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Author Topic: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4  (Read 68531 times)

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Offline Iggy

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Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #29 from previous page: August 13, 2017, 09:41:55 PM »
Quote from: kolla;829507
Yeah, same here. Then I would want Vampire for all my systems instead of just goofing around with it on a couple.


That has been kind of the point we've been making, and I don't know about you, but I feel like I've been butting my head against a wall.
'Sounds like a good idea, if compatibility with standard fpu and mmu operations is incorporated into the design'.

I still don't see why that is an unreasonable request.
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Offline Iggy

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Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2017, 02:58:34 PM »
NXP actually allows Coldfire V1 to be incorporated into designs free of charge.
And I've never heard of anyone facing legal challenges for recreating 68K functionality in FPGAS.
In fact, many companies selling proprietary cores for the 6809 and the 68000, so I don't see this as being a serious problem.

The use and promotion of operating system software based on pirated code (ApolloOS)? That is a problem.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

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Offline Iggy

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Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2017, 01:19:54 AM »
Quote from: BozzerBigD;829627
@Hattig

Most of the software that would benefit from a speed up probably needs a FPU; Quake, Lightwave, etc. AlienBreed 3D 2 seems to be the exception but Lightwave would be more fun as would Quake and Quake 2. BOR is fun but limited in longevity. MP3 playing is fun but a Prisma would do the same thing. FPU support would silence the nay-sayers to be honest. It was a good idea to get some AGA functionality and 060 speeds on A600 and A500 machines but for A1200 and Big Box Amigans I'm guessing the Vampire will be a harder sell as most of them have an accelerator already with MMU and FPU support!


Except maybe for the A2000 owners as they do not have access to really fast accelerators. These Amigans are quite likely to find this attractive, especially with AGA functionality.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2017, 02:03:51 AM »
Quote from: Crom00;829631
Damn straight. I route all the cables out of the back and AGA on an A2000 is pretty neat.

Yep, I may come off as a bit 'dicky' because of my push for an MMU and an FPU, but outside of that, I think this will do quite nicely on my old tank A2000.
And you simply can't kill these systems, they generally don't even need recapping.
Big, solid, looks like a serious desktop computer.
Once I get the hard drives sorted out, I want to move to IDE, I'll be quite set.

Gunnar and I have had our differences (we're both an bit excentric and outspoken), but with the Vampire V4, he's definitely forgiven.

This should operate at warp speed.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2017, 07:41:04 PM »
Quote from: Nickman;829899
Only thing missing from the full Apollo core is the FPU that i know of.
And that is what most "trolls" like to point out.


By trolls, I assume you mean those that have software that requires a real fpu to shine.
You forgot about the lack of a Motorola compatible MMU, which means no BSD.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #34 on: August 23, 2017, 12:35:39 AM »
Quote from: Nickman;829902
You talk about something completely different. (Most of this post is not directed at you personally Iggy and I sincerely apologize if you get offended)


Don't sweat it, I'm not offended.
I know that there is a difference between the complete Apollo core and the core used in Vampire.
I've been quietly discussing the former as it looks like its got some real possibilities outside of Amiga applications.
And Vampire is Amiga focused.
Also, I don't understand the confusion over the specs, those published are fairly accurate.

Finally, I don't get the PPC vs Vampire argument, as neither is a replacement for the other.
I can buy both, after all.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 12:37:53 AM by Iggy »
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2017, 01:13:12 AM »
Quote from: Kremlar;829930
Huh???


I believe he's saying they should listen to the market.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #36 on: August 25, 2017, 04:36:18 PM »
Quote from: grond;830007
...I can see that there will always be people that want the original Amiga experience and not the what-could-have-been Amiga experience so to say.


'What could have been'...hmm, nope 68K was dying. What WOULD have been was a shift to RISC.
And Vampire users don't want to admit that, they want to live in a fantasy where Motorola would have continued to develop to 68K.
That wasn't going to happen, and now we have these fantastic predictions that an FPGA reimplementation of the 68K is somehow going to outperform a modern cpu.

