AW.net revisited : truly disappointed in the maturity level shown recently

Hi Guys,

{sleep deprived rant coming}

Something is bothering me tonight.  So much so that I simply cannot sleep.  Please note that this isn't aimed at anyone here on this site, nor any person specifically.  From what I can tell, the recent announcement of hardware issues with AW.net were handled rather well by our members in response to that thread.  Thank you for surprising me.

I do however see on other sites, namely the similar thread on ANN what I consider to be a seriously bad indicator of the problems in this community.

witness: the thread in question

Note that I'm not slamming Christian, the ANN moderators, or any particular ANN member.  I think that Christian and staff do one hell of a good job with what they're faced with.

What I am severely disappointed with is the childish and petulant attitudes of apparently a great deal of the members there when it comes to respecting others and other sites.  I bring it up here on AO, because rather commonly, these attitudes appear in threads here, and are the same types of childish stupidity that is represented in that thread.  Sadly, it's probably by the exact same people on both sites..

As I said in one of my responses to that thread, the bullyish tactics and red/blue sillyness is the heart of what's wrong with this community.  I openly admit that I'm not an innocent bystander here where harming the community is concerned.  My history in this is a source of constant regret to me and I hope one day to be forgiven, but the damage I did (as relates to my getting screwed over by Genesi) was unintentional, where the damage inflicted by the attitude in the aforementioned thread is simple ignorance caused by a Sun Tsu edict well known by a certain West Point graduate.

I simply find myself simultaneously outraged and revolted that at least 25 different people (or at least nicks/IP's) could have such {bleep} attitudes that they don't realize the harm they're doing, or even worse, don't care....

As I said on ANN, if anyone has a right to dislike Amigaworld.net, it's me.  They did after all stage a documented "coup" against this site in particular, but let's not open up that can of worms, because it's not what I'm kvetching about tonight.  Trouble is, I don't hate AW.net at all.  They saw a niche that they thought needed to be filled, and worked to fill it.  While I disagree with their chosen methods of achieving their initial  success, bravo to them.  

The thread on ANN simply serves to illustrate either jealousy at their success, or petty scarcely-veiled agendas by the typical suspects.

At the heart of it all, I'll have you consider this.  Amiga Inc was incompetent.  Some might even argue (please don't, not again) that they've acted in a fraudulent manner (T-shirts and coupons, etcetera) but!!!!  The problems and division that exists in this community did NOT exist until Bill Buck and Genesi came along, driving the wedge between long-time friends, and apparently creating pawns out of everyone involved (myself included at one point) by throwing money and vague promises around.  

That's right!  I said it!  We have all become PAWNS, whether we're willing or even cognizant of the fact and those who've taken strong stances ON EITHER "SIDE" have done so because it is exactly what Bill Buck wanted.

The fluff job done here is absolutely astounding, because it has been done in such a way that Bill Buck's gotten us, the Amiga community to sweep all the Amiga supporters into a small corner and shout them down any time they say "hello world".  

Bill Buck has, in fact, succeeded in making sure of only one thing, and that's that it's almost impossible for Amiga Incorporated (in their former glory) or even perhaps KMOS to succeed.

One final thought...

I don't care which platform you CHOOSE to support.  I never have.  I've been here to support the Amiga community in any way I can since 1995, and will hopefully continue to be so, but...

Between one rightful parent company that's been run into the ground by absolute incompetence and neglect, and a questionably-operated wannabe parent company run by a duplicitous bully, which is the lesser of two evils?  Which "company" means that we win, and why the {bleep} does it really matter?  Neither company is "in charge" of our destiny.  We are the Amiga community.  Not them.  We have somehow forgotten that....  

Rather than working to support the Amiga -- regardless of how YOU choose to support it, we're now hell bent on acting like kids and tearing each other apart like the good little puppets we've become.  That's not right, and that needs to change for the better.  That being said, good night, and thanks for listening.

