AmigaOS 4.1 Classic CSPPC UW-SCSI install problem

[nueron]

I am having a problem with AmigaOS 4.1 Classic and my Cyberstorm PPC UW-SCSI interface.

The setup is:-
Amiga 4000 desktop in tower case.
Cyberstorm PPC with 128MB memory.
Mediator 4000Di (WINSIZE set for 512MB).
Radeon 9200 PCI 256MB graphics card (I modified the Radeon to work with the 5V only mediator).
Realtek 8029 PCI network card.
IDE DVD Burner.
IDE Seagate 160GB HDD.
(I also have some R-IDSC SCSI to IDE modules which work fine with this setup).

The problem is that if anything is connected to the Cyberstorm PPC UW-SCSI bus (even just terminators), then AmigaOS 4.1 floppy+boot CD stops after displaying the "AmigaOS 4.1 Classic" splash screen on the Radeon card.

1. If I have nothing connected to the CSPPC UW-SCSI connector (unterminated) and both the DVD burner and HDD are on the A4000 IDE interface, it boots up fine and I can run in Live CD mode.
(Note: CSPPC has been setup with No MapROM, 70ns memory speed, all SCSI devices are default + cybppc.device 44.71)

2. If I add an unterminated UW-SCSI cable to the CSPPC UW-SCSI connector, it still boots fine.

3. If I terminate the UW-SCSI cable (one or both ends - yes, I know it needs to be terminated at both ends...), it stops at the splash screen.

4. If I move the DVD burner and HDD to the UW-SCSI cable using the R-IDSC modules, then it also boots up but again stops at the "AmigaOS 4.1 Classic" splash screen. This seems to indicate that the SCSI bus is working since it is booting from the AmigaOS4.1 CD!

5. If I boot using AmigaOS 3.9 floppy+CD with HDD & DVD on SCSI bus, this works perfectly. I can use HDTOOLBOX to see both the HDD & DVD drive on the CSPPC UW-SCSI bus.

I'm not sure exactly where the problem lies. The CSPPC UW-SCSI interface appears to work fine when using OS3.9. I've read that the cybppc.device under OS4.x is more strict with cable termination and setup, but there are no error messages or any indication from the boot sequence that anything is wrong, it just stops after displaying the splash screen when there is a terminated device on the CSPPC UW-SCSI connector. Is it possible to view some debug output on the serial port to help determine what is wrong?

I've tried various SCSI cables, terminations and SCSI settings and it does the same thing every time. I could just use the A4000 IDE interface and forget about the CSPPC UW-SCSI, however I would prefer to use it.

Any help would be appreciated. BTW, I also had a similar problem with AmigaOS 4.0 Classic and ended up just using the A4000 IDE...


Regards,
Stephen.

[Zac67]

I've got absolutely no experience with AOS4.1 and/or Cyberstorm SCSI but: AOS4 runs a driver of its own that needs to initialize - this appears to be the problem.

Make sure your terminators and cabling are AOK. U(W) SCSI is the pickiest of all SCSI flavors: short cabling and active termination are mandatory - old active terminators have been seen to quit with Ultra speed; anything LVD/SE will be fine. If the SCSI/IDE adaptors include terminators those are probably fine, too. Do these bridges support Ultra speed? Have you tried lowering the CS SCSI speed to Fast?

PS: have you waited long enough for the driver to initialize? I've read somewhere that this may take a while if high (low?) IDs are used or the last HDD isn't tagged as last (so the full range of IDs needs to be scanned).

[Crumb]

@nueron

OS4 scsi driver is very picky about scsi chain. Check and re-check that your scsi cables and terminators are OK or even try out new ones.

[HammerD]

I am having a problem with AmigaOS 4.1 Classic and my Cyberstorm PPC UW-SCSI interface.

The setup is:-
Amiga 4000 desktop in tower case.
Cyberstorm PPC with 128MB memory.
Mediator 4000Di (WINSIZE set for 512MB).
Radeon 9200 PCI 256MB graphics card (I modified the Radeon to work with the 5V only mediator).
Realtek 8029 PCI network card.
IDE DVD Burner.
IDE Seagate 160GB HDD.
(I also have some R-IDSC SCSI to IDE modules which work fine with this setup).

