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Coffee House => Coffee House Boards => CH / Science and Technology => Topic started by: bloodline on August 18, 2009, 07:18:53 PM

Title: Electronics help :)
Post by: bloodline on August 18, 2009, 07:18:53 PM
Hi all,

I have replaced my internal car lights with blue LEDs. They look great, and as so much brighter than the original lights, they are actually useful.

But I have decided I want the lights to not switch off the moment I shut the door, but instead fade down once the power is cut.

This is an easy mod, done by simply putting a capacitor in parallel with LED unit... but it has been years since I got my hands dirty with analogue electronics... can someone help me spec out what capacitor I would require?

Cheers!
Title: Re: Electronics help :)
Post by: Karlos on August 18, 2009, 08:07:12 PM
OMG, you put wanker lights inside your car?
Title: Re: Electronics help :)
Post by: Speelgoedmannetje on August 18, 2009, 08:09:38 PM
I know I used at school "Crocodile clips" to experiment with this kind of things.
Title: Re: Electronics help :)
Post by: bloodline on August 18, 2009, 08:14:53 PM
Quote from: Karlos;519796
OMG, you put wanker lights inside your car?


Um... yes... the original bulbs were the horrid festoon types... that got very hot and didn't really light up the foot wells... so 4 3volt superbright leds were installed into each socket in series, to take the 12volt supply...

Anyway, what size capacitor do I need?
Title: Re: Electronics help :)
Post by: Karlos on August 18, 2009, 08:24:32 PM
Poor MX5, you've totally killed any sense of class it had.

Are the LED's pre-resistored up for 12VDC?

-edit-

Never mind. Series wiring. Just keep sticking 1500uF 16V capacitors in parallel to the array of three diodes until you get the delay you want. Note that you'll probably have a fade on too since the capacitor charging will divert a lot of the forward current initially as they charge.
Title: Re: Electronics help :)
Post by: bloodline on August 18, 2009, 08:26:47 PM
Quote from: Karlos;519805
Poor MX5, you've totally killed any sense of class it had.

It's an MX5!!! It is hardly classy :D -Edit- but it is fun!

Quote
Are the LED's pre-resistored up for 12VDC?

Yup, they can't be overcurrented!
Title: Re: Electronics help :)
Post by: F0LLETT on August 18, 2009, 08:30:32 PM
Quote from: bloodline;519807
It's an MX5!!! It is hardly classy :D -Edit- but it is fun!



Yup, they can't be overcurrented!

LMFAO, you aint my brother are you?
He wired his calibra up with blue neons inside and out.

He always calls me Grandad, cause I have always chosen family cars.
Title: Re: Electronics help :)
Post by: bloodline on August 18, 2009, 08:38:42 PM
Quote from: Karlos;519805
-edit-

Never mind. Series wiring. Just keep sticking 1500uF 16V capacitors in parallel to the array of three diodes until you get the delay you want. Note that you'll probably have a fade on too since the capacitor charging will divert a lot of the forward current initially as they charge.

Cheers Karlos! I now know what spec capacitor I want, so I can experiment and get it right!

The harsh On/Off nature of LED is quite distracting when compared to the more organic fade up/down of incandescent bulbs
Title: Re: Electronics help :)
Post by: Karlos on August 18, 2009, 08:43:42 PM
I'm not sure a simple capacitor based mechanism is your ideal solution though. Charging and draining capacitors with a load like that isn't good for them in the long run. You'd probably want to limit the maximum current into the caps.
Title: Re: Electronics help :)
Post by: bloodline on August 18, 2009, 08:48:52 PM
Quote from: Karlos;519811
I'm not sure a simple capacitor based mechanism is your ideal solution though. Charging and draining capacitors with a load like that isn't good for them in the long run. You'd probably want to limit the maximum current into the caps.


Hmmm... I can't find any caps with 1.5kuF caps with a 16v spec either :(
Title: Re: Electronics help :)
Post by: Karlos on August 18, 2009, 08:52:49 PM
Higher voltage ratings would be OK, if you can find those. Just not less than the supply voltage.
Title: Re: Electronics help :)
Post by: bloodline on August 18, 2009, 09:09:52 PM
Quote from: Karlos;519817
Higher voltage ratings would be OK, if you can find those. Just not less than the supply voltage.