[KennyR]

Another rant following.

Wayne, I know what Genesi did to you, at least the outline of it. I am no lover of Buck either, and have said as much many times here. But you are making one seriously f**king HUGE oversimplification if you think he alone is to blame for the hate and division in the community, or even remotely close to it. The Amiga community could do that on its own, and did. The presence of the Amiga Inc/KMOS con artists and the bluntly mendacious Genesi, and their gathering of warring fanatical followers, is simply a symptom of an earlier cause.

If you want to understand that earlier source, you have to understand that it was there before Buck ever re-emerged with Genesi. I am truly dissapointed by your lack of late 90s Amiga history when I myself know about and wasn't even online at the time. There were individuals who were doing their DAMNED BEST to ruin the chances of the Amiga and divide it long before this red/blue issue ever appeared. They damaged reputations, they destroyed sales, they ended whole product lines. There were people who declared fanciful products and offers which destroyed the chances of REAL hardware, REAL opportunities, in favour of their poorly planned, badly envisioned, and eventually vaporous alternatives. People who launched every attack, defamation, and FUD campaign whenever possible against real and present products, often blinded by simple name following, but mostly just plain ego. No wonder most of the sensible part of the Amiga following jumped ship right there, back then, even before the Snoqualmie clowns appeared.

And if you really want to discover the core grain cause of the reason why now those of a certain view were chased into one site where they can be left alone from relentless criticism and trolling, it is mainly because of the people I mentioned above just happened to be the founders of the schismed 'red side' which now many mostly innocently support. A hell of a lot of bitterness remains, and the equally blatant immaturity of certain AmigaWorld moderators in both keeping it going and sharpening it even further with infamously bipartisan and unfair moderation has done nothing but wrench that divide even deeper. I know that their haters aren't doing anything to improve the situation, but they do have a real reason for their anger, at least at the source. Most are simply losers looking for a chance to ridicule someone for puerile fun, but down there, really deep down, there really is righteous indignation.

And that, as you seem to have pointed out yourself when you posted this rant, is not something that will ever really go away, and lead us to all sort of wrong conclusions. Such as pinning all the blame solely upon one of the few people who has made real financial investment into this community, for instance.

[redrumloa]

Whoa, such openess Wayne! I havn't seen a thread this long in a while from you. Looks like you took a bat and swung hard at a wasp nest.

I'm not getting into this one:-)

[MarkTime]

I agree entirely that there is a problem in this community with bullies and counter-bullies...to coin a term.

But, I don't think we'll find the solution to that problem here, in this thread...in this discussion.  If something doesn't work, why try it again...there is nothing new here.  Nothing that hasn't been discussed at length before, and didn't fix anything the last time it was discussed.

there will always be bullies and people lacking in tact...in the end, I think the community will be more positive, when there are more positive things going on.

but while we are discussing tact...a couple things.

DON'T GO ALL CAPS.
Don't suddenly bold a word for emphasis....all these things, including the admission that you have been thinking abou the subject all night without sleeping...all these things are signs that you may not be balanced yourself.

I know...I'm guilty.  And I know it.  But I was reading a site one time, about, how not to write a letter to a judge...and how going all caps and bolding things makes you look like a friggin' lunatic to a judge...and it hit me...

yes, a judge is more conservative than most, and perhaps a bit on the old side and not quite as hip and in-tune as the rest of us...but everyone, knows a rant when they read one...in the end, we don't want our leaders to be ranters.

[Argo]

We are or could be one of Amiga's (the platform) greatest assets. We are also it's greatest enemy.

[FastRobPlus]

redrumloa wrote:
Whoa, such openess Wayne! I havn't seen a thread this long in a while from you. Looks like you took a bat and swung hard at a wasp nest.

I'm not getting into this one:-)

It's hard for me to ever resist posting, but I don't know what AWN is, so I guess I'll leave it alone too.