The problem is that if anything is connected to the Cyberstorm PPC UW-SCSI bus (even just terminators), then AmigaOS 4.1 floppy+boot CD stops after displaying the "AmigaOS 4.1 Classic" splash screen on the Radeon card.

1. If I have nothing connected to the CSPPC UW-SCSI connector (unterminated) and both the DVD burner and HDD are on the A4000 IDE interface, it boots up fine and I can run in Live CD mode.
(Note: CSPPC has been setup with No MapROM, 70ns memory speed, all SCSI devices are default + cybppc.device 44.71)

2. If I add an unterminated UW-SCSI cable to the CSPPC UW-SCSI connector, it still boots fine.

3. If I terminate the UW-SCSI cable (one or both ends - yes, I know it needs to be terminated at both ends...), it stops at the splash screen.

4. If I move the DVD burner and HDD to the UW-SCSI cable using the R-IDSC modules, then it also boots up but again stops at the "AmigaOS 4.1 Classic" splash screen. This seems to indicate that the SCSI bus is working since it is booting from the AmigaOS4.1 CD!

5. If I boot using AmigaOS 3.9 floppy+CD with HDD & DVD on SCSI bus, this works perfectly. I can use HDTOOLBOX to see both the HDD & DVD drive on the CSPPC UW-SCSI bus.

I'm not sure exactly where the problem lies. The CSPPC UW-SCSI interface appears to work fine when using OS3.9. I've read that the cybppc.device under OS4.x is more strict with cable termination and setup, but there are no error messages or any indication from the boot sequence that anything is wrong, it just stops after displaying the splash screen when there is a terminated device on the CSPPC UW-SCSI connector. Is it possible to view some debug output on the serial port to help determine what is wrong?

I've tried various SCSI cables, terminations and SCSI settings and it does the same thing every time. I could just use the A4000 IDE interface and forget about the CSPPC UW-SCSI, however I would prefer to use it.

Any help would be appreciated. BTW, I also had a similar problem with AmigaOS 4.0 Classic and ended up just using the A4000 IDE...


Regards,
Stephen.

I'll need the serial debug log to be of any assistance.  Instructions for setting it up are here:

http://www.hd-zone.com/2011/05/how-to-setup-serial-output-debugging-on-amigaos-4-1-classic/

I have almost the same setup as you and it works.  I have active terminators on both ends of the SCSI cable and the scsi hard disk is not terminated nor is my scsi cdrom.

Darren

[Mugo]

I use one of these R-IDSC adapters in my CSPPC A4000 too, with an 80GB IDE HD.

I don´t have any experience with AOS4.1, but have AOS4.0 installed in my A4000.

Before i bought this adapter, i used to have a real SCSI HD in this machine and AOS4.0 worked beautifully. But with this adapter i can´t write anything to the disc using AOS4.0. The system reports "function not supported", or something like this.

In Morphos and in OS3.9 the adapter work flawlessly. But not in OS4.0.

I thought that the adapter was cheap and used some instruction not supported by AOS4.0, but maybe it´s not the case as some people recognize the driver in OS4 being picky.

I´ve tried various combinations too, and in the end decided to stop using AOS4 as i refuse to use the internal IDE interface having a much faster SCSI interface in the CyberStorm.

Anyway, if there´s any solution for this, or if you have success with your experiments, please let me know!

[Kawazu]

And your scsi setup is like this?

Terminator===CSPPC===IDE HDD (termpwr ON(on the adapter)===CD Drive (TermPwr ON (on the adapter)=== Terminator

Have you tried running the whole scsi chain in 8bit instead of 16bit? If you do so, disable all the ID you do not use in the PPC bios and sett the HDD and SCSI to 8bit.

Do not know if an IDE hdd works like an 50pin scsi, if it do you will need to terminate the 8bits that is left over if you run in 16bit mode and to do so you need term pwr on the IDE or CD.