Ok, I've not played with analogue electronics for 10 years :(

I think given the amount of time the lights are on, this simple capacitor system should be fine... how long does it have to last? I think I can afford a new 20p capacitor every year or so ;)
Title: Re: Electronics help :)
Post by: the_leander on August 19, 2009, 02:51:01 AM
Quote from: Karlos;519796
OMG, you put wanker lights inside your car?


You know, it's just as well I was using the eeepc to read this - it meant that when I spat out my tea I'd already lifted the thing away from the likely trajectory :lol:

I seriously have to stop drinking anything reading this place :D
Title: Re: Electronics help :)
Post by: Tension on August 19, 2009, 01:28:22 PM
Quote from: F0LLETT;519808

He always calls me Grandad, cause I have always chosen family cars.


Ha, i`m about to buy a Volvo 850.  People think i`m mad.

But it`s a T-5 so I think i`ll have the last laugh!!
Title: Re: Electronics help :)
Post by: zipper on August 19, 2009, 03:17:14 PM
..until you notice the fuel consumption...if you have a heavy foot on gas pedal.
(V50 T5 owner)
Title: Re: Electronics help :)
Post by: kickstart on August 20, 2009, 05:37:10 AM
Wait! you put during the fix the steering on the right, joking...
Title: Re: Electronics help :)
Post by: bloodline on August 20, 2009, 12:30:46 PM
Just found a nice simple tool for this kind of thing;

A Java based circuit simulator, brilliant piece of kit with oscopes and everything :)

http://www.falstad.com/circuit/
Title: Re: Electronics help :)
Post by: Tension on August 21, 2009, 03:57:20 PM
Quote from: zipper;519937
..until you notice the fuel consumption...if you have a heavy foot on gas pedal.
(V50 T5 owner)


Plus i wont be able to park it.

Or insure it for long...
Title: Re: Electronics help :)
Post by: Oliver on September 02, 2009, 02:49:28 PM
Hi,

Late reply, but I would actually recommend higher voltage caps. Crank conditions can produce rather high voltage spikes. You can actually get caps recommended for automotive applications, but they tend to cost a fair bit more.
Title: Re: Electronics help :)
Post by: bloodline on September 06, 2009, 03:19:51 PM
Quote from: Oliver;521840
Hi,

Late reply, but I would actually recommend higher voltage caps. Crank conditions can produce rather high voltage spikes. You can actually get caps recommended for automotive applications, but they tend to cost a fair bit more.

The Farad capacity I want to use to get the desired fade down rate, only tend to come large voltages anyway :)

Unexpected expenditure (in the form of a new bed) has resulted in me pushing back any hardware projects for a while :(
Title: Re: Electronics help :)
Post by: the_leander on September 07, 2009, 01:01:59 AM
Quote from: bloodline;522261
(in the form of a new bed)


Nah... Too easy ;) :lol:
Title: Re: Electronics help :)
Post by: ChuckT on September 07, 2009, 08:09:15 AM
I was reading up on capacitors.  You want to derate capacitors by 50% because they often fail.  In other words, you can put a 12 volt cap. on a 6 volt rail.
Title: Re: Electronics help :)
Post by: bloodline on September 07, 2009, 11:51:52 AM
Quote from: the_leander;522322
Nah... Too easy ;) :lol:


No socks were harmed... Etc... ;)
Title: Re: Electronics help :)
Post by: Speelgoedmannetje on September 07, 2009, 06:19:45 PM
Quote from: bloodline;522354
No socks were harmed... Etc... ;)

Since we're talking about capacitors :lol:
Title: Re: Electronics help :)
Post by: gertsy on September 08, 2009, 01:02:50 PM
I think Wayne should make this thread sticky.  The first two posts from bloodline and Karlos are classic Amiga.org.  I luv it.

PS: I tend to agree with Karlos' appraisal.

gertsy    (o:
Title: Re: Electronics help :)
Post by: bloodline on April 20, 2012, 10:07:01 AM
Wired in a 4.7mF (24v) capacitor, looks magic (also added a 1ohm metal film resistor to give some current limiting to the capacitor).
Title: Re: Electronics help :)
Post by: Zac67 on April 20, 2012, 06:28:41 PM
@Karlos
Don't think they actually fade in unless you limit the current with a serial resistor. The battery can deliver plenty amps to load the caps, don't think it takes >100ms.