Gold 2.7 release for the Vampire accelerators

[kolla]

Since when has "doing business" become to exclusively mean "sell products"?

Are you saying Hyperion are making money by other means than selling products?

As you know the Apollo Team isn't selling Vampire boards, it is developing a core that is used on Vampire boards.

No, I really don't know where "Apollo Team" stops and "Vampire Team" begins - it's all a big blurry mess. http://www.apollo-accelerators.com - lists at the bottom "Team", without specifying whether it is "Apollo Team" or something else, but it certainly includes "Apollo Team" members. I would even go as far as to say it includes the _entire_ Apollo Team.

[kolla]

The boards where CE certified quite some time ago already.

Anyone can slap a CE marking on their product - it is a claim by manufacturer, not an approval by any official.
It is not by any means a certification.

By marking the Vampire with CE, the manufacturer takes all responsibilities in case any of the required standards are not met though, so the "Vampire Team" better know what they are doing... if someone actually tests the cards for compliance, and find that they do not meet the requirements, manufacturer and resellers are the ones with all responsibility, or in other words, deep poop.

[kolla]

It's not a slapped on CE marking, it's all done official well over a year ago.

Yes, I remember that, it doesn't change the fact that there is no such thing as "CE certification" though. CE is a _claim_ by manufacturer and resellers that the product satisfies a whole range of requirements.

[kolla]

Okay, so even you perfectly know that the team has done the certification measures officially, you write a sentence suggesting to the readers of this thread that this is not the case and that there is cheating?

No - I am pointing out that CE marking is something the manufacturer itself and the resellers are responsible for doing correctly, it is not a certification granted by an independent third party on behalf of authorities. It is all nice and cool that the V500 went through EMC testing, but CE is much more than that - it is also RoHS and other things. And the V500 above is just that one board/model, how about the V600 boards produced by Kipper2k? What about modified boards? What about the newer V4 boards? Anyways, I am saying that with CE marking, there comes certain responsibilities - is "the team", aware and able to handle these responsibilities? Or are all these responsibilities all on Majsta?

[kolla]

ApolloOS is highly illegal from a legal point of view

To find copyright owners and get approval, examine documentations regarding distribution and so on is a lot of work. That is expecially true for former commercial software. I would estimate at least 40% of time is needed for that. To say I do not give a %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@! on laws and simply ignore it saves a lot of time. Cinema4D f.e. what was included is still sold and not abandonware (of course not for amiga and reprogrammed not based on the old sources). So team members should not promote ApolloOS in public to not make them attackable in a legal sense. Vampire is if you look how many devices are sold something commercial so rules and laws have to be accepted. How much profit you do with it is not important.

Wow - screenshot worthy.

Now look over at http://www.apollo-core.com - see if you find any traces of promotion of ApolloOS there.

[kolla]

Nothing comes preinstalled on a Vampire board,

Not true - it comes with a kickstart that is pretty much a homebrew OS 3.9 kickstart - including, among other things, shell 45.39, in addition to Vampire specific ROM modules.

Whatever happened to the "Screw AmigaOS, we will just use AROS" mantra that was some time ago? I heard some AROS developers were not so happy about Apollo people doing changes to the sources without committing them upstream. How did that work out? What is it about Apollo Team and communication skills?

[kolla]

If HP had advertised illegal/cracked Windows and provided you a link to download it - I believe Microsoft would have sued them.

In this case, Apollo Team seems reluctant to support people who use "plain" AmigaOS instead of ApolloOS, and have an official support forum for "Coffin" software - http://www.apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=9

One can speculate that they gamble on facing legal consequences, would fit perfectly if they can bail out the entire "hobby project" and blame it on "copyright nazis".

[kolla]

Be concerned about your own rights but not about other people's.

Another one for the screenshot collection.

[kolla]

But as we all know this is a legal quagmire.

No, it isn't, there are lots of 68k operating systems around to build from. AROS is one. All that would be needed is an AROS kickstart with enough of a bootloader for the user to load a "real" kickstart file. Not even seriously advanced.

Heck - they even got a license to use kickstart 3.1 - why not just use that? What's with all the OS3.9 kickstart components, why are they there? Is it because another reboot would be required and certain people are overly concerned about boot times?

[kolla]

Neither is it up to you to decide. It is up to the rightsholder.

No it isn't, the righsholder can even be dead, and the work is still under copyright protection for another 70 years.

[kolla]

Then the heirs of the rightholders are the new rightholders.

That is not automatic, people also die without having heirs, and copyright still last 70 years.

Stupid law? Sure, but that's what it is.

It doesn't change anything: prosecution of copyright infringements is entirely up to the rightholder and not to anybody else. If nothing happens, it seems it doesn't matter to whom it might concern. In any case it's none of your business.

I make it my business, since you ("the team") have been so super nice with me and others. I am sure you want me to shut up, but as long as the Apollo Team keep up with arrogance and BS, I will not shut up about it.

[kolla]

Must be hard being the victim of an imaginary situation.

Nope, not hard at all. Entertaining rather.

[kolla]

I imagine the dialogue between you and the salesman when you buy a pc at the store: "the CE compliment test is done right? The license is paid? The rights holders have been contacted? How much earn the people who made the product? They are declared? They paid their taxes? Is the packaging gluten free?

Sounds like you have not bought electronic items in a very long time, or maybe you have dubious sources? Have you not noticed the pile of papers that come with just about anything you buy? Look at them, there is typically at least one sheet solely about safety and regulation conformity, and links to the support sites of the manufacturer where you can read in detail about exactly what conformity regulations the product is supposed to adhere to.

But my original question here, which somehow got lost... what entity has the responsibility for the CE compliance? Is it Majsta personally? Is it "the team"? What about V600 boards made by Kipper? With other hardware, there is rarely any doubt about who is the seller and who is the manufacturer, but in this case, with various "team" constellations and "volunteers" here and there doing the manufacturing, there is plenty to be doubtful about.

As for what I have bought myself - yes, I have returned products because they, after a little testing, turned out to not adhere to the regulations the product was marked with. Most times, the reseller were only happy to remove and recall the products, but in a handful cases I reported to Forbrukerombudet (The Consumer Ombudsman), who then did the follow-up and every now and then kept me informed.

[kolla]

If there are no heirs, the state inherits.

Exactly, and the copyright stays intact.

You are not the state.

[kolla]

Pretty please, with a cherry on top, produce an A1200 version.

Yes - I agree, bring it on! More cards! More users! More violations! More poop to hit fans!

[kolla]

Shall i resurrect commodoreamiga.ir and host CoffinOS there?

Good look trying to shut it down with western laws.

That's hardly relevant. The point here is that "CoffinOS" is an unlicensed assembly of operating system and software, officially endorsed and officially supported (and it turns out, even assembled) by the same people who sell the product it was made for. What media that is used for distribution is not relevant.