Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga Hardware News => Topic started by: Chathurawind on March 23, 2002, 05:10:00 AM
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Vesalia (http://www.vesalia.de/) are now taking preorders for bPlan's Pegasos (http://www.bplan-gmbh.de/news/pegasos_e.html) motherboards! 650 Euros will get you this piece of impressive and magnificent looking (http://www.bplan-gmbh.de/gfx/pegasos/pegasos_art_e.html) hardware including a PPC 750CEx CPU at 600 MHz, MorphOS, Linux and German VAT.
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not sure why you would buy this when the real amiga the amiga one is out soon
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Understandable marketing move. Eyetech get out there in the marketplace with a working product which builds optimism.
Others
* Fear losing the marketplace after the immense fud campaign that was partly successfull last year ( caused one hell of a backlash ) now Eyetech are actually getting working boards in the hands of users.
* Want to get in on the preorder bonanza.
* Artificially puff up the AmigaONE price in their store and one wonders why.
* Waffle on about dual processor options when there are no cards for it yet - just a vague committment. Plus it will cost you.
Eyetech and AmigaOS4 have the momentum now - just do not p*ss it up.
Dont get me wrong, Ill consider Pegasos as well when it comes out. But given that I have far too many computers in my study at the moment anyway and it will need its bios key ( no doubt the warez lobby will provide a work around for that ) et al its too little too late.
If the Bplan/MorphOS campaign had actually released a hardware and software option in GA form before now I would have gone with that.
No doubt we will see more comparisons of apples with elephants ( i.e. marketing ) before this is settled.
Dave.
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>Eyetech get out there in the marketplace with a working product which builds optimism
Dreamer. When do you expect an OS4 version for the AmigaOne? You have read Thomas Frieden's comment in the OS4 list?
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OS4 will be out soon! Period!
Coder
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Excuse me? Both Pegasos and AmigaONE are
using the same chipset, the same components
etc... if you notice the original Pegasos prototypes you'll notice that it's a redesigned
TerronCX. If you noticed the northbridge,
you'll see that it's the Articia S.
The difference is that the pegasos has been
totally redesined, while the AmigaOne is
a TerronCX... :-)
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Dreamer? No. The AmigaONE ( hardware project ) is complete and working. Ill happily be using it with Linux PPC until AmigaOS4 comes out which is a seperable product. Just because the ability to perform linear seperation is way beyond your perceptrons doesnt mean it is others ;-)
The difference is that the pegasos has been
totally redesined, while the AmigaOne is
a TerronCX...
Second - yeah thats right - how about you go read the AmigaONE FAQ on Eyetechs site about the TerronCX or do you prefer to spread more FUD....
Dave.
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>OS4 will be out soon! Period!
For the Classic Amiga sure. But I'm confident that they'll adapt OS4 to the A1 in less then a month.
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>The AmigaONE ( hardware project ) is complete and working
I haven not seen it working, did you? I already saw a Pegasos running AmigaOS software last November.
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Shut up. That's not true.
I think there this forum should be moderated when lies are put in here.
José
(can't log in my ups's power is finishing:))
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I haven not seen it working, did you? I already saw a Pegasos running AmigaOS software last November.
1. Wow Eyetech and Hyperion really have you folks on the run again dont they?
2. Running natively, running UAE or running MorphOS ( != AmigaOS )?
Keep up the FUD, youll get another backlash on your hands soon enough which will drive more sales for Eyetech. I used to sit on the fence about this lot until the debates on ann, moobunny and #morphos got to the point where the clueless were way overcompensating and flaming anyone who tried to discuss any points with them. I dont even think the worse ones really knew what they were talking about they were just banding together to bully.
If that lot are going the morphos/bplan route watch me and other moderates go the opposite direction. If only I could persuade Shawn and Rue to go the MorphOS route now too ;-)
Dave.
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The Pegasos seems great too. But I am an Amiga freak. :-D If Pegasos was out far before the AmigaOne I would have bought it. But I still might buy one anyway later on.
In about 4 weeks I will be running my AmigaOne with (pretty sure) the beta of OS4. Then I will be able to provide some feedback.
Coder
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Now the race is on.
If its Pegasos+MorphOS vs AOne+AOS4
both will fail and i'm gone stick with Amithlon.
If its Pegasos+MorphOS+AOS4 vs AOne+AOS4
AOS4 will win and the Pegasos would be my favourite (G4 should be easier
here).This is the most liklely option as Hyperion allready stated the would
support any suitable PPC-system. As i understand the AOS4-flash-rom
will only be needed in the OEM-version and not in the "full" version.
