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Author Topic: Does Install erase a disk?  (Read 3614 times)

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Offline Thomas

Re: Does Install erase a disk?
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2021, 06:41:01 PM »
When I boot from the OS 3.9 emergency disk, FS3's icon doesn't even appear on the WB screen.

This seems to match the other symptoms. What if you boot from the 3.1 Workbench disk?


Quote
I have to go to HDToolbox to find it (SCSI address 0). 

But the partition is still there?


Quote
Should I reformat it and load OS 3.1 back on it and then run your program?

No, that's not necessary. If HDToolbox finds the partition, then HDDReport should find it, too. Just run it.

As a first try to fix the issue, boot from a floppy disk from where you see the FS3 drive (WB 3.1 probably), go to the Devs folder of FS3 and rename the file AmigaOS ROM Update to something else.

 
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Offline Michele31415Topic starter

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Re: Does Install erase a disk?
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2021, 05:18:52 PM »
Holy moly, Thomas - you're a genius!  I renamed that file, removed the OS 3.1 floppy, did a CTL-A-A reboot and hey presto, it booted right into FS3: running OS 3.9!  I've been pulling my hair out over this for a week now.  Problem solved.  Thank you so much!
Active: B2000 4.4, A2630, GVP 2000 HC+8, DKB 2632, SCSI2SD, Gotek, Deneb USB, XSurf 3cc, CD ROM, Megachip 2000, ECS Agnus, Denise, OS 3.9, GVP Spectrum EGS 28/24, Silicon Springs GOMF
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Offline Thomas

Re: Does Install erase a disk?
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2021, 10:43:25 AM »

It's not really a solution but rather a workaround. By renaming the ROM update file you actually deactivated one half of OS 3.9. The better solution would have been to investigate which part of the ROM update causes the software error and exclude it explicitly.

There might still be an issue with your system, you just don't notice any more.

Offline olsen

Re: Does Install erase a disk?
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2021, 10:58:15 AM »
...

So if I say "install fs3:" will that erase all the files I copied from the USB stick?

The "Install" command (all the versions which shipped with Workbench 1.x, 2.x, 3.x and also 4.x) is safe to use with storage devices which aren't df0, df1, df2 or df3. The "worst" that could happen is that the "Install" command will complain with the somewhat unspecific error message "object is of the wrong type" (what is that "object"? it's the device you wanted to install a boot block on) or just printing the command template ("Usage: INSTALL [DRIVE] {DF0:|DF1:|DF2:|DF3:} [NOBOOT][CHECK]") again.

The "Install" command versions which shipped with Workbench versions 1.x, 2.x, 3.1, 3.5 and 3.9) are restricted to df0-df9 and (2.x onwards) cc0-cc9 (for the Amiga 600 and Amiga 1200). If you had unwisely picked any of these storage device names for your USB stick partition name, then strange things would have happened. These "Install" command versions make assumptions about the storage device driver (df0-df9 will give you "trackdisk.device" and cc0-cc9 will give you "carddisk.device").

Things are a little bit different for the "Install" commands which shipped with AmigaOS 4.x, 3.1.4, 3.1.4.1 and 3.2. The 3.2 and 4.x versions will do their utmost to verify that the storage device to install a boot block on makes sense. For example, any floppy disk drive is configured to feature two reserved blocks at the very beginning of the storage medium which are not available for file system use, and the disk covers the entire storage medium (i.e. the "df0:" device configuration includes both the very first and very last cylinder of the medium: this is never true for the partitions defined by an Amiga RDB block created by HDToolbox, etc.). These are the basic criteria for a storage device which could make use of a boot block: the boot block goes into these two reserved blocks (there must be enough room for at least 1024 bytes of floppy disk boot block code) and should not accidentally damage any data stored there. Otherwise you might end up knocking out the partition, etc. information stored in an Amiga RDB block which defines the layout and properties of all the partitions on the storage medium, and then some.

What about the 3.1.4 and 3.1.4.1 versions then? Just like the 4.x and 3.2 versions they allow you to use the "Install" command with storage devices other than df0-df0 and cc0-cc1 and figure out the correct storage device driver for the respective device (e.g. it determines that df0 is associated with trackdisk.device unit 0 instead of assuming that df0 must correspond to trackdisk.device unit 0). Unlike the 4.x and 3.2 versions, however, they are less paranoid when it comes to check if the storage device should have a boot block installed on it. Also, the 4.x and 3.2 versions really verify if the boot block found on such a storage device features a correct checksum (none of the other versions ever did that).

