What will drive the New Amiga?

[BigBenAussie]

I think we're all losing the plot here.

We are starting to think either like PC users, with out thirst for apps, or Console user with our thirst for games.

We have to get back to basics as to what the Amiga actually was in the beginning.

The Amiga was a microcomputer and that is a different concept to either a PC or a console.

A microcomputer was a hobbiests or leisure machine. It was a joy to use an Amiga vs a PC. The Amiga was a plug in and go platform, and if you didn't want to you didn't have to go anywhere near the OS.

We need to go back to the Amiga's roots, it was a games console that could be used as a computer. It was a super Commodore 64.

What we need now is a super Amiga. Unfortunately we cannot obtain as significant an advantage as the original Amiga made. So now we need to make a compromise.

What it was that made the Amiga great is synonymous with what its reputation was.

It wowed in terms of Multimedia and astonishing graphics.
It wowed in terms of games.
It wowed the geeks at the time in terms of its OS, but I don't think people were nearly as interested in that, at the time as us current enthusiasts are. The OS did not sell the system.

The games and the demos and the graphics were slick. The OS is not, but it should be made to be, with at the very least a skinnable interface.

We are all looking at AOS4 to renew the platform and make it more functional, however this is a PC perspective. We shouldn't even be thinking of competing with the PC because from a price perspective, offering the same thing, or worse for more money is not going to cut it.

We need the Amiga to go back to do what it is good at, and the OS is just the icing on the cake for those that want to use its advanced functionality.

If you've done any research on Garry Hare(KMOS) you will see that his background is in streaming media and content distribution. It is obvious that it is his intention that the Amiga pursue that route.

The most popular Amiga, the A500 was popular because you could plug it into a TV, like a console. You wouldn't even think of hooking your PC to TV. You do with Consoles but then you're trapped in the dumbed down gaming concepts of consoles.

IMO the NG Amiga should be a set top box or hifi component. Not quite a console, but a thinking mans advanced leisure machine.

My wishlist for features that could be done from an enhanced front end, like DVD menus would be.
* The ability to Play or Burn DVDs and CDs.
* The ability to play the latest game on demand. (Even old games through UAE)
* Cable (HDTV) ready built in.
* The ability to record programs to HD or DVD like Tivo.
* The ability to browse the internet and access e-mail.
* The ability to easily sync ipod and pdas.

You would automatically be able to download and play the latest music or music videos on demand.

Having games on Demand is a similar concept to the Phantom console. It negates the need for the distribution of software to stores which is probably a tough nut to crack and developers would immediately reap a reward. Piracy could be diminshed because Gary Hare already has a methodology which prevents the entirety of the software to be transmitted at any one time.

As a set top machine it should have a (Radio) cordless mouse and keyboard that you can use from a couch. I have one of these for my PC plugged into my TV and its awesome and very very usable. Not many people would think to do such a thing, but let me tell you are missing out on a concept I believe the Amiga once ruled and can rule again.

The look of the system should be like a "Sharper Image" product. It should be stylish and retro, With shiny metal and glowing blue bits. My preference would be to house a small portable keyboard in a garage underneath like the A1000 and maybe have a little slot for the Mouse so you don't lose it and it can recharge. The case should also be small and slick. The cheapest motherboard should be used, because I would imagine that its the 3d card that makes the difference. It should come with the most kick ass 3d card available at the time, but that component should be upgradable even if the CPU is not. If they want to upgrade then there are A1 desktop boxes that a lot of you are interested in.

The users may eventually be coaxed to use the Amiga OS, rather than a graphical front end, to do stuff like word processing and the like, but right now, its the concept and features that bridge the PC world and the console world, that niche called leisure computing, which is where the Amiga could excel.

I think what we have to understand that the future market, where the brand counts, comes not from providing the same stuff as before, but revamping the new and innovative ideas that the original Amiga touted and is famous for.

We want go faster machines and we'll get them. The general public wants something else entirely, to what they currently have and they want to buy into the Amiga spirit of innovation and slickness. I think we're just lucky that Apple haven't jumped into the set-top market yet, or we'll be finished.


I believe that people would be willing to pay the premium for such versatile hardware.

And now that I've made my sentiments clear let me talk about garnering developer support.