If its Pegasos+MorphOS+AOS4 vs AOne+AOS4+MorphOS
i would still think of AOS4 as the most likely winner but its gonna
be a hot fight.
(MorphOS on AOne isn't very likely to happen IMO)
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Also AmigaOneG3-SE can be ordered from vesalia.
Anonymous: AmigaOneG3-SE is not TeronCX, do some homework before you post. (the design was ordered from the same company which designed TeronCX, but the specs are different, the board is different)
Btw. is there anywhere a picture about pegasos & IBM750CXe chip?
I´m not going to preorder anything, but when the products exist, I might buy both (if they are both legal in every aspect).
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ARGH! The same old tired flames!
Flame #1: "Stop dreaming, OS4 will never come out."
Kenny Says: Huh? Whaaa? OS4 is a certainty now. I think people that say this need dragged kicking an screaming into the 21st century.
Flame #2: A1 is just a reused board, Pegasos is redesigned from scratch.
Kenny Says: Who the f*ck cares? It works, doesn't it?
Flame #3: PegaSOS isn't an Amiga!
Kenny Says: Isn't it? If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck... If it has the ability to natively run an Amiga OS, it's an Amiga. Period. End of conversation.
Flame #4: I really need that CPU slot on the pegasos...A1 is just crap because it doesn't have one.
Kenny Says: The A1200 has no (dedicated) CPU slot and is still by far the most popular Amiga. A cpu card could be fitted on a PCI board or attached in another way. As well as the fact that you ain't likely to get many CPU boards in the future, things being as they are. Why don't you just hang a cow bell on your machine and say how great it is? If you think you need the CPU slot, go and buy the Pegasos. No-one will physically stop you. Well, maybe. ;)
Flame #5: Pegasos is being made by people who really know about the Amiga. A1 is just an old board being made by some Chinese people.
Kenny Says: My taste in computers is like my taste in women. I don't need a a pedigree and a list of their past. It really, really, doesn't matter. I don't care. It's certainly no basis to flame the A1, and you know it!
Flame #6: Your OS sucks, mine rules!
Kenny Says: Erm, maybe you should get out more often, maybe meet a nice girl and have picnics in the sun. People who say the above should really stop masturbating in darkened rooms and eating junk food - not that there's anything wrong in that, of course ;) (in moderation) ;)
The Amiga community needs more of these reality checks. You're starting to sound like kids arguing over a lump of playdough ("Its a rocket ship!" "No, its a horsey!" - punch).
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It's a partly redesigned teroncx, using the same
bios (seems that hyperion will replace this). :-o
I will not spread any more stuff I shouldn't..
And believe me... It's not FUD.
Plus, you didn't get my point... My point was
that that guys said that the Amiga ONE is an
Amiga while pegasos is not...
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amigamad, dont mean to byte, but thats pathetic, why exactly is the AmigaOne the real amiga?
Its NOT. The only real Amiga is AmigaOS, because its an Amiga Inc product and its being ported from the old source.
AmigaOne has nothing to do with the Amiga except that its only one of the many hardware platforms that can run AmigaOS... get used to it :)
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I like Kenny :)
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Thanks :-D
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Who said that? I must need to reread this thread :-)
The AmigaONE is the AmigaONE. AmigaOS is AmigaOS. MorphOS is MorphOS etc.
Compatibility or otherwise of any of these pretenders is yet to be tested. Frankly I dont really care - I have made my choice and that is AmigaONE + Linux and later if its any good AmigaONE + AmigaOS.
As for this:
It's a partly redesigned teroncx, using the same
bios (seems that hyperion will replace this).
I fail to see the point in you bringing it up in the first place. Is this somehow supposed to make something "bad"??
Those that some seem to hold aloft as the saviours of the Amiga vision - e.g. ex PhaseV employees/owners seem to want to rewrite history or do you want me to repeat all the angst I had to get hold of my PowerUP board and the ensuing damage done to the marketplace by poor delivery, poor after sales, the kernel issue etc etc.
From day one the PowerUP boards had a waiting list numbered in the months - demand way outstripping supply. Now we have TWO revisions of AmigaOS that support PowerPC, one official the other "not" and TWO PPC boards yet I still see the same old s**t being posted, the same old games being played with press releases ( "AmigaOS is real!" ... day later "so is MorphOS" ). I mean SNORE!!!!!!
Get all these b*stard options to market and lets P L A Y!!!!
Dave. :-)
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What the hell is wrong with some people? We will have (at least) two great hardware platforms, and if Hyperion just get the Pegasos developer board they ordered, both will run AmigaOS 4.
