Registering Interest for AmigaOne X1000

[drHirudo]

snip

Haha, this thread wouldn't have been complete if Fab didn't join talking about the OWB and how advanced it is.

I hope OWB is not the reason for MorphOS 3 not being out yet.


Just like TimberWolf is not the reason for AmigaOS 4.2 is not out yet.

[vox]

just FYI, at least with the 'first contact' systems, you had to purchase the OS license additionally. the free copy of OS4 is the copy of OS4.2 when it ships.

-- eliyahu

True and not true. Base price for X1000 doesn`t include the OS 4.1 licence to make promised 1700GBP price tag which is what Trevor gets but excludes everything else ... (excludes VAT, shipping and the OS, as well as more RAM as 2GB was first promise). But in reality for price of one OS licence you get both OS 4.1.5 now and OS 4.2 in the future.

This is just made to make system base price look cheaper and might change with final system just because OS 4.2 should be done by then as well as drivers for motherboard, rendering sound and network PCI cards not needed. This could open the space to make system a bit cheaper, or at least with OS included. That, or higher order rate for batch. But not too much anyway.

But one thing is right: $3000 price calculated for X1000 includes VAT, AmigaOS and shipping while cheap ebay prices of MacMinis exclude shipping and MorphOS licence making not such a huge difference, rendering ratio almost to half.

Also, the trick is in comparing new and used hardware. Surely, you could get 4-5 SAM 440 766-800Mhz systems used for price of X1000 running AmigaOS 4 but they would not perform not even close to it. But maybe 3-4 A1 or Peg2 systems that would perform 20-30% slower.

But what if people want expand ability, and ability to use dual core in the future and only X1000 offers it?

[vox]

If you go that way, MorphOS team also bugfixed 2.x and developped 3.x at the same time. Many of the developers of MorphOS team (including myself) have "pet" projects/applications beyond the core of MorphOS (that sometimes get integrated to MorphOS, course). And actually, Odyssey is part of MorphOS distribution.  

Haven`t heard of anything new after 2.7, and 3 was announced afterwards. OK, having similar situation should help the understanding why some things are not yet done. MorphOS is done better, surely, but has longer career of development and no frozen time of court case. We are all looking forward to see how OS 4.2 (and MorphOS 3) will improve and yes, will difference increase or decrease at least on Peg2 (I don`t expect OS 4 to become superior soon).

It is a said fact that beyond Blizzard cards (MOS 1.x, AOS 4.1) and Peg 2 (MOS 2.x, AOS 4.1) there are no more PPC systems supported by both.
Or even better OS4 Emu and kind of MOS Emu wrappers or some code trade-offs (e.g. Ambient for OS4). Having OS4 reached MUI4 compatibility was a great thing and brought MUI OWB (thanks for OWB development!)

If 68k compatibility has to be dropped, then going x86 is a much better solution, don't you think?  

Woud like both to evolve to x86 board with RadeonHD cards and some newer Sound Blaster. At least MorphOS team and Hyperion would prove to be software only companies looking to offer OS to wider hardware base. But meanwhile, buying what is available is only option.

[QUOTEAs for SMP, assuming it would be possible without breaking everything and/or having bad performance, MorphOS would also have another potential
target with the dual G4 boards for PowerMacs, or the dual/quad G5s.[/QUOTE]

Would love to see MorphOS (and OS4, PPC Linux, AROS) using Mac G5.
Cheap and mighty!

[takemehomegrandma]

@ drHirudo

After everything that has been said in this thread (and even illustrated with pictures) about money and "worth for money", it's actually rather amusing to see you trying playing ball in "the numbers game" this way! :lol: Nothing you say, no matter what numbers you put up here for comparison, will make the A1X1K look like a good buy, or even *sane*...

So with 3000 USD, you can buy - 3000/147,94 - 20,27 MOS licenses

But I honestly think most people will settle with just one! :p I'm sorry to say, but you seem to have *entirely* missed the point...

just FYI, at least with the 'first contact' systems, you had to purchase the OS license additionally.

See...? And the MorphOS price for licenses for some older HW is said to go down... *in the future*! (Just like on OS4: everything will be good, and everything will be supported... *in the future* :lol:)

[takemehomegrandma]

But in reality for price of one OS licence you get both OS 4.1.5 now and OS 4.2 in the future.

Isn't that pretty much exactly what eliyahu said? :lol:

But what if people want expand ability

Plenty of room in a PowerMac...

and ability to use dual core in the future and only X1000 offers it?

So does the PowerMac!

But again, Amiga is a single core system, its design prevents true SMP, and it can't have true memory protection, and it isn't 64-bit either. *If* exploring these features would be the goal for the OS developers, then why on earth would they do it on a A1X1K? Why continue the PPC path at all? If you are to break the "Amiga" anyway, why not do it on some other, much better architecture? Even ARM seems to beat PPC! Performance wise, and from a desktop Point of View, x86 is even more attractive.

Isn't a platform migration the natural thing to do at that point? There is no "Power" in PowerPC, not in the year 2012 and beyond! ARM and/or x86, but not PPC! Since those features would require a break from the past, why continue with PPC at all? Why not bring the new platform onto a modern architecture? For example, if MorphOS developers would want to start exploring 64-bit support for the future (as suggested by Fab in his presentation of MorphOS future), why would they do that on a *dead* G5 platform (or PA6T for that matter)? I mean, if the legacy is to be broken anyway, why not migrate to greener pastures while you are at it?