That's the (perhaps overly) long explanation ;)  You should be unable to destroy your hard disk or USB stick partitions using the "Install" command, but you should not need to use the "Install" command on these either if you have already used HDToolbox (or a more capable and less quirky/brittle such partitioning tool) to set up a storage device. The "Install" command is really just for storage devices which the Amiga operating system considers special (such as df0-df9 and cc0-cc9). For all other storage devices there would be a hard disk controller such as for the IDE or SCSI hardware in the Amiga 4000T which upon system startup looks for Amiga RDB partitioning information on its connected devices.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2021, 01:03:39 PM by olsen »
 

Offline Michele31415Topic starter

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Re: Does Install erase a disk?
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2021, 04:47:02 PM »

It's not really a solution but rather a workaround. By renaming the ROM update file you actually deactivated one half of OS 3.9. The better solution would have been to investigate which part of the ROM update causes the software error and exclude it explicitly.

There might still be an issue with your system, you just don't notice any more.
Oh?  Bummer then.  Which half?  Is there a way to figure that out?  In playing around with it yesterday, I'm having trouble getting my x-surf 3 card to connect to the net.  I also can't find the screensaver icon that's supposed to be in Prefs.
Active: B2000 4.4, A2630, GVP 2000 HC+8, DKB 2632, SCSI2SD, Gotek, Deneb USB, XSurf 3cc, CD ROM, Megachip 2000, ECS Agnus, Denise, OS 3.9, GVP Spectrum EGS 28/24, Silicon Springs GOMF
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Offline Michele31415Topic starter

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Re: Does Install erase a disk?
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2021, 04:50:02 PM »

The "Install" command (all the versions which shipped with Workbench 1.x, 2.x, 3.x and also 4.x) is safe to use with storage devices which aren't df0, df1, df2 or df3. The "worst" that could happen is that the "Install" command will complain with the somewhat unspecific error message "object is of the wrong type" (what is that "object"? it's the device you wanted to install a boot block on) or just printing the command template ("Usage: INSTALL [DRIVE] {DF0:|DF1:|DF2:|DF3:} [NOBOOT][CHECK]") again.
...
Thank you for taking the time to write such a comprehensive explanation of this command.  This post ought to be made a sticky for future reference.
Active: B2000 4.4, A2630, GVP 2000 HC+8, DKB 2632, SCSI2SD, Gotek, Deneb USB, XSurf 3cc, CD ROM, Megachip 2000, ECS Agnus, Denise, OS 3.9, GVP Spectrum EGS 28/24, Silicon Springs GOMF
Retired: A2088, 8-Up, A2090a, Oktagon 2008, Kitchen Sync
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Offline kolla

Re: Does Install erase a disk?
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2021, 12:59:11 AM »
I also can't find the screensaver icon that's supposed to be in Prefs.
Maybe because it’s not supposed to be there.
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Offline Steady

Re: Does Install erase a disk?
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2021, 01:13:27 AM »
@Michele31415

Perhaps you are confusing this with the Blanker commodity. Found in SYS:Tools/Commodities.
 

Offline Michele31415Topic starter

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Re: Does Install erase a disk?
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2021, 01:21:29 AM »
Active: B2000 4.4, A2630, GVP 2000 HC+8, DKB 2632, SCSI2SD, Gotek, Deneb USB, XSurf 3cc, CD ROM, Megachip 2000, ECS Agnus, Denise, OS 3.9, GVP Spectrum EGS 28/24, Silicon Springs GOMF
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Offline kolla

Re: Does Install erase a disk?
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2021, 06:57:09 AM »
 No, that is OS4.
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Offline Thomas

Re: Does Install erase a disk?
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2021, 10:18:32 AM »

Blanker is in Tools/Commodities.
 