I agree that Amiga developers should ultimately make a profit.
We should have an "Amiga only" software developers website. On such a website developers could share code and develop a common development framework for 3d games and the like. Developers would have to become members at a fee, in order to further develop and use code that is only usable to the membership. The code is not to be used outside of Amiga platform products unless it is heavily advertising the Amiga platform. Technology, games and apps are to be voted on and project managed by volunteers. Effort expended is to be determined by each elected project manager with money going to developers of the core reused code as well as developers that made the particular project.

For instance, the community bands together to build a kickass 3d engine with tasks assigned by the project manager. The project manager assigns share to the developers based on their contributions. Another project like a gran turismo clone, uses the 3d engine. Their effort is added to the core effort and a percentage share is assigned to each of those developers. Eventually when the game is distributed/sold the shares of the profits are distributed.

The share or units, sort of like Amiga money could be used as a motivation for Amiga developers. That Amiga money could also be used to purchase other Amiga products. The goal of the website would be to create killer apps and games for the Amiga ONLY. The status of a developer's Amiga money bank account and shares would be maintained on the website like a hall of fame. This could be displayed because developers are intensely competitive. There should also be competitions to drive the technology further with rewards like more Amiga money to purchase Amiga hardware and software. This is paid by membership incidentally which could slowly be raised as the tech advantage to becoming a member improves. Obviously Amiga money can be used against annual membership or forgone completely once a developer has reached a particular level and is a major contributor.

[BigBenAussie]

@ Defender of the Faith

>I think your post illustrates quite clearly why Amigas will never be a success again.

I might argue the same for your reply. I thought you were a Defender of the Faith.

> Far too many people are stuck with the 1985 mentality, and believe that attempting to turn
> the clock back will bring back success. The idea that there will again be custom
> microcomputers that revolutionise what is available on a desktop at low prices is
> laughable, as is the thought that people would once again get tied to the custom hard to
> expand system mentality of 20 years ago.

Far too many people?? So you're saying that people that will back me up on this and this is a bad thing.

I think you're missing the point of my post. Its not about the hardware, its about the feeling of the platform that is the differentiation to new CONSUMERS not the current userbase. The reminiscence to the microcomputer era when computers were fun and exciting are a MAJOR draw. Its what the market has lacked for quite some time.

The stagnation of the PC market I believe counters your point in that people aren't as interested in going faster as they were before(at least until MS releases its next version of its bloatware). We've reached a speed usability threshold.

Power users care about speed, but not everyone else does if the speed of the processor is irrelevant to the thing they want to do. My whole point is that provided a system is usable and looks like the latest thing I don't need to upgrade. Tell me what the average user needs speed for these days? I know it sounds like a dumb question, but the fact of the matter is that speed has reached an acceptable level where everything is possible. AOS will be zippy enough even on hardware that is behind. The natural advantage is that the Amiga doesn't have bloatware slowing it down.
Apart from 3d games why do I need to upgrade?
That's the PC mentality you're falling into. The Amiga should not be trying to be a PC, it should be trying to be a leisure computer. A multimedia device that hides the fact that it is a computer. It should hide all its geek stuff except for those that are interested. I was discussing a consumer device, the quad G5s are for the current userbase, we can't expect newbies to fork out that much, without giving them a taste first.

> The success of 20 years ago was to a large extent due to the favourable conditions and lack > of real competition. PC's were a joke in terms of gaming or animations and they cost an arm and > a leg. Elsewhere there was only the ST or the 8-bit micros to worry about. A market ripe for
> the taking.

An Amiga branded slick multimedia consumer box does not exist at the moment. It is a market ripe for the making too.

> Not so today. You won't beat PCs for price, and most likely not for performance, software or > games either. Without massive investment in R&D, you won't beat them on technology either.

You have missed my obvious point. WE DON'T NEED TO!!! We need to combine the various features into a single unit that are seamless in a way they aren't on PCs.

> Living in the past won't make Amigas great again. Something fresh, visionary and innovative
> is needed, and the need is to look to the future for answers, not the past.

You have to face facts. The Amiga is a famous retro platform and you need to cash in on what it did best. There are new innovative things we can make it do, in terms of what I already discussed, which are harder to implement on a PC desktop. The complexity of the PC desktop is what we should be avoiding in a consumer version of the Amiga. We can play games like the consoles too, but provide much more in terms of usability. The consoles are always going to undercut us as does the PC hardware. The answer is not to compete in their markets. There is a niche market opening up, and along with the goodwill towards the Amiga it is ripe for the taking, and its a pity you can't see it.

