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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga Hardware News => Topic started by: System on April 17, 2002, 07:58:43 PM
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Myself, PJ Matthews, owner of www.walibe.com and Oliver Hannaford-Day owner of www.cdtv.org.uk are currently in the process of designing a new classic AMIGA based around the coldfire processor. We hope to use the AGA chipset along side another as yet undecided GPU.
Its a big project and we want your help, paticuarly in securing a batch of Coldfire processors, so if you know of anywhere selling in small batches please contact us, also you can join our group in buying 24 coldfire processors, just contact us with how many you need. Visit walibe.com for all the latest info on the subject.
Many thanks to you all.
http://www.walibe.com
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Don't see the point.
Why to desing an 'old' machine which is moreover incompatible ?
For having fun ?
For hobby ?
re
Treke
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It should be 100% compatible once the emulation layer (hardware or software) has been implemented- or very close.
It offers an alternative to classic AMIGA users, we hope to have an A1200 accelerator board also using the processor, just look at the what the coldfire chip can and what bridge chips are currently available, you'd be mad not to be interested.
PJ - www.walibe.com
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i guess it can be fun at the right price but nothing id seriouly us as my main computer
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Some designs can even include PCI slots and an AGP slot, it'll be the most powerful true AMIGA you have ever seen and it'll beable to play all your classic games as well as more moderns. The possibilties for a set top box unit similar to the CDTV based around this make the mind boggle. It should be cheap and be almost 100% compatible with all your classic software which is why our main aim is.
www.walibe.com
www.cdtv.org.uk
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Replicating the AGA chipset will be extremly difficult, as proved to be BoXeR's downfall.
pt
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Its been done - the Inside Out just stuck it all on one chip. We're after the rights to the chip or just the rights to manufacture a batch. Or the very worst it could just be ECS with an optional extra GPU.
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Don't see the point.
What's the point with the Commodore-one ? Who needs a C64 clone ? Yet, lots of people are interested
If (it's a big if) they can get this "coldfire" Amiga a reality, it could be your best change when you want to run old AGA games when your A1200/4000 dies, and UAE doesn't "Cut it"
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That my dear friend was my original intention. You can CDs full of AMIGA games for next to nothing. Retro computing is becoming popular again and this could be your answer people to running that older software, bringing back the memories.
Finally an AMIGA user whos plugged in, nice one seer.
Phil
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If im not mistaken the coldfire series are intented for handheld devices. Its been a while since I checked the specs last, but I think remembering something about 300-400 mhz and a instructionset that was smaller than the one for 68000.
The 68xxx emulator in os 4.0 (I think its called petunia or something) is said to be able to emulate an 68040 at 200-400 mhz on a G3 machine if I remember it right. So I think Ill save my money for the amigaOne
Its sad though... We could really have used this accelerator 5 years ago
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Theres faster processors in the coldfire line due out, but this also an issue of compatability. I'm betting the AMIGA One runs few of your older applications but then again these are two different machines. Reduced instruction set yes, its a RISC processor after all.
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Great project, I would even be happy to donate the money to buy a CPU, get 20 people to do that, and you're off
Signed: Lasse Bodilsen (will make a profile later)
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Its been a while since I checked the specs last, but I think remembering something about 300-400 mhz and a instructionset that was smaller than the one for 68000.
IIRC the most recent Coldfires were touted as 68060 instruction compatible, just not pin compatible.
Why?
Why not? I'd say good luck to these guys!
:-o
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Hi,
Heres a little reason I am looking at the Coldfire V4,
It uses SDram or 72Pin ram as standard (either or both), 1 chip PCI interface, 2 chip Firewire interface and the 162Mhz is A: equal to a 160Mhz PPC (233MIPs) B: is twice as fast as any 68060 available.
The 16Bit Amiga`s have been left out in the cold with the new PPC range and this expansion will at least give them the needed PCI interface to add a 500Mhz G4 but can do so much more, The Amiga was designed around the 68000 CPU and any PPC upgrade will be a patch with a new OS needed, New Kickstart needed and more, Now Amiga are doing the OS and scrapping the kickstart and infact stripping the Amiga range from all of its custom chips. The Coldfire V4 is a new 68000 CPU (Like a 68080 if you like) and is under constant development (a 233 and 333Mhz version has been prototyped and will be available soon.
So if you have a A1000, A500, A600, CDTV or CD32 then this will be the fastest upgrade available, The A1200, A3000 & A4000 upgrades will still be good, including upgrades that simply arnt available yet.
And best of all the Coldfire V4 CPU is very cheap, The CPU costs £25-£30, A 68030 costs £130 from Arrow UK (Motorola`s main UK resaler), This upgrade will be a cheap way to upgrade every Amiga and in a way that simply wasnt open to Commodore when they were around, Otherwise I am sure they would have used it.
Now we are looking at doing a CPU upgrade first but would love to do an Amiga laptop, desktop and more, all based around the Coldfire (Which is designed for use in anything from a palmtop to an internet server).