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Offline Michele31415Topic starter

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Re: Does Install erase a disk?
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2021, 01:15:54 AM »

Blanker is in Tools/Commodities.
Thanks.  That's what I was looking for.  It wasn't mentioned in any of the search results I got.
Active: B2000 4.4, A2630, GVP 2000 HC+8, DKB 2632, SCSI2SD, Gotek, Deneb USB, XSurf 3cc, CD ROM, Megachip 2000, ECS Agnus, Denise, OS 3.9, GVP Spectrum EGS 28/24, Silicon Springs GOMF
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Offline Michele31415Topic starter

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Re: Does Install erase a disk?
« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2021, 01:19:14 AM »
No, that is OS4.
I see.  I guess I was confused because I followed a search result there and there was no mention of it being for OS 4 on that page.  You have to go back to the Main page and then read halfway down before finding a single reference to "4.0" there.  So can I upgrade from 3.9 to 4.0?  I seem to recall reading somewhere that 3.9 was the end of the line for the A2000.
Active: B2000 4.4, A2630, GVP 2000 HC+8, DKB 2632, SCSI2SD, Gotek, Deneb USB, XSurf 3cc, CD ROM, Megachip 2000, ECS Agnus, Denise, OS 3.9, GVP Spectrum EGS 28/24, Silicon Springs GOMF
Retired: A2088, 8-Up, A2090a, Oktagon 2008, Kitchen Sync
Busted: A2091
 

Offline kolla

Re: Does Install erase a disk?
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2021, 01:20:46 PM »
No, that is OS4.
So can I upgrade from 3.9 to 4.0?  I seem to recall reading somewhere that 3.9 was the end of the line for the A2000.
No, you cannot upgrade - OS4.0 (and upwards, latest is 4.1FE update 2 - "final edition") is for PowerPC systems.

I won't comment on what is end of line for the A2000, it depends on who you ask - 3.9 is one option, 3.2 is another option, many would argue that it really is 3.1.
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Offline nbache

Re: Does Install erase a disk?
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2021, 07:22:22 PM »
Instead of calling anything "end of line", at least this can be said:

3.1 was the last version with involvement from the "original" Commodore.

Then Haage & Partners (read: developers working for ...) made 3.5 and 3.9 based on 3.1. Some of the sources of those components were owned by the contributors and were not put back into the official AmigaOS repository, while others were.

Then Hyperion (read: same same ...) made 4.x, which, as Kolla writes, is now at 4.1 Final Edition Update 2 plus a few smaller updates. 4.x is a fully ported (and further developed) version for PowerPC machines aka NG Amigas and won't work on 68k machines.

Then, for classic Amigas/68k, some other developers made 3.1.4 and 3.2 based on 3.1 plus some 68k reimplementations of some of the 4.x parts as well as some other improvements (I haven't tried it, so others may be better at describing it). Hyperion also marketed these.

So 3.5/3.9 may be an end of one line, but other lines have taken over the various needs of transportation (to stay in the terminology).

I think that's about it?

Best regards,

Niels
 

Offline kolla

Re: Does Install erase a disk?
« Reply #29 from previous page: September 18, 2021, 07:58:17 AM »
Then, for classic Amigas/68k, some other developers made 3.1.4 and 3.2 based on 3.1 plus some 68k reimplementations of some of the 4.x parts as well as some other improvements
For 3.1.4, they weren’t “other developers”, they were pretty much the same ones that also worked on 3.5 and 3.9, most of the key components also came from 3.9 just as much as from 3.1 directly, only a few came via 4.x. The only missing 3.9 components were all the ReAction classes and resource.library, and software relying on these, essentially all OS3.9 Reaction based prefs programs. Oh, and HDToolBox (and hdwrench.library) by Joan Dow. With 3.2 ReAction classes and various other components/features were ported/reimplemented back from OS 4.x, and some developers replaced in the process. Noteworthy is that key developer and one if the two original initiative takers of 3.1.4 and arguably the most influential OS 3.2 developer (you know who), left the OS team long before its release, and is now seen arguing with some of the current developers (the usual very opinionated suspects) over certain choices done for the OS 3.2 release. So I would argue that the REAL end-of-line OS release for A2000 (and the other 68k systems) is currently on the hard drive of ThoR :)

And this brings us back to what Amiga is REALLY about - drama! - arguing, whining, bickering, blaming, entitlement, huge egos, besserwissers, splitting, forking, hacking, patching… :)
« Last Edit: September 18, 2021, 08:01:12 AM by kolla »
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A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS