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Offline Michele31415Topic starter

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Does Install erase a disk?
« on: September 09, 2021, 08:33:40 PM »
In attempting to restore my hard disk fs3: from a USB stick to the SCSI2HD on my A2000, it somehow became unbootable.  I can still boot from floppy and the hard disk appears on the WB 3.1 screen and I can see all the restored files there but it won't boot.

So if I say "install fs3:" will that erase all the files I copied from the USB stick?  I'm asking because it took over two hours to do the copy the first time, mostly because every 10 files or so I got a pop-up saying "bad sector" on the USB stick (but then it worked fine after selecting Retry).  I'd rather not have to go through that again.  It would be nice if Install wrote a boot block and nothing else.
Active: B2000 4.4, A2630, GVP 2000 HC+8, DKB 2632, SCSI2SD, Gotek, Deneb USB, XSurf 3cc, CD ROM, Megachip 2000, ECS Agnus, Denise, OS 3.9, GVP Spectrum EGS 28/24, Silicon Springs GOMF
Retired: A2088, 8-Up, A2090a, Oktagon 2008, Kitchen Sync
Busted: A2091
 

Offline TribbleSmasher

Re: Does Install erase a disk?
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2021, 08:38:14 PM »
It should not work but don't even try it. Install writes a bootblock to a floppy disk or thelike. HDs have RDBs, so you would not make it bootable with this.
 

Offline Michele31415Topic starter

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Re: Does Install erase a disk?
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2021, 09:51:23 PM »
Oh!  Well that's really good to know - I'm glad I asked first.  So is there any way to install an OS on a hard disk without affecting the files already on the disk?
Active: B2000 4.4, A2630, GVP 2000 HC+8, DKB 2632, SCSI2SD, Gotek, Deneb USB, XSurf 3cc, CD ROM, Megachip 2000, ECS Agnus, Denise, OS 3.9, GVP Spectrum EGS 28/24, Silicon Springs GOMF
Retired: A2088, 8-Up, A2090a, Oktagon 2008, Kitchen Sync
Busted: A2091
 

Offline TribbleSmasher

Re: Does Install erase a disk?
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2021, 10:31:14 PM »
There a several steps to this. First you have to find out why (if) it doesn't boot. The OS files could still be present but maybe your machine catched a virus or something.
We don't have enough informations about your system atm to diagnose this problem.
 

Online Thomas

Re: Does Install erase a disk?
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2021, 10:23:14 AM »
it won't boot

That's a rather bad description of the problem.

A harddisk partition is marked bootable in the partition table (using HDToolbox or the like). It does not need a boot block. And it will boot no matter if there are files on it or not. If there are no files, you get an empty DOS prompt.

So you should have a closer look where it gets stuck. If you see the insert-disk screen, check with HDToolbox if the partition is marked bootable.

If you get an empty DOS prompt although you think all the right files are installed, check with HDToolbox if there are multiple partitions marked as bootable and if the one you want to boot from has the highest priority.

If you get a DOS prompt with an error message, tell us what the message is.

If it ends with an empty screen with only the "Workbench screen" bar and no icons, boot from floppy, edit startup-sequence of the harddisk and remove the EndCLI command at the end. Then reboot from harddisk and look for error messages.

If something else happens, tell us.

Offline Michele31415Topic starter

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Re: Does Install erase a disk?
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2021, 05:19:48 PM »
You're absolutely right.  Here is hopefully a better description.  I have a 1 GB disk defined as LUN 0 and named FS3: on my 16 GB SD card in my SCSI2HD connected to a GVP HC+8 SCSI contyroller.  There's also a 2 GB hard disk and a CD-ROM on the same SCSI daisy chain.

Originally, I booted 3.1 from floppy and installed 3.1 on FS3:.  That worked fine.  If I just powered up the machine, it booted directly to OS 3.1 on FS3:.  Then I reloaded my backup of the original FS3: hard drive from a USB stick onto the new SCSI2SD FS3: by saying "copy <usb-name> FS3: all".  Took about two hours.

Now when I try to boot from the SCSI2SD, the disk activity LED flashes around for a few seconds as usual but then all activity stops and I see nothing but a light gray screen.  If I try to reboot using CTL-A-A, I get more disk activity and then the red error box with "Software failure.  Press left mouse button to continue.  Error: 0000 0008  Task: 00212DA0".  At this point I have to power-cycle the machine to even be able to boot from my 3.1 floppy.  That works, and an FS3: drawer icon appears on the workbench screen and I can access all the files there.

HDToolBox said there are "no drives in system".  The window for the drives was empty and all the buttons below were grayed out except for Help and Exit.  So I changed scsi.device to gvpscsi.device in the icon's info.  Now it shows the drives on the SCSI2HD.  But how do I tell if it thinks they're bootable?

If I try to boot FS3: using the "boot with no startup-sequence" option from the preboot diagnostic screen, it just goes to the ROM OS screen.