But this is not good enough for some people. No, there must be factions, fighting, bickering, gossiping, mud slinging, imagined enemies and trolling.
- "Oooh, bPlan haven't licensed the 'Amiga One' name, Pegasos can't be any good! And it can run MorphOS too, it must be evil! And I bet those ZIF-converters and dual CPU modules you can buy in any Mac shop are imaginary! There's a hidden bPlan/MorphOS/Satan Agenda!"
- "Nooo, Eyetech's Taiwanese boards are evil, because they didn't design them or make them themselves! And you can't upgrade the CPU - noone could possibly find any use for these boards! There's a hidden Eyetech/Amiga Inc./Satan Agenda!"
Et c., et c. ad nauseam.
F*cking "community".
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Exactly...
:)
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LOL!
Ive seen this comment on ann but not here so far:
"Oooh, bPlan haven't licensed the 'Amiga One' name, Pegasos can't be any good!"
But then I didnt see some of the stuff that Kenny referenced in this thread either.
Deletions?
Jumping at shadows?
The whole boring debate is over - AmigaONE is orderable for the common Amiga usable capable of putting it in an ATX case and plugging GFX cards into PCI slots which should be everyone by now.
We wont see the end to lobbying for one solution or the other. We wont see the end to the FUD campaign. We wont see the end to the branding freaks comments. We wont see the end of childish morons posting.
At least we will see the start of some usable, production ready Amiga-a-like hardware soon which is way further on than we have been for ages as opposed to that travesty of Amiga misbranding being pushed elsewhere...
Dave. :-D
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Flame point #1 : the amiga one is a teron cx
my answer : and morphos is the quark kernel with aros plastered on top so your point is?
Flame point #2 : the bplan team are real amiga people!
my answer : hmm not got nething bplan in mine , but if you mean the morphos team , these
people have developed alot yes , and alot of it has been an arse , e.g. the ppc kernel
the ppc boards ( which alot are defuct , nice design work there) and cybergraphx that
which fails to do alot of things p96 can do.
Flame point #3 : the bplan has a cpu slot !
And the amiga one has an extra pci , that could take a nice fast cpu , memory etc ;P.
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Flame point #1 : the amiga one is a teron cx
my answer : and morphos is the quark kernel with aros plastered on top so your point is?
If you could read propertly you would see my point some posts later....
And no, Morphos is not quark+aros... It used
AROS code to fill some of the gaps, like intuition. The aros code needed a LOT of
changes to be made amiga compatible and work in morphos...
Flame point #2 : the bplan team are real amiga people!
my answer : hmm not got nething bplan in mine , but if you mean the morphos team , these
people have developed alot yes , and alot of it has been an arse , e.g. the ppc kernel
the ppc boards ( which alot are defuct , nice design work there) and cybergraphx that
which fails to do alot of things p96 can do.
!!! Without the ppc boards the amiga would
be dead now you **(&*^!!!
As for CGX... point me ONE well coded piece
of software that works under p96 and not
cgx... And I'm talking about software NOT
made for a certain rtg system...
Flame point #3 : the bplan has a cpu slot !
And the amiga one has an extra pci , that could take a nice fast cpu , memory etc ;P.
Ha! That's a new one... Buy a new shinny
board to patch it as we did with those 10
year old motherboards... Keep em coming..
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Poster: Anonymous Date: 2002/3/23 5:51:40
For the Classic Amiga sure. But I'm confident that they'll adapt OS4 t
OS 4 is for the Amiga One. It will only run on classic Amigas with certian PPC accelerators.
If Peagos/Morphos can't run AOS 4.x in some way, it's a dead end or a non-Amiga platform.
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!!! Without the ppc boards the amiga would
be dead now you **(&*^!!!
Would it? Exactly how much of the software on my system that I use is PPC .... not a lot. Not because I dont have a PPC board - I have had one for YEARS - but because the overwhelming majority of useful software does not run using PPC.
So I think that claim is dubious at best. I think if PhaseV had not mucked up ( Im being nice ) its supply/demand of PPC then the Amiga would be better off than it now is in terms of userbase and PhaseV might still be alive producing products with a well known respected brand.
Your motherboard point also undermines the argument *for* a CPU slot rather than a soldered on CPU. Why bolt a new CPU into an old motherboard - thats just as "bad" a patch as the A1200 PowerUP scheme? The fact that one uses a PCI slot and the other doesnt is immaterial.
Its all academic now anyway.
Dave.
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Oops, then apparently I forgot another commonly used flame.
Flame #7: "The Pegasos is done by real Amiga people!"