Anyway any questions? :-P
Oliver Hannaford-Day
Web master of the Commodore CDTV Information Center @ www.cdtv.org.uk
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YOUR DA MAN
Cheers for the feedback people - any e-mails I've seen will be forwarded to Oliver (and ive had tons) so watch out Oliver for a few meg worth of e-mails.
PJ
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I suppose I had better outline my intentions too. My interests in this started after looking at cdtv.org.uk and Oliver was toying with the idea of a coldfire expansion - mainly for his CDTV. I like the idea and did some research as did he. Our aim is now to produce a new machine based around the new processor but there are several leaps yet.
The first device will hook up to a regular AMIGA as an accelerator card and will allow us to do development work, and if theres enougth interest I don't see why we couldn't produce a run of cards in this form. It'll certainly prove handy to shift a number of coldfire processors.
I really do love all the feed back I've been getting and the support as well as the most welcome offer of help. Please remember guys this is the latest coldfire not the older generations.
PJ Matthews
www.walibe.com
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@PJ Matthews
How about registering to Amiga.org? There is VERY good moderation here and personally I'd love to be able to discuss your plans and progress.
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How do you mean register to AMIGA.org - I'm already a registered user if that what you mean???
PJ
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He may have ment me, Sorry but I have registered lots of times and after lots of reinstalls I gave up and moved on to Amiga-News.de and Ann.lu (Who are always in a bad mood), This is my first post here in ages.
Anyway better go, Lots of E-Mails to answer.
Oliver Hannaford-Day
Web Master of The Commodore CDTV Information Center @ www.cdtv.org.uk
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Does Intent/AA run on the coldfire?
If the new codefire is 68060 instruction compatible - and not pin - surely you could just rework a boxer motherboard? then bang the whole thing out really cheaply. £150 for the board, cpu, ram, floppy, case.
I'd be interested if a laptop came out.
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perhaps you could include all the custom chipsets!
OCS ECS AGA etc
One Amiga to run them all! hehe.... Lord of the rings...
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A laptop AMIGA is a very popular idea, alot of AMIGA users have suggested this, it is very much a possibility - but we need to take this one step at a time.
PJ
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All of this sounds really impressive, but could we just forget about AGA & implement something a bit more cutting edge?
If not, I'd opt to see ECS over AGA for "real world" usage (who has time for games?). Either one is a set back
though. If it can't do 1024x768, it's a dissapointment. All that muscle on a chunky cartoon screen. Nearly shamefull.
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Well I say good good :)
Imagine being able to run all your old progs at super speeds. I know the 68k emulation in OS4 is going to be fast, but there will be limitations to use 6o3e blizzard board users. I would not have gone down the PPC route just yet, If you could have old and new software running at case melting speeds in a 68K instruction set.
Sweet Dude
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AGA was mentioned along side another another as yet undecided GPU. This would mean the AGA chipset is still there for any hardware that requires it but the GPU kicks in for other stuff. We also beable to raise the 2mb chip limit of the AGA chipset up a little, but this is a guess and I'm not even sure if it an be done. Alot of signs point to NO whilst others (The A4000 motherboard) point to YES.
PJ
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The Atari world is already constructing a clone of the Atari ST series based on the Coldfire CPU. The project has been in the works for a while now and has some pretty good specs, including AGP graphics and USB 2.0. Have a look at:
http://acp.atari.org/
or
http://www.xtos.de/
Good to see that another 68k community is considering the Coldfire path. it really is a good chip.
-Jeff
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This is a very interesting idea, in my opinion.
To the best of my knowledge, it is not possible to have more then 2Mb of chip RAM in any Amiga custom chipset, and the jumper on the A4K (2Mb/8Mb chip RAM) was there as a result of the A4K being a prototype that was put into production in one hell of a hurry, and which was never really designed to be put into production. Oh, and having more then 2Mb of chip RAM would most likely break a large amount of software, perhaps even AmigaDOS/Workbench (now commonly referred to simply as AmigaOS) 3.x may have trouble with more then 2Mb of chip - I don't know and the only people who might really have an idea are those who have worked on the Amiga operating system or have at least viewed the source code to it.
The other issue that comes to mind for me, is would you be able to get Kickstart ROM chips for this, and how would they be licensed? Or would the Kickstart ROM's be stored as files (like on the early A3K's) so you could select which Kickstart you want to use on booting the machine - which would be good for compatibility with older software that objects to anything better then Kickstart 1.3...
An interesting project indeed, and I wish all the people involved good luck and all the best. I'd love to see this available for sale, in my opinion it has a bigger market then the CD32 ever did, even if it's not compatible with the future Amiga's (which will be out by the time this thing see's the light of day) there is still plenty of software for such a machine. It'd be interesting to see what Amiga Inc have to say about this...
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It might lead to a slow revival of the 68k-based market if the price and performance ratio is right.
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Hey Wallabie, it just dawned on me it was you I was conversing with... See my latest email reguarding the possible solution to the chipset problem :-D
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Hello PJ and all.