One other possibly relevant point - the USB backup was a 3.9 OS.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2021, 10:35:10 PM by Michele31415 »
Active: B2000 4.4, A2630, GVP 2000 HC+8, DKB 2632, SCSI2SD, Gotek, Deneb USB, XSurf 3cc, CD ROM, Megachip 2000, ECS Agnus, Denise, OS 3.9, GVP Spectrum EGS 28/24, Silicon Springs GOMF
Retired: A2088, 8-Up, A2090a, Oktagon 2008, Kitchen Sync
Busted: A2091
 

Online Thomas

Re: Does Install erase a disk?
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2021, 01:34:08 PM »
Originally, I booted 3.1 from floppy and installed 3.1 on FS3:.  That worked fine.  If I just powered up the machine, it booted directly to OS 3.1 on FS3:. 

So there's nothing wrong with partitions and boot blocks and so on.

Quote
Then I reloaded my backup of the original FS3: hard drive from a USB stick onto the new SCSI2SD FS3: by saying "copy <usb-name> FS3: all".  Took about two hours.

Now when I try to boot from the SCSI2SD, the disk activity LED flashes around for a few seconds as usual but then all activity stops and I see nothing but a light gray screen.  If I try to reboot using CTL-A-A, I get more disk activity and then the red error box with "Software failure.  Press left mouse button to continue.  Error: 0000 0008  Task: 00212DA0".

It's rather with the files you copy to the disk.

How much do you trust that backup if it gives you "bad block" errors all over the place? Are you confident that the files are not corrupted?

Was this backup made from the same machine you try to restore it to? With the same CPU, the same RAM, the same expansions and the same harddisks?


Quote
If I try to boot FS3: using the "boot with no startup-sequence" option from the preboot diagnostic screen, it just goes to the ROM OS screen.

What do you mean by "ROM OS screen"? This one: http://www.gregdonner.org/workbench/images/wb_31k.gif ?

Do you say, you can enter the early startup menu, see your FS3 partition there, click on boot or boot without startup-sequence and then it tells you there is no harddisk any more?


Quote
One other possibly relevant point - the USB backup was a 3.9 OS.

Yes, that's relevant. OS 3.9 has a set of modules which they call ROM update. These modules are loaded after power-on and then activated by an immediate reboot. That second boot (and all subsequent reboots) can behave completely different than the first one because of this ROM update.

And IMHO what you describe about software failure after Ctrl-A-A sounds just like that.




Offline Michele31415Topic starter

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Re: Does Install erase a disk?
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2021, 10:27:04 PM »
By ROM OS screen I mean the window that says "AmigaDOS ROM Operating System" and just has a "1>" prompt on it.

I can't say for certain the USB stick files are OK.  I do know that I was able to read that stick on my PC without any errors.  I checked a random sample of files that I copied to the new FS3: and they looked OK.  But clearly, that copy operation trashed the OS, either due to some bad files or because the backup was OS 3.9 and the OS on FS3: was 3.1.

So I decided to format one of my unused disks on the SCSI2SD and copied FS3: to that as a backup.  Then I tried reinstalling 3.1 on FS3:.  It said it worked OK but when I rebooted, it threw all sorts of errors like "Unable to find Sound", "Unable to find SCSI LUN 6" and "Volume not registered", and then went to the Software Error screen.

At this point I decided it wasn't worth trying to recover this drive.  I just reformatted it and will do a clean OS 3.1 install from floppy on it, then install AmiCDFS from floppy.  That will let me read the OS 3.9 CD and do that upgrade.  Then I can selectively copy back the non-system directories from my copy of FS3:

UPDATE:

As long as I was reformatting I decided to increase the size of FS3: from 1 GB to 4 GB using UDToolbox.  Then I started the Format operation.  The disk activity light started flickering and all looked good.  But I just checked again - the LED is still flickering but it's been three hours and the progress bar is still stuck on zero.  Does it really take this long to format a big SD disk or is something else wrong now?
Active: B2000 4.4, A2630, GVP 2000 HC+8, DKB 2632, SCSI2SD, Gotek, Deneb USB, XSurf 3cc, CD ROM, Megachip 2000, ECS Agnus, Denise, OS 3.9, GVP Spectrum EGS 28/24, Silicon Springs GOMF
Retired: A2088, 8-Up, A2090a, Oktagon 2008, Kitchen Sync
Busted: A2091
 

Offline TribbleSmasher

Re: Does Install erase a disk?
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2021, 11:00:22 PM »
Never do a full format. Quick format is sufficient.
Also making the boot partition larger than 2GB can cause severe problems.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2021, 11:01:47 PM by TribbleSmasher »
 

Offline Michele31415Topic starter

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Re: Does Install erase a disk?
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2021, 07:35:08 PM »
Oh *DUH*!  I knew that but somehow ended up clicking on Format instead of Quick Format.  Quick format worked just fine (and quickly).  The new disk shows up as 2 GB.  I loaded WB 3.1 from floppy, rebooted and all was still good.  I installed ASimCDFS from floppy and then ran the OS 3.9 Installer from CD.  It said it completed successfully and that I should reboot.