[nueron]

I've got absolutely no experience with AOS4.1 and/or Cyberstorm SCSI but: AOS4 runs a driver of its own that needs to initialize - this appears to be the problem.

Make sure your terminators and cabling are AOK. U(W) SCSI is the pickiest of all SCSI flavors: short cabling and active termination are mandatory - old active terminators have been seen to quit with Ultra speed; anything LVD/SE will be fine. If the SCSI/IDE adaptors include terminators those are probably fine, too. Do these bridges support Ultra speed? Have you tried lowering the CS SCSI speed to Fast?

PS: have you waited long enough for the driver to initialize? I've read somewhere that this may take a while if high (low?) IDs are used or the last HDD isn't tagged as last (so the full range of IDs needs to be scanned).

Thanks. I am using LVD/SE terminators so that should be ok and I've tried different cabling as well. The R-IDSC modules are indeed Ultra SCSI (20MB/s, Asynch/Sync, SE, 8-bit) and they work ok with OS3.9.

I waited for quite a while (up to 10mins) and the boot sequence has stopped whenever there is something on the UW-SCSI bus.

@nueron

OS4 scsi driver is very picky about scsi chain. Check and re-check that your scsi cables and terminators are OK or even try out new ones.

I was thinking of getting some other cables & terminators just in case these have problems. It doesn't help that OS4.x isn't reporting any actual errors...

I use one of these R-IDSC adapters in my CSPPC A4000 too, with an 80GB IDE HD.

I don´t have any experience with AOS4.1, but have AOS4.0 installed in my A4000.

Before i bought this adapter, i used to have a real SCSI HD in this machine and AOS4.0 worked beautifully. But with this adapter i can´t write anything to the disc using AOS4.0. The system reports "function not supported", or something like this.

In Morphos and in OS3.9 the adapter work flawlessly. But not in OS4.0.

I thought that the adapter was cheap and used some instruction not supported by AOS4.0, but maybe it´s not the case as some people recognize the driver in OS4 being picky.

I´ve tried various combinations too, and in the end decided to stop using AOS4 as i refuse to use the internal IDE interface having a much faster SCSI interface in the CyberStorm.

Anyway, if there´s any solution for this, or if you have success with your experiments, please let me know!

I'll let you know as soon as I find a solution

And your scsi setup is like this?

Terminator===CSPPC===IDE HDD (termpwr ON(on the adapter)===CD Drive (TermPwr ON (on the adapter)=== Terminator

Have you tried running the whole scsi chain in 8bit instead of 16bit? If you do so, disable all the ID you do not use in the PPC bios and sett the HDD and SCSI to 8bit.

Do not know if an IDE hdd works like an 50pin scsi, if it do you will need to terminate the 8bits that is left over if you run in 16bit mode and to do so you need term pwr on the IDE or CD.

Thanks. Yes, that SCSI setup is the same as what I tried. I also tried forcing different modes such as 8-bit and enabling/disabling SCSI devices through the PPC menu, however nothing made a difference.

I'll need the serial debug log to be of any assistance.  Instructions for setting it up are here:

http://www.hd-zone.com/2011/05/how-to-setup-serial-output-debugging-on-amigaos-4-1-classic/

I have almost the same setup as you and it works.  I have active terminators on both ends of the SCSI cable and the scsi hard disk is not terminated nor is my scsi cdrom.

Darren

Thanks. I generated a new boot floppy and copied the AmigaOS4.1 CD System startup-sequence to it. I then editied that for serial debug output and modified the boot floppy startup to execute it instead of the CD version.

I have captured the serial output for successful and unsuccessful startups. I tried three different (unsuccessful) UW-SCSI startups:-
1. LVD/SE SCSI cable with LVD/SE terminator at one end.
2. LVD/SE SCSI cable with LVD/SE terminators at both ends.
3. LVD/SE SCSI cable with LVD/SE terminators at both ends and Seagate UW-SCSI drive attached (with Term power enabled).
 All three have exactly the same debug output.