Okay, must I admit It makes sense for an amount of people. Maybe I just expect too much from a new amiga-like machine. Personally, I would expect a path forward when designing a new system, to make sense to put effort into the work.
I'm curious about these questions:
1. What operating system you would like to use ?
Amiga OS 3.x is nice, but we must admit, world is changing... You will have to use it forever and that is not a path forward.
2. Who will write new applications for AmigaOS 3.x when there will be the 4-th, PPC version ?
Won't bother you more ;-)
And, nevertheless ,PJ, I wish you good luck !
re
Treke
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It offers an alternative to classic AMIGA users, we hope to have an A1200 accelerator board also using the processor, just look at the what the coldfire chip can and what bridge chips are currently available, you'd be mad not to be interested.
I suggested this a while ago, however I was told it was impossible... :-)
Nevermind...
A coldfire accelerator would be nice, since it would allow me to use my 1200 for what I ought it for: Retro gaming. Though some AMOS games would be impossible to play ( heck, they're unplayable on a clean 1200 :-D :-D :-D )
And of course with a coldfire CPU it would in theory be possible to run AmigaAnywhere/DE (or whatever they wish to call it.)
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Hi,
Time to answer a few questions: :)
1. What operating system you would like to use ?
Amiga OS 3.x is nice, but we must admit, world is changing... You will have to use it forever and that is not a path forward.
We are aiming to get the original 68K os up, No which version to start with is just an internal thing, I am hoping to go straight in at OS3.1 but we will see,
OS3.9 would be working by the time the upgrade shipped.
We may need to remake a kickstart (f it doesnt work with the Coldfire) using the Aros source (as they are doing so well and have there source codes on the net)
2. Who will write new applications for AmigaOS 3.x when there will be the 4-th, PPC version ?
Well it will be running at least 3.1, There is nothing really to stop it running on 3.1 if it runs on 3.0 (Unless you know something I dont ;-) )
(Almogst) Any 68K program will run and I hope when a Coldfire ugprade is out that people will write for it otherwise I will have to write a few programs my self.
Now thanks for the masive responce, I have just had an E-Mail from Merlancia saying they may be able to help with the Coldfire and that they have a stock of the AGA chipset which is bascially everything we need, Which is nice :)
I am happy to see so many people interested in the project, A Coldfire upgrade will be a great thing I think and it wont stop you running PPC programs as a PCI bus can be added in a short space of time letting anyone from A500 owners to A4000T owners run the new PCI G4 cards that are about to be launched.
As for the second GPU on a new system chances are it will be a standard PCI one, except if we make a laptop (I have seen the perfect screen for the project) and then it would be a surface mounted one (Probably ATI as I have talked to them before and they seemed helpfull.)
Anyway i would like to say thanks to everyone for there E-Mails, You have done very well at giving me RSI :)
Got to go now and reply to the nice guys at Merlancia
Bye
Oliver Hannaford-Day
Web Master of The Commodore CDTV Information Center @ www.cdtv.org.uk
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Oh, and having more then 2Mb of chip RAM would most likely break a large amount of software, perhaps even AmigaDOS/Workbench (now commonly referred to simply as AmigaOS) 3.x may have trouble with more then 2Mb of chip - I don't know and the only people who might really have an idea are those who have worked on the Amiga operating system or have at least viewed the source code to it.
Don't think so as Amithlon defines 8mb as Chip-Mem !
This was don because many apps still use Chip-Mem when
they are fully rtg-compatible.
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Why don't you try to use AAA? AGA makes no sense. HAM8 is good, but not perfect (color bluring).
AAA even had chunky modes!!! AAA was made by the person that made the Amiga cusom chips. Merlancia seems to have interest in Classic things, they buyed the Walker and stuff...etc.. they may have AAA (?). Maybe debbuging AAA would not be such a huge task, given sometime and passion?:) And the help of some people. Well, not me I'm afraid.
And then why don't you make the machine with specs possible to be a licensed Amiga? That would be great. I know DaveHaynie himself said AAA was not big if realeased now, let alone AGA. But still, and not being a harddware guy, there was somethings that only AGA/AAA could do right? Like draggable screens (Copper) and various resolutions at the same time etc.?
Now that would be really great:)
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Hi guys!
This project sounds exrtemely exciting ... and makes me wonder...
Why keep AGA? Get rid of it, implement UMA, and for graphics get something like sgi's Cobalt, plus PCI.
Now, that would be a cool Classic Amiga replacemtn OEM motherboard... :)
I am sure to buy one! :)
ar
santacs@freemail.hu
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AGA is here for backwards compatability which is important in atleast one of the applications we have for it. You can add a GPU to it with ease for a fully rtg system but because we are designing it, it means we can do a few alterations to make things run more smoothly.
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Whats so good about Coldfire CPU's?
Are they compatiable with 680x0? - Maybe thats whats good about them?
Will the machines be completly compatible with classic software?
I dont see the point in doing this uness the classic software is compatable with the new system.
Any information? Specs? OS?
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Rodney McDonell