Kenny says: Real amiga people? Just how is this defined? Aren't we all Amiga people, or are Amiga people physically different in some way? Do they have halos? Do their brains bulge out of their ears? I think what you mean is that some of the people designing the Pegasos were involved with the original construction of the Amiga. As I had mentioned above, pedigree doesn't really matter to me. Functionality does.
And, judging from the reponses in this thread, some people should actually *read through the whole comment* before flaming parts of it.
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Well i won`t be buying a Bplan just to find it crashes alot ( just like a certain ppc card made by members of a certain os team ) and then to send it back to a certain company never to see it return again.
Hell lets boycott MOS,BPlan and DCE in one go cuz they`ve all in one way or another been involved in dirty practices.
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point me one bit of software that only works with cgx and not p96 ... thats right its CGX`s fault cuz its a bang o` $#@!e !
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>Well i won`t be buying a Bplan just to find it
>crashes alot
That's why they tested it over a year and don't sell you developer beta boards like eyetech does.
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>Hell lets boycott MOS,BPlan and DCE in one go cuz they`ve all in one way or another been involved in dirty practices.
And Eyetech too! They sell you a Predator which is actually a renamed GREX! Oh my god!
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Yes, apart from the GREX and the Predator having different buses, different chipsets and different specs, they're exactly the same!
PS: My PPC board works perfectly and always has. Enough said.
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Dave if your refering to my post, AmigaOne is not the REAL Amiga... Well let me explain.
The only REAL Amiga is AmigaOS!!!
What ever platform that runs on, it doesnt matter. If its AmigaOS, if it runs nativly its an Amiga!!!
So, the pegusos (if it runs amigaos), sharkPPC and CyberstormPPC will all also be the REAL Amigas. Because they all run AmigaOS.
The AmigaOne is no more a REAL Amiga then the pegasus is or any of these other boards!
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Rodney
Im not referring to your post - I cant see any posts from you. In fact I cant see many that others are following up to.
Either Ive smoked too much catnip today or this database is corrupt.
Toodle pip!
Dave.
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I can only say this ,and for anybody that belives the same thing. You are so stupid, its a mac clone. Amigaone isnt the final course of direction. it is by know means the true Amiga. With this crapy system you loose real-time and multitasking not to mention true 24bit. now true you can render faster ,but i rather have the rest and not have rendering speed as stock. then again who renders, and i can update my sytem with a ppc and render faster. :-x
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The only REAL Amiga is AmigaOS!!!
What ever platform that runs on, it doesnt matter. If its AmigaOS, if it runs nativly its an Amiga!!!
So wrong on both accounts AMIga is hardware and software(os).Without the great hardware you just have a great os running on a lineal machince . Then the amiga os becomes lineal -no multitasking,no real-time ,plus not to mention no true 24bit of graphics when it is restricted to this type of hardware. Let me explain here. The Amiga gets or uses 24bits of graphics per each channel of v,g,a.The rest use 8bit ,ie the pc, per each channel, so yes pcs get emmulated 24 bitbut not true 24bit . Amiga is not about lies but about truth firstly.
The AmigaOne is no more a REAL Amiga then the pegasus is or any of these other boards!
These are all mac clones which are pc clones. That is the true reason
The sad fac is alot of people hae been hoodwinked and dont realize the facts that i mention.
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>With this crapy system you loose real-time and
>multitasking not to mention true 24bit.
Huh? Not sure what you mean, can you elaborate a bit?
My A1200 has true 24bit, the 24bit addressing mode
of the EC020, right? *lol*
>then again who renders, and i can update my
>sytem with a ppc and render faster.
Your mystery A2000 G3 card, Mister "shawn"?
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>plus not to mention no true 24bit of graphics
>when it is restricted to this type of hardware.
It's good enough for me if it supports the standard
32bit of gfx.
:D
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Ah, this is more like it. People are now reading, doing some good research, bringing up sensible points and exploring them in a civil and logical manner. This is what forums are about, not lame trolling!
My congratulations and thanks go to those people who have behaved themselves, no matter what side of the pegasos/A1 divide.
My utter contempt and dirty underpants to whiners. :-P
PS: Yes Ivan, I agree that MorphOS followers are on the whole less civil and much more likely to begin flames. I have noticed this myself many, many times. Perhaps I can understand them a little. I believe that they think that the pegasos is in real danger against the A1, which they view as just a cheap ppc board hammered together in a few months.
Whatever, they may be right, they may be wrong, but if they're not civil they do their cause more harm than good. That goes for the other side too.
