know nothing about Xoops or site databases. This is just a shot in the dark...
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I would have taken this site as we know it and moved it to "classicamiga.org" which I owned a couple of years ago then built a new, better-focused Amiga.org from scratch. Alas, since I let it go, someone else has registered it.
Wayne
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2) If someone doesn't get his new password (say he doesn't check his E-mail for a month) couldn't he log on as a new user and make a new account?
If he wanted the same user name he'd need to have not logged on for a year, right?
@Wayne
How long after the change will accounts that have not been "reactivated", because they didn't request a new password, be deleted? When they are deleted, won't we have loads of "anonymous" posts?
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If you haven't logged on in a year, your account, any comments, posts, and any other content attributed to you will be deleted, so yes, the forums will be in effect, self-pruning.
The reason for this need is that the forums now cover almost 300 megabytes worth of database space. As you might imagine, throwing 300 megabytes worth of data around can get to be a nightmare.
As I said earlier though, if I had a suitable domain (such as classicamiga.org), I would have simply moved the current incarnation of AO to it and built a new, more focused and relevant site using AO.
Wayne
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@Wayne,
Well, if you remember, I did bother you with some PM's with different CMS and Forum software.. IIRC Invision was/is available as a module for Xoops, but it could also be another CMS. (Not saying you didn't reply, you did ;-))
At work we dropped the idea of using a CMS, as we only "need" a forum, we decided to get a forum based on SQL, not MySql, and also dropping PHP (.net / ASP). Not sure about the name of the (free) package we are using now, but is it a consideration to drop MySQL ? Sure, nothing wrong with MySQL.
Also to consider, Xoops is free, MySQL is free. SQL and Invision are not.
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Questions:
1) How large is the database?
2) Is is possible to "export" in a reduced/changed format?
3) Would it be possible to allow access to it in "archived" format?
Hm.. Should be doable I guess. Xoops can run different Forum modules, tho AFAIK not the same module more then 1.
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I would have taken this site as we know it and moved it to "classicamiga.org" which I owned a couple of years ago then built a new, better-focused Amiga.org from scratch. Alas, since I let it go, someone else has registered it.
Hm.. How about grandpa.amiga.org ? :-) (Or better grandma.amiga.org ?)
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How about moving onto a better forum software, but still keeping everything from the old one as well, however totally independent from the new? You could call it Amiga.org archive and it would look exactly the same as it does now, however without any posting permissions, and the only purpose of it would be to keep historically important posts, or perhaps more, if space permits. You could just enable the use of search function on the old system and nothing else. Simply transfer usernames and their post counts (if this is a must) to the new software, and that's it.
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x56h34 wrote:
and that's it.
No sweat. :-D
Trooper
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How about grandpa.amiga.org ...
Or, thisoldforum.amiga.org or fogeyposts.amiga.org or largetextfileofoldpostsnobodydownloads.amiga.org. :-P
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There is no inclination, desire, or need to drop MySQL, PHP, or anything outside of the poorly designed Xoops 2.x engine.
Wayne
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I guess I just don't understand why everyone seems to be confused about the fact that Amiga.org is not simply a forum software, and there's no desire to make it such.
If I had the time or energy to devote to the project, I'd write EXACTLY what we need. Unfortunately with my currently available resources (none), doing so would be near impossible and unfortunately there aren't enough PHP programmers of note in the Amiga community who're REALLY interested in donating their time/energy to forming a team either.
A site COULD be written that would blow Xoops/Nuke/any other CMS engine away, but no one has the time. There's also the fact that anything written has to be done in a crippled fashion to accommodate the 10% of Amiga-using visitors left that are stuck with retarded browsers. That leaves us with freebie Xoops / PHP Nuke clones.
I'm ALL for moving the current Amiga.org to another domain and starting over if it's really worth the effort (meaning Amiga actually DOES something). Unfortunately classicamiga.org is already taken.
Wayne
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I don't know where this confusion comes from, but there is no interest at all in replacing the FORUM software in Xoops. Only Xoops itself.
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I don't know where this confusion comes from, but there is no interest at all in replacing the FORUM software in Xoops. Only Xoops itself.
Hm. So if you had a CMS that has a newbb (xoops forum) compatible you'd be happy ?
The confusion comes from the fact that a CMS isn't a Forum, but a forum is what most people know and understand and don't realize what a CMS is.
(For comparison www.amiga.org "vs" www.spookychick.com, the first uses a CMS to hold a forum, the later, it seems, is "just a forum")
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Unfortunately classicamiga.org is already taken.
I'll admit I'm not entirely at home with domain names, but if you own ***.amiga.org, then anything before .amiga.org is yours as well ? (Notice the first ".")
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seer wrote:
Unfortunately classicamiga.org is already taken.