But when I did - we're back to the "Software error" in a red box again.  I don't get it - this is the same machine as the original install.  The only difference is that I now have the GVP HC+8 SCSI controller and a SCSI2SD instead of the A2091 and an actual Quantum hard drive.

I was able to reboot using the 3.9 Emergency Rescue Disk but it's not clear what to do next.  Running info shows that it thinks DH0: (what I'm calling FS3:) is "not a DOS disk".

I'm wondering - since a clean 3.9 install from CD fails the same way as my attempted USB backup restore (which contains 3.9) maybe something else is going on here, like the GVP controller.  I know it uses its own gvpscsi.device instead of scsi.device.  Could that be why this isn't working?
Active: B2000 4.4, A2630, GVP 2000 HC+8, DKB 2632, SCSI2SD, Gotek, Deneb USB, XSurf 3cc, CD ROM, Megachip 2000, ECS Agnus, Denise, OS 3.9, GVP Spectrum EGS 28/24, Silicon Springs GOMF
Retired: A2088, 8-Up, A2090a, Oktagon 2008, Kitchen Sync
Busted: A2091
 

Offline kolla

Re: Does Install erase a disk?
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2021, 07:44:04 AM »
There’s a bug in these newish OS releases (OS 3.1.4 and I suppose this so called “Workbench 3.2” too) that if you select more than one NDOS partition and pick “format” from the menu, the “quick format” is only available in one of the format windows that pops up, in the others it is grayed out. Maybe that happened to you?
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---
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Online Thomas

Re: Does Install erase a disk?
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2021, 08:56:53 AM »
But when I did - we're back to the "Software error" in a red box again.  I don't get it - this is the same machine as the original install.  The only difference is that I now have the GVP HC+8 SCSI controller and a SCSI2SD instead of the A2091 and an actual Quantum hard drive.

Seems like we'll have to go into details now.

Can you please run this program and add the report as an attachment here: https://thomas-rapp.homepage.t-online.de/downloads/hddreport.lha

After that edit Startup-Sequence of FS3. Add

set echo on

as the very first line. Save it and reboot. Try to see which command is executed last when the Software Error appears.

Offline Michele31415Topic starter

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Re: Does Install erase a disk?
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2021, 05:06:02 PM »
No, it was just operator error.  I saw both the Format and Quick Format buttons and somehow wasn't thinking that Quick Format was the one I wanted.  No harm done though.  I canceled the unending Format, did it over again with a Quick Format and that worked OK.
Active: B2000 4.4, A2630, GVP 2000 HC+8, DKB 2632, SCSI2SD, Gotek, Deneb USB, XSurf 3cc, CD ROM, Megachip 2000, ECS Agnus, Denise, OS 3.9, GVP Spectrum EGS 28/24, Silicon Springs GOMF
Retired: A2088, 8-Up, A2090a, Oktagon 2008, Kitchen Sync
Busted: A2091
 

Offline Michele31415Topic starter

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Re: Does Install erase a disk?
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2021, 05:30:15 PM »
Quote
Can you please run this program and add the report as an attachment here: https://thomas-rapp.homepage.t-online.de/downloads/hddreport.lha

After that edit Startup-Sequence of FS3. Add

set echo on
Thanks - got it!  The problem right now is that there is no FS3: anymore.  When I boot from the OS 3.9 emergency disk, FS3's icon doesn't even appear on the WB screen.  I have to go to HDToolbox to find it (SCSI address 0).  Should I reformat it and load OS 3.1 back on it and then run your program?  (I may not be able to get to this today though - I have a bunch of errands to run).
Active: B2000 4.4, A2630, GVP 2000 HC+8, DKB 2632, SCSI2SD, Gotek, Deneb USB, XSurf 3cc, CD ROM, Megachip 2000, ECS Agnus, Denise, OS 3.9, GVP Spectrum EGS 28/24, Silicon Springs GOMF
Retired: A2088, 8-Up, A2090a, Oktagon 2008, Kitchen Sync
Busted: A2091
 

Online Thomas

Re: Does Install erase a disk?
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2021, 06:41:01 PM »
When I boot from the OS 3.9 emergency disk, FS3's icon doesn't even appear on the WB screen.

This seems to match the other symptoms. What if you boot from the 3.1 Workbench disk?


Quote
I have to go to HDToolbox to find it (SCSI address 0). 

But the partition is still there?


Quote
Should I reformat it and load OS 3.1 back on it and then run your program?

No, that's not necessary. If HDToolbox finds the partition, then HDDReport should find it, too. Just run it.

As a first try to fix the issue, boot from a floppy disk from where you see the FS3 drive (WB 3.1 probably), go to the Devs folder of FS3 and rename the file AmigaOS ROM Update to something else.

 
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