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Shawn wrote:
... lineal machince ... -no multitasking,no real-time ... no true 24bit of graphics ... each channel of v,g,a ... pcs get emmulated 24 bit ... REAL Amiga ... mac clones which are pc clones.
Nice to see you here Shawn! Now we won't need a humour category in the forums.
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Check out the comments on the english part of Amiga-News.de.
Now he claims he would develop a G5/Zorro4/AAAAA-super Amiga.
BoXer anyone ? :-P :-P
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>Amiga gets or uses 24bits of graphics per each
> channel of v,g,a.The rest use 8bit ,ie the pc, per
>each channel,
What the f*** you are talking here? Get a live. The Amiga never had 24bit per gun! You're talking bs here. Even the 24bit boards used standard VGA chips, thus the old Cirrus based boards (Picollo, P2 etc.) just had 6bit per gun instead the usual 8 currently used...name a chip which does 32x32x32(+32 alpha? what about that?) . idiot. :-o
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Stop with the personal attacks here. You can get your point across without them. If you can't act like an adult, you will be banned.
We will not tolerate the stupidity of other sites here. We will have no "Shawns" here, and if I have to disable anonymous posting to get there, rest assured, it will be done.
Open communication does not mean stupid mindless attacks because you think no one is watching.
Wayne Hunt
Site Manager
Amiga.org
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So wrong on both accounts AMIga is hardware and software(os).Without the great hardware you just have a great os running on a lineal machince . Then the amiga os becomes lineal -no multitasking,no real-time ,plus not to mention no true 24bit of graphics when it is restricted to this type of hardware. Let me explain here. The Amiga gets or uses 24bits of graphics per each channel of v,g,a.The rest use 8bit ,ie the pc, per each channel, so yes pcs get emmulated 24 bitbut not true 24bit . Amiga is not about lies but about truth firstly.
Hello again Shawn. We had this discussion on ANN way before you starting using mine and others handles to spoof as us to stir the s**t. It seems you never read followups either ( which is a very Rueian habit ) because if you did you would have read my detailed technical explanation of why you are completely incorrect, quoting from the Amiga RKRMs, AA technical reference et al.
Your prose is instantly recognisable as are your views, you are pretty unique really.
If you need money to buy books or get an education Im sure we would all chip in.
Regards
Dave.
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I am a PC user and I see it like this!
In the PC industry there are many
manufacturers of the same thing
ex. there are asus motherboard
with via chipsets and MSI mother-
boards with the same chipset.
Running Windows!!
And thats why people buy PC´s
or just check Nvidia´s dominance
in the graphics industry because
there are many manufacturers
of Nvidia boards.
If there are more board makers
than one people will think that
this is something, not like Apple who
tries to sell a computer what they
completely own and almost no
one buys it.
To make you people sad, isn´t
these boards just PC´s with
a PPC instead of a X86, the chipset
artica S can host a X86 processor!
It has north and south bridge
design and AGP (intel inside)!!!!
http://developer.intel.com/technology/agp/
And were have you people read
that they have the same chipset?
Well it is very fun that some one will
make a PPC based computer that is
not a MAC!
I want one!!!!
(it runs linuxPPC (NetBSD PPC?)!!!)
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I'm happy to see that Pegasos development is at about the same stage as the AmigOne, and I'm happy that we'll have a variety of boards to chooses from. With a bit of luck, this just might start a thriving market for PPC motherboards, not just for Amiga but for Linux, BeOS, and other OS's.
That said, I find I'm not particularly gung-ho about either board. Why in the world did BPlan design a MicroATX motherboard??? I think what Amiga users want is expandability, and (everything else being equal) prefer an Amiga 4000T-style system, rather than a cramped 3000 or 4000, or a creatively-expandable 1200. I love the processor slot and the onboard Firewire, but the few PCI slots makes it very undesirable, and that BPlan added a crappy AMR slot in place of a third PCI slot is silly. On my new Amiga, I'll be using a 1) a Soundblaster Live-style sound card, 2) a SCSI card, and 3) likely an A1200 PCI compatibiliy card...and additionally on an AmigaOne, 4) an Ethernet card and 5) a Firewire card (eventually). If someone develops a Catweasel-style PCI floppy controller, I'd like to use that, too. Neither board has enough slots, and (although it surprises me) I'm actually considering the Mediator/Shark route.
One question: I've seen people rip the quality of Realtek Ethernet chips to shreds on usenet and on the AmigaOne mailing list. Why then are companaies like Elbox and BPlan so interested in supporting them? I guess only some of their recent chips require the driver to jump through hoops to operate correctly?
Todd