Let's face it, Vampire IS for those that want a higher performing implementation of the original Amiga experience.
There's nothing wrong with that, it's what I'm interested in.
But pretending it's competitive with more powerful hardware is foolish and only discredits the people proposing that argument.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #37 on: August 25, 2017, 10:31:44 PM »
Quote from: kolla;830020
Yeah, Gunnar did not exactly take it kindly that I pointed out how a 5 dollar Raspberry Pi Zero outperforms the Vampire cards on his own benchmark tests.

Ironically, I have a Zero W in the A600 along with the Vampire :laughing:

It is what it is, one nice enhancement over the 68000. You would think they'd be satisfied with that, but no...
Their going to kick ARM, PPC, and X64's ass too.

For God's sake, it an FPGA.  That limits it to begin with.

But it definitely does outperform a Motorola processor (as long as fpu or mmu functions are not required).
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #38 on: August 26, 2017, 01:46:44 PM »
Quote from: grond;830062
And then there are those personalities who like to stalk other people's projects pointing out their deficiencies and expect to be thanked for it like "thank you for pointing out what an MMU and FPU may be used for; we know how to build a CPU but didn't know that!"

'Personalities' who 'stalk' others, wow, we're moving right into psychotic thought here.
I'm glad they're aware of the deficiencies of the core, and its never been my intent to be a irritant (unless those irritations help produce a pearl).

What we are, is potential consumers. And, now that the project has moved beyond a hobbyist venture, there IS an expectation of some level of professionalism on the part of the developers.
That would include addressing the market's concerns about the product, unless they intend to continue this 'Stanley Brothers' form of marketing (qualifying the buyers).
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #39 on: August 26, 2017, 06:00:19 PM »
Quote from: grond;830066
Are you referring to the famous Bluegrass act?

No, the inventors of the Stanley Steamer automobile, who interviewed customers to see if they were right for their car.

Quote from: wawrzon;830068
@kolla
ok, we already really well know how gunnar is ignorant and hurting people who know better, how he should proceed with his project. and good to know, that an amiga compatible is not capable of running a linux distro, because it is very important for every true amiga user to run linux on his hardware. thanks for pointing this out constantly.

Screw Linux, you can't run BSD either.
I can run Linux on my PPC hardware, but BSD has been part of our history for a long time.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2017, 06:02:36 PM by Iggy »
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #40 on: August 29, 2017, 12:15:07 PM »
Quote from: Rotzloeffel;830204
That´s what I said.... no FPU no grazy things :) same with MMU...

If these applications you mentioned above are "grazy Things" for you, it is OK....

For me, the 68080 is the fastest available 68k CPU... why not use it for existing grazy 68k applications WITHOUT limits ?


WTF is a 'grazy' thing?
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #41 on: August 29, 2017, 02:47:09 PM »
Quote from: David Wright;830210
Crazy x2.


OK...and how are apps that require an mmu or an fpu crazy X2?
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #42 on: August 30, 2017, 05:59:46 PM »
Quote from: kolla;830222
"V4 will of course have 68882 compatible FPU."


Source for that quote?
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #43 on: August 31, 2017, 02:11:22 PM »
The Atari ST could use an accelerator that doesn't introduce timing issues into the chipset.
And the Vampires built-in MMU remapping ability may prove very useful once someone commits to exploring Vampire use in the ST more thoroughly.

Its also great to see a firm commitment to a Motorola standard FPU implementation.

Maybe we ought to come up with terms/phrases that differentiate between the hidden MMU remapping capabilities and any Motorola layer added later.

And its nice to see the realists and the 'fanbois' more unified behind this project.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 06:18:50 PM by Iggy »
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #44 on: August 31, 2017, 06:17:46 PM »
Quote from: kolla;830266
???

:confused:


Sorry...fpu.

That was confused, wasn't it.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"