[BigBenAussie]

I think the days of hitting the hardware are over for all but consoles. As soon as you have to deal with graphic cards and sound cards you can't do it any more because of the diversity. The Amiga won't have the common hardware that its always had. Bearing in mind the time for the Amiga chipsets to be advanced this can only be a good thing. We can take the best things from the PC world and leave the rest behind. The Demo coders wont have as much to play with, and one might argue that it lowers the fresh-hold for new demo coders.

Back on topic.

I can't understand all the nay-sayers. At this point any direction is better than none!!! Ainc had no direction and everything has stagnated as a result. You're all scared and traumatised, but you have to realise there is so much opportunity right now. We'll probably get one crack at this and the follow on effects will be felt by all. We have one chance to make an impact, and a new motherboard alone is not going to do it. We need to bring Amiga to the masses somehow, even if it is as a dumbed down machine. At the very least an Amiga needs a consumer presence, more so than merely a motherboard that only caters to currently small usergroup. The market from the existing userbase is just too small and none of the companies in control of Amiga's future would be in it, if they thought they were just gonna sell a few motherboards and OSs. The Amiga must be reborn. Even moderate success would be better than nothing.

Let me give you another example as to how an Amiga could be marketed. I would get my parents an Amiga multimedia convergence box tomorrow if it was easy to use. Computers scare them. They can't even write me an e-mail. Imagine pressing an e-mail button on your keyboard remote and being able to write an e-mail immediately on your TV. Practically everyone can turn on a TV. Yeah, there are keyboard shortcuts on PCs but you're missing the point. PCs scare people and are not cool(except for geeks).

MS is dead against putting Windows on XBox because of the backlash they'd get. Sony will steer away from letting their machine be a computer, as that's too geeky. They might do a little multimedia and CD burning though, but in their competition with MS for the niche games market they'll always be looking at the lower end. The Amiga can fit above these and below a PC. The Amiga should be a mixture of the best aspects of both the PC platform and the consoles. That's what I felt it was originally, and that regard an Amiga would be heading back towards its roots and its core competency.

[BigBenAussie]

The other thing to mention is that building such a set top box, succeed or fail, is not a bad step for the Amiga community as we simply will have a different footprint for our favourite hardware. Its all good. Not even all the current Amiga community cares to upgrade to the fastest or most versatile thing available. An entry level set top box harms no-one and may just get some newbies back on board.

There is no reason why we can't take more than one tack in reinvigorating the Amiga platform.

I wanted to comment on the PSX2 Linux upgrade. I considered purchasing it, because I thought it would be cool to play around with programming on it. Although realistically speaking you can do that on any platform. It made me think back to the excitement I used to have in my early attempts at programming and how easy it used to be. Although I was programming well before this, I did like the concept of the c64 Epyx programming toolkit? Apart from limiting you to 16k, you couda written c64 Winter Games with it.

The thing that I would like for the Amiga platform is something like AMOS, or a games/graphics toolkit that is easy to use and understand so that hobbiests regardless of their level of competency can have a go at programming. Admittedly, it is a throwback to the microcomputer era but if you listen to a lot of the posts on the newsgroups you find that hobbiests are clamouring to help build the platform but lack the necessary skills to immediately program something. A dumbed down basic like programming platform that can manipulate 3d objects and landscapes to create a game would be magnificent. If it allows the creation of apps all the better. We have the opportunity to create a standard mechanism for issue on all Amigas like the basic that once came on all computers. Except this would be a super basic, maybe even compiled.

As for AROS, its a pity you can't use the Amiga name to slap on a box with x86 hardware. Hmmm. Unless Gary lets you. Then this would take away our reliance on more expensive PPC hardware and we could then be competitive with PCs as a platform. I know, it sounds schizo. I'm just brainstorming guys!!! :-). Hmmm the more I think about it, the hardware is keeping us back really, but without hardware we can't be taken seriously as a platform. We can't do it on software alone because linux eats us alive as a viable alternative platform for PCs. I think Amiga went PPC because everyone was too snobby to go the x86 route which woulda made more economic sense but woulda led to an outcry from the community. We have to live with the choices I guess and make it work.