Here is the unsuccessful boot log (I can send the successful one if you want?):-

Init of x86emu.resource
res = 0x3FFFD820, res->execute_bios = 0x0899E9D0
Result = 0x3FFFD820
sc_acb = 0x0FDE0000
cybppc.device: pa F40000 after chip reset after bus reset after chip init
Scanning bus 'dvi'
I2C_GetAck: timeout!
I2C_GetAck: timeout!
I2C_GetAck: timeout!
failed.
Scanning bus 'vga'
siopng type 770 reset V0 id 16
cybppc.device 53.1
ENTERING MAIN LOOP, cd = 3FF66024, msgport = 3FF6604C, mask = 0xE0000000, rp = 0xF40000
0000: 00 FF FF FF FF FF FF 00 09 D1 0B 79 45 54 00 00  ...........yET..
0010: 2F 12 01 03 0E 2F 1A 78 2E 35 85 A6 56 48 9A 24  /..../.x.5..VH.$
0020: 12 50 54 A5 6B BA 71 00 81 00 81 40 95 0F 81 80  .PT.k.q....@....
0030: 95 00 B3 00 01 01 94 43 80 90 72 38 28 40 80 C8  .......C..r8(@..
0040: 35 00 DC 0C 11 00 00 1E 00 00 00 FF 00 4B 42 38  5............KB8
0050: 30 31 34 34 35 30 32 36 0A 20 00 00 00 FD 00 32  01445026.......2
0060: 4C 1E 5E 15 00 0A 20 20 20 20 20 20 00 00 00 FC  L.^.............
0070: 00 42 65 6E 51 20 45 32 32 30 30 48 44 0A 00 E7  .BenQ.E2200HD...
EDID V1.3
ManufacturerID BNQ ProductID 790B
SerialNo 21573 Manufactured week 47 of 2008
Input type analog
Display gamma 2.20
Maximum Image Size 47x26cm
PowerManagement Standby no Suspend no ActiveOff yes
Serial Number KB801445026
Monitor Name  BenQ E2200HD

Established timings:
        800x600@60
        640x480@75
        640x480@60
        720x400@70
        1280x1024@75
        1024x768@75
        1024x768@60
        832x624@75
        800x600@75

Standard Timing Identification:
        1152x720@60hz (16:10)
        Not Found: 1152x720@60hz (16:10) - calling CVT(RB=1)
        1280x800@60hz (16:10)
        Not Found: 1280x800@60hz (16:10) - calling CVT(RB=1)
        1280x960@60hz (4:3)
        1440x900@75hz (16:10)
        Not Found: 1440x900@75hz (16:10) - calling CVT(RB=1)
        1280x1024@60hz (5:4)
        1440x900@60hz (16:10)
        Not Found: 1440x900@60hz (16:10) - calling CVT(RB=1)
        1680x1050@60hz (16:10)
        Not Found: 1680x1050@60hz (16:10) - calling CVT(RB=1)

Mode 1920x1080@60hz 67khz
        DotClock 173000000hz
        HTimings 1920 2048 2248 2576
        VTimings 1080 1083 1088 1120
        Image Size 476x268mm
        Flags progressive +hsync +vsync