[itix]

@drHirudo

FYI Odyssey a.k.a. MUIOWB is the most popular browser for Amiga.

[billyfish]

@drHirudo

FYI Odyssey a.k.a. MUIOWB is the most popular browser for Amiga.

Really?? I think it's a fine piece of work and hats off to Fab and co for it, but for example netsurf-m68k has 13760 downloads. Don't you think that there are more classic systems (especially including amikit, etc.) and consequently it's 68k-based browsers that are in use the most. Checking the logs of places such as here, amigaword, amigans, will give a better indication I guess.

[billyfish]

Isn't a platform migration the natural thing to do at that point? There is no "Power" in PowerPC, not in the year 2012 and beyond! ARM and/or x86, but not PPC! Since those features would require a break from the past, why continue with PPC at all? Why not bring the new platform onto a modern architecture? For example, if MorphOS developers would want to start exploring 64-bit support for the future (as suggested by Fab in his presentation of MorphOS future), why would they do that on a *dead* G5 platform (or PA6T for that matter)? I mean, if the legacy is to be broken anyway, why not migrate to greener pastures while you are at it?

It depends upon what your starting point is. Bear in mind x86 is little-endian and AFAIK arm processors are bi-endian.

I still haven't got a simple answer on why you care so much if someone buys an x1000. It's their money and to be honest if you turn my question on its head, why do you think they should care what your opinion is? You're happy with MorphOS on PowerMacs? Great, simply enjoy it then. I pity your poor wife/gf/partner if they have the audacity to pick a different brand of orange juice to the one you like and you bang on about it like this for 20 years! :-)

[itix]

Really?? I think it's a fine piece of work and hats off to Fab and co for it, but for example netsurf-m68k has 13760 downloads. Don't you think that there are more classic systems (especially including amikit, etc.) and consequently it's 68k-based browsers that are in use the most. Checking the logs of places such as here, amigaword, amigans, will give a better indication I guess.

Yes you might be right on that. Although... never mind, lets discuss it on another thread another time

[vox]

Isn't a platform migration the natural thing to do at that point? There is no "Power" in PowerPC, not in the year 2012 and beyond! ARM and/or x86, but not PPC! Since those features would require a break from the past, why continue with PPC at all? Why not bring the new platform onto a modern architecture? For example, if MorphOS developers would want to start exploring 64-bit support for the future (as suggested by Fab in his presentation of MorphOS future), why would they do that on a *dead* G5 platform (or PA6T for that matter)? I mean, if the legacy is to be broken anyway, why not migrate to greener pastures while you are at it?

There is still enough power in POWER in 2012, wouldn`t dismiss something living and developing. Is it a top leader? NO. Is it developed and usable. YES. Somehow just like AOS and MOS :-)

Forgot to mention X1000 is first platform to offer 64-bit transition path to AmigaOS. In my opinion, its more likely both advanced features might first be used on existing PPC systems being X1000 and likely G5 for MorphOS then we know of any real x86 transition.

Surely, would be happy at least to see some PPC emulation box for masculine and overpowered x86 multicore systems before the transition could be over. So all those arguing FOR the transition should think of bounty to get Apple Rosetta PPC emulator or to fund QEMMU / PearPC or some "Amithlon" kind of emulation box as emulation solution before the full port OR a realistic estimation would be what time is needed for other CPU port.

OS should develop meanwhile, and Hyperion decided to team up with new hardware. Hope they will do the net top as portable Miggy and low cost one, so the range can be from reasonable to heavy priced X1000.

If development should be continued on PPC and SMP introduced, next cheap and mighty thing are Playstations 3: soon will be replaced by PS4 and have enough horsepower to be a good computer.

[Fats]

Didnt you piss off OS4 core developers on that Timberwolf thread at AWN...?

I think we are still on speaking terms. At least I am.
But then I am a weird person.

greets,
Staf.

[Iggy]

I think we are still on speaking terms. At least I am.
But then I am a weird person.

greets,
Staf.

Maybe you are, but I'm huddling in a corner of my home waiting for two seriously pissed off Germans to knock on my door.

[Iggy]

Forgot to mention X1000 is first platform to offer 64-bit transition path to AmigaOS. In my opinion, its more likely both advanced features might first be used on existing PPC systems being X1000 and likely G5 for MorphOS then we know of any real x86 transition.

Maybe, but for now you're going to see these processors running in 32bit mode.

[amigacooke]

Isn't a platform migration the natural thing to do at that point? There is no "Power" in PowerPC, not in the year 2012 and beyond! ARM and/or x86, but not PPC! Since those features would require a break from the past, why continue with PPC at all? Why not bring the new platform onto a modern architecture? For example, if MorphOS developers would want to start exploring 64-bit support for the future (as suggested by Fab in his presentation of MorphOS future), why would they do that on a *dead* G5 platform (or PA6T for that matter)? I mean, if the legacy is to be broken anyway, why not migrate to greener pastures while you are at it?

Clearly the only sensible option is to migrate to modern operating systems with plenty of software support. Take your choice Windows, OS X or Linux.

[Fats]

Maybe you are, but I'm huddling in a corner of my home waiting for two seriously pissed off Germans to knock on my door.

Iggy, sometimes you also act a little bit weird. You know ?


Staf.

[Kesa]

Wait. If X means 10 in roman and K is 1000 does'nt A1X1K expand out to Amiga 10 1000?