[KennyR]

Hooligan didn't exactly put his point across tactfully, so let me try to say what he meant, more rationally, about this:

Bill Buck has, in fact, succeeded in making sure of only one thing, and that's that it's almost impossible for Amiga Incorporated (in their former glory) or even perhaps KMOS to succeed.

This is, without a doubt, one of the most misled and naive statements I've ever read from the keyboard of Wayne, especially considering his experience. At the height of Amiga Inc, Genesi didn't even exist, Buck wasn't around, and McEwen was haemmoraging money on an unoriginal product with no remote connection to the Amiga. To state incompetence is an understatement. The chances that Amiga Inc. ever had a chance of getting out a product are remote, and even if they had, it wouldn't have done any thing for the Amiga that Wayne is so proud to support.

[Argo]

Please take the blinders off. Wayne's rant was not blue vs. red. It's not about what Amiga, Inc. has or hasn't done for good or bad. Nor is it about Genesi and any specific ills they have caused. It's about us, the Amiga Community, and how as a group how we've been fractured by various external influences vying for control. We've been like young children caught in a battle between two parents in the middle of a divorce. One trying to play us of the other. In the process, decreasing the odds that either will succeed.
It's time to open our eyes and realize that we are not the pawns of someones folly. We have a say. The situation is not helped by the vocal few that choose to post their opinions in the most juvinile way. That only hurts us all. What is to be gained by putting down AmigaWorld.net, Genesi, Amiga Inc., ANN, etc. Nothing. Reasoned discource, on topic of course, might get more accomplished. We may not all agree, but we're all here for a common reason. We should do our utmost to further that common interest that we share  and not let others twist us to work contrary to that.
Lastly, this is a rant. An opinion post by Wayne and colored by Wayne's own past experiences. It must be read through those tinted glasses. His experience with Genesi has been and, I can only guess, still is a very bad one. He feels used and betrayed. How would you feel? Angry, maybe? Some dealings with Amiga, Inc. have also been unpleasant in the past too. Maybe KMOS will be better. Who knows. That's not the point of his post. Sadly, that seems to be all that some that have posted can see. So, I'm locking this.
It would be nice if people could see beyond Red Blue.

Thank you Argo.  It's nice to know that at least someone gets it.  I expected no less than what's been posted by Kenny, but your post is appreciated.  I really wouldn't have locked the thread, but since -- per Kenny's naive replies -- there is no getting through to some people, I guess it's for the best.

My only real point is that we, as a community, have been fractured exactly along the lines that the bullies wanted, and it's a sad thing to see people like Kenny wanting to ignore everything in the desire of continuing the fight.  

As I said, Amiga Inc was run, and destroyed by incompetence.  I'm very well aware of their history in the late 90's, moreso than someone like Kenny since I was actually there and even involved in the process to a degree (in the Gateway era) BUT.... until the knife was thrust through the heart of the community by Bill Buck, we did NOT have the cutthroat hatred that currently exists between members of the community today.  That is a simple fact, it is simply true no matter who points it out, and it is inescapable, even by the blind like KennyR.

We are the Amiga community.  We are a large part of why the Amiga is where it is today, both in the positive and the negative aspects.  We are the reason people even remember what an Amiga was, and our childish actions are a very large part of why the new Amiga hasn't succeeded as of today.  In short, the actions in that ANN thread -- kicking AW.net when they were down -- combined with the short-sighted replies of KennyR in this thread simply illustrate what an embarrassment this community has become to itself, if not the world.  Not sure I want to be a part of something so embarrassing.  I'd much rather work to remove the knife from the soul of the community, unite the major webmasters, then work towards a better future.  

Unfortunately as long as the attitudes of people like KennyR (using him solely as an example since he was first to jump in) exist here, harping on everything BUT the problem, making a positive change for the future really isn't possible.  Sad really.

Re-locking the thread out of respect for the moderator staff.