Monitor Range Limits:
        Horizontal frequency 30 - 94khz
        Vertical   frequency 50 - 76hz
        Pixelclock           210Mhz
[CallHookPktSwapped] task='exec.task' cmd='' stack avail=15120 too low; swapping
[CallHookPktSwapped] task='exec.task' cmd='' stack avail=15120 too low; swapping
[CallHookPktSwapped] task='exec.task' cmd='' stack avail=15120 too low; swapping
[CallHookPktSwapped] task='exec.task' cmd='' stack avail=15120 too low; swapping
[CallHookPktSwapped] task='exec.task' cmd='' stack avail=15120 too low; swapping
[CallHookPktSwapped] task='exec.task' cmd='' stack avail=15120 too low; swapping
[CallHookPktSwapped] task='exec.task' cmd='' stack avail=15120 too low; swapping
[CallHookPktSwapped] task='exec.task' cmd='' stack avail=15120 too low; swapping
[CallHookPktSwapped] task='exec.task' cmd='' stack avail=15072 too low; swapping
[CallHookPktSwapped] task='exec.task' cmd='' stack avail=15072 too low; swapping
[scsi.device] No "ATAPIismajik" module found, skipping IDEFix drive detection.
sii3112ide.device 53.3 (05.02.2009)
Not running on AmigaOne
Nothing started, bailing out
sii3114ide.device 53.3 (05.02.2009)
Not running on AmigaOne
Nothing started, bailing out
sii3512ide.device 53.3 (05.02.2009)
Not running on AmigaOne
Nothing started, bailing out
sii0680ide.device 53.3 (05.02.2009)
Not running on AmigaOne
Nothing started, bailing out
Sending wide request to target 0
SIOP: Invalid instruction detected
siopngchkintr: target 0 ds FDE0120
scripts F41000 ds FDE0120 rp F40000 dsp F41008 dcmd 0
siopngchkintr: istat 1 dstat 81 sist 0 dsps 0 dsa FDE0120 sbcl 0 sts FF msg FF FF sfbr 0
cybppc.device: abort reset: dstat 80, istat 00 sist 0000 sien 048F sbcl 00
cybppc.device: pa F40000 after chip reset after bus reset after chip init
siopng type 770 reset V0 id 16
Sending wide request to target 1



Regards,
Stephen.

[HammerD]

Thanks.
Stephen.

I've sent the debug output to the author of the device driver...I will let you know what he says.  If you don't hear back from me in a couple days send me a pm.

thanks

[nueron]

Could someone with a CSPPC who has successfully installed AmigaOS 4.1 Classic onto a UW-SCSI drive (or something on the UW-SCSI interface) try the boot floppy+CD with the UW-SCSI cable only terminated at one end please? Does it boot properly?

I'm trying to narrow down the problem and I need more information. From the debug output the cybppc.device is locking up after 'sending a request to target 1'.


Regards,
Stephen.

[HammerD]

Could someone with a CSPPC who has successfully installed AmigaOS 4.1 Classic onto a UW-SCSI drive (or something on the UW-SCSI interface) try the boot floppy+CD with the UW-SCSI cable only terminated at one end please? Does it boot properly?

I'm trying to narrow down the problem and I need more information. From the debug output the cybppc.device is locking up after 'sending a request to target 1'.


Regards,
Stephen.

Yes, that boots here and appears to install fine. I went through a complete install, booting from floppy, then installed all the Extras programs after.

It is a Seagate ST39102LW UW SCSI drive.

http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=356e5a802efbd010VgnVCM100000dd04090aRCRD&locale=en-US&reqPage=Legacy

I have:

ACTIVE Terminator --> CS PPC scsi Controller --> empty connector --> SCSI hard drive at end of cable.   The only jumper on the drive is force SE (single ended).  No other jumpers on the drive.

Although technically I think that is an invalid setup.

Darren

[nueron]

Yes, that boots here and appears to install fine. I went through a complete install, booting from floppy, then installed all the Extras programs after.

It is a Seagate ST39102LW UW SCSI drive.

http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=356e5a802efbd010VgnVCM100000dd04090aRCRD&locale=en-US&reqPage=Legacy

I have:

ACTIVE Terminator --> CS PPC scsi Controller --> empty connector --> SCSI hard drive at end of cable.   The only jumper on the drive is force SE (single ended).  No other jumpers on the drive.

Although technically I think that is an invalid setup.

Darren

Thank you Darren. I happen to have a Seagate ST39102LW UW SCSI drive as well, so I tried the exact same setup as you and it still stops at the splash screen. It sounds like there could be a fault with the SYMBIOS 53C770 chip, although it's odd that it works with AmigaOS 3.9.

Do you know what your SCSI boot setup is (from PPC boot menu)? I tried various options, but didn't appear to make a difference.