I'll admit I'm not entirely at home with domain names, but if you own ***.amiga.org, then anything before .amiga.org is yours as well ? (Notice the first ".")
I thought about that, but it's not particularly intuitive to people.
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If you own ***.amiga.org, then anything before .amiga.org is yours as well ? (Notice the first ".")
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Many newspaper sites use "//www.name.com" as the front door, once your there, clicking on a searching link may send you to "//archive2004.name.com", clicking on a forum link will send you to "//forums.name.com" or what ever other subdomains they may use to organize articles, forums, want ads, ect... transparent to the user, who just looks for the links on the "//www.mainpage.com" that send them to whatever subdomain their interested in.
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ltstanfo wrote:
Everyone,
The security password change has been needed for some time, especially in regards to certain users who claim that their accounts have been hacked. I am glad to see that Wayne is taking action on this item.
With respect to cleaning up the forums database, it has become quite large and really should be optimized. I do tend to agree with others here about some of the forums needing to be maintained for archival purposes (AMIGA related) so I would like to suggest to Wayne that only the Coffee House forums be cleaned up, using the rule he listed.
Regards,
ltstanfo
gosh darn it, it's called CRACKING!!!!!!
look up hacking in the websters unabridged dictionary of the english langauge! :madashell: :madashell: :madashell:
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forums now cover almost 300 megabytes worth of database space
iz'zat all? Installing XP takes 1.2 gig. 'Course I'm used to wrestling with 120-300gig db's and their not filled with amiga vs morph vs elbox vs hyperion...... that would crash any DB :-)
Plaz
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A disembodied voice from the heavens named Wayne spake ominously:
"We also need to consider pruning forum threads which have not been updated for 365 days."
PLEASE don't delete old threads! They are a valuable source of technical information!
How would u like it if google "pruned" unpopular old threads?
(Like say, everything from all comp.sys.amiga.* which hardly anyone uses.)
At the very least don't delete anything from programming, games, hardware issues, software issues.
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So as long as our e-mail addys are in check, we should recieve new passwords?
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Personally, I agree not to delete amiga specific threads, but I think you should put something like
FAILURE TO MAINTAIN A CURRENT EMAIL ADDRESS WILL RESULT IN YOU GETTING DELETED FROM THE SYSTEM
in very large type, it wasn't until I actually checked _this_ thread that I realized I should actually check my listed email address, which in fact was not current (due to the bankruptcy of that particular ISP). :pissed:
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gosh darn it, it's called CRACKING!!!!!!
True, but "hack" isn't a very kindly-sounding word, is it? ;)
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I can't help but notice that the March the 31st deadline has passed and yet I seem to have been logged in automatically as usual. Am I missing something here?
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@Managarm
Remember that it's not April everywhere yet. I'm sure that Wayne is being extra careful...
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I also am concerned about deleting old postings. Amiga.org serves an important historical function.
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Alas, the password changes are not to be.
Despite giving everyone over 1.5 months to comply and update their e-mail addresses, only 8% of you ever did, meaning that if I changed everyone's password, I would get about 1000 people {bleep}ing and screaming because I wouldn't manually reset their password later, or thousands of orphaned posts as I deleted older accounts. Then we'd get a couple of thousand new duplicate accounts being created in violation of our Terms of Service.
Suffice to say that while I thank everyone who took it seriously, I'm very disappointed in those that couldn't be arsed to even do one little thing to help this Web site out. Toss in the few "misunderstandings" and "threats of boycott" and I simply suppose that Amiga.org will have to continue on, as is, until it's hacked again (which will happen), at which point I'll simply find something else to do with my time. If -- as it appears -- the vast majority of active members don't really care, why should I?
:-(
Wayne
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Maybe I misunderstood. But my email address is correct. That doesn't need an update then would it?
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Wayne wrote:
Alas, the password changes are not to be.
Despite giving everyone over 1.5 months to comply and update their e-mail addresses, only 8% of you ever did, meaning that if I changed everyone's password, I would get about 1000 people {bleep}ing and screaming because I wouldn't manually reset their password later, or thousands of orphaned posts as I deleted older accounts. Then we'd get a couple of thousand new duplicate accounts being created in violation of our Terms of Service.
Suffice to say that while I thank everyone who took it seriously, I'm very disappointed in those that couldn't be arsed to even do one little thing to help this Web site out. Toss in the few "misunderstandings" and "threats of boycott" and I simply suppose that Amiga.org will have to continue on, as is, until it's hacked again (which will happen), at which point I'll simply find something else to do with my time. If -- as it appears -- the vast majority of active members don't really care, why should I?
:-(
Wayne
My Email is correct though...
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@Wayne
Despite giving everyone over 1.5 months to comply and update their e-mail addresses, only 8% of you ever did
Do you mean that only 8% of addresses have been changed (I'd expect that, given that emails don't change too frequently usually) or that you've worked out somehow that only 8% of the addresses are valid?
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I don't mean "8% of you actually changed your e-mails", I meant "8% of you (out of approximately 3700) had e-mail addresses listed at all". As I said, I truly appreciate those of you who did update the e-mail address, but either we have 3400 pretty much dead accounts -- which would cripple the forums if they were removed -- or we only have less than 200 people who actively check this site at more than a once-every-six-month interval.
I actually figure 200 active users is about the real size of the interested Amiga community anyway. Not suggesting that those who bought AmigaOnes and Pegasos machines aren't Amiga users, simply that between all the feuding, the various "exodus" causing people who seek to destroy the Amiga community, and the intentional splitting of the community Genesi, there are only about 50 real users of this site any more. The rest are merely lurkers.
Either way, the plan to update the passwords would have created mass chaos, so I made the decision late last night not to bother. If Amiga.org is hacked, it's hacked. We pick up the pieces, create something new, and move on.
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If you count the updated emails as the ones that have changed and not ones that are already valid without needing the change I have an idea - if not, disregard this post :-)
To use one of red's ideas why not start a new topic asking people to check their email addresses are valid then post once and only once in the thread to say that it's correct.
Red did it to see how many people actually read a.o a while back and it was popular, there's no reason why it couldn't work in this situation.
After a couple of weeks, or a month you'll be able to get a better idea of the validity of the addresses.
--edit--
Wayne posted as I was typing this... :-)
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Hi Wayne
By emails not being listed, do you mean that they are not on display, as in not publically viewable? Or that there are those who have deleted any semblance of a proper email account in their a.org account? Just curious (and yes I did read your last entire message just then about not going through the password changes).
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that there are those who have deleted any semblance of a proper email account in their a.org account?
Bingo.
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Wayne wrote:
I don't mean "8% of you actually changed your e-mails", I meant "8% of you (out of approximately 3700) had e-mail addresses listed at all". As I said, I truly appreciate those of you who did update the e-mail address, but either we have 3400 pretty much dead accounts -- which would cripple the forums if they were removed -- or we only have less than 200 people who actively check this site at more than a once-every-six-month interval.
I actually figure 200 active users is about the real size of the interested Amiga community anyway. Not suggesting that those who bought AmigaOnes and Pegasos machines aren't Amiga users, simply that between all the feuding, the various "exodus" causing people who seek to destroy the Amiga community, and the intentional splitting of the community Genesi, there are only about 50 real users of this site any more. The rest are merely lurkers.
Forgive me for saying this, but this is cynical and depressed armchair statistics. I am not saying that A.org has a big thriving community, but when I looked up the 3216 members whose last login was more than 100 days ago, I estimated that over 80, perhaps 85% had made less than 5 posts; of those 3216, 2602 (!) had a login date over 200 days ago. Of the 4766 total registered members, 3648 had not logged in in time to see the password change announcement. (I used the 'Members' section for these data; appararently they are not entirely accurate, but for my argument, they suffice.)
Summarising: about 2/3rds of the members are not interested in A.org anyway, otherwise they'd have stuck around and posted more---there is a strong correlation between not logging in and not posting. Claiming that only 8% of the total number of members could be arsed into having an email address listed doesn't sound so bad all of a sudden, does it? I agree that it is still too low a figure, but most people don't see the need to have one anyway---so what if their account gets deleted?
I doubt removing so many lurkers and one- or two-time posters would 'cripple' the forums---I have been an active member for two years now and about 2/3rd of my messages cannot be accessed any longer because the links which should take me to them are broken. As I recall, you would have to search for the articles manually anyway if people asked for them, and I have not seen a 'Stop the )(%*)#(*% requests!' thread from you :-).
In other words, I strongly urge you to look a little more closely at the user base of this site and based on that, devise a plan to prune it. It really is not that hard. You will of course get some PO'ed users, but I doubt it will be the 1000 you think there will be. That would indicate this site has suddenly gained a sh*tload of new, active users: you should be happy when that happens :-).
My $0,02.
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Wayne is right! Amiga.org is vulnarable to attacks and this site exposes it:
Attack vulnatability:
http://www.netdisaster.com/go.php?url=http://www.amiga.org/&mode=ufo
Whipe out possibilities:
http://www.netdisaster.com/go.php?url=http://www.amiga.org/&mode=coffee
Flooding:
http://www.netdisaster.com/go.php?url=http://www.amiga.org/&mode=flood
Bombing:
http://www.netdisaster.com/go.php?mode=meteor&url=http://www.amiga.org
This list goes on!!!! Do something pleaase!!!
hahah sorry for being a lamer but I couldn't resist it being april 1st and all.
Edit: Don't know what browsers it will all work on.
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dont give a damn as long you read the dman dictionary ill be ok.