BTW, is your FlashROM cybppc.device version 44.71 (I know it uses a newer version in AmigaOS 4.1, just wondering)?


Regards,
Stephen.

[zipper]

Do you have something to deliver Term Power to the chain as CSPPC doesn't do it?

[HammerD]

Thank you Darren. I happen to have a Seagate ST39102LW UW SCSI drive as well, so I tried the exact same setup as you and it still stops at the splash screen. It sounds like there could be a fault with the SYMBIOS 53C770 chip, although it's odd that it works with AmigaOS 3.9.

Do you know what your SCSI boot setup is (from PPC boot menu)? I tried various options, but didn't appear to make a difference.

BTW, is your FlashROM cybppc.device version 44.71 (I know it uses a newer version in AmigaOS 4.1, just wondering)?


Regards,
Stephen.

AmigaOS 4 doesn't use the phase5 cybppc.device, so the settings in there are irrelevent.  Of course, you need the unit enabled in the CS PPC boot menu to cold boot from it, but once the OS4 kernel loads the cybppc.device.kmod from OS4 takes over and any settings in the CS PPC boot menu setup are not used  at all.  For the record I have it all set to automatic settings in the CS PPC boot menu.  Unit 0 enabled.

The FlashROM is the latest, same as you, 44.71.

There _can be_ some issues with hard drives that have been used in the past many times with existing RDB's and/or Amiga partitions.  If you have any way to totally wipe the drive and ensure there is no former RDB installed that might help.  It's possible it is  hanging up on that.

You may be able to do it with OS 3.9 - see what is in the RDB and if possible remove any filesystem in there just to see if it helps.   But in most cases people have had to totally wipe the drive on another computer (ie. Windows or linux box).

That is only a theory now but I would try it.  I keep an old adaptec PCI SCSI card around just in case I need to hook up the drive to my PC and access it to verify it's working or wipe it.

Darren

[nueron]

Do you have something to deliver Term Power to the chain as CSPPC doesn't do it?

Are you sure? My CSPPC has an SMD diode in series with an SMD polyswitch which supplies termination power to the cable. I've measured the termination voltage and reference voltages on the terminators and they are indeed working fine (this is with just a SCSI cable and terminators, no devices).

It doesn't hurt to enable termination power from another source (such as a drive) and I usually do, but it is not necessary.


Regards,
Stephen.

[nueron]

AmigaOS 4 doesn't use the phase5 cybppc.device, so the settings in there are irrelevent.  Of course, you need the unit enabled in the CS PPC boot menu to cold boot from it, but once the OS4 kernel loads the cybppc.device.kmod from OS4 takes over and any settings in the CS PPC boot menu setup are not used  at all.  For the record I have it all set to automatic settings in the CS PPC boot menu.  Unit 0 enabled.

The FlashROM is the latest, same as you, 44.71.

There _can be_ some issues with hard drives that have been used in the past many times with existing RDB's and/or Amiga partitions.  If you have any way to totally wipe the drive and ensure there is no former RDB installed that might help.  It's possible it is  hanging up on that.

You may be able to do it with OS 3.9 - see what is in the RDB and if possible remove any filesystem in there just to see if it helps.   But in most cases people have had to totally wipe the drive on another computer (ie. Windows or linux box).

That is only a theory now but I would try it.  I keep an old adaptec PCI SCSI card around just in case I need to hook up the drive to my PC and access it to verify it's working or wipe it.

Darren

Thanks Darren, I wasn't sure if the OS4.1 cybppc.device used any of the settings from the boot menu.

I will look into the RDB of the drive and remove any existing partitions. One other thing you could try (if you don't mind?):-

ACTIVE Terminator --> CS PPC scsi Controller --> empty connector --> nothing at end of cable.

On my setup this still fails with boot floppy+CD(IDE).

I just tried the ST39102LW drive with AmigaOS 3.9, checked the drive is using synchronous+16-bit transfers (using Phase 5 UnitControl) and then did some speed tests with the old SCSIBench. I can get >10MB/s transfers (speed bar goes off the screen) with no errors.


Regards,
Stephen.