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AuthorTopic: What will drive the New Amiga?  (Read 15552 times)

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Offline Damion

Re: No AROS mentioned?
« Reply #60 on: March 23, 2004, 09:12:47 AM »
Honestly I think the demand for a "Windows alternative" is
entirely exaggerated. Most people think Linux sucks, simply
becasue it doesn't run xyz app. The consumer could care less
about the OS itself, the question is "can it do what I need
it to do, and how cheap?" Things like brand recognition and
"OS feel" are meaningless in this market.

Another thing...a trashy web-box with a boingball on it is
a TERRIBLE idea...we had those here already 5+ years ago, minus
the logo, and they totally bombed. Besides, people have long
been catching on to the idea of connecting PC's to their
televisions (IMHO).
 

Offline IonDeluxe

Re: What will drive the New Amiga?
« Reply #61 on: March 23, 2004, 09:20:04 AM »
@Marktime

I understand what you are on about. Its about changing the mindset of the people to measure our success in different ways so we can present a positive attitude. Also about changing the mindset from beating OS* to setting our own goals and achieving them, to succeed in what we want to do, not to succeed in what other guys are doing, and beating them at it, at least not yet.

@bigAussie

I know what you are getting at also, it is similar to what I was saying earlier, and what someone else was saying about portable devices.

@all
all these ideas have merit, and require a change in the attitude an mindset of everyone in the AMiga Scene.Its time to forget about what everyone else is doing, what everyone else thinks is thier way forward, and define our own goals and direction. To do that we need a clear objective, a clear meathod of reaching it and to find a market where our objectives will translate directly into sales.

Here is what I think.

The "leisure market" that was talked about was the same place as the one I was talking about it, we just came from different angles.We can expand this particular section to include the mobile market. I would prefer to call it the "semi mobile' or better still the "portable" market.

The old Amigas were portable (A500 A600 a1200 cd32), you could throw em in a bag and walk over to your mates place and have a ball. They are not laptops, though they would compete with them but you could do it at a lower price point as you can have a larger case, and hence the cheaper components. You could even add a power supply if you really wanted for say 90 minutes.This could be an optional extra.

THe old amigas were pretty much plug the thing in and play, you rarely bothered with the OS unless you were into recording and stuff, the bonus of the classic AMigas.

We need a central server based machine where it can surf the internet, print and do work, be a gateway, file server, print server for the household.Many many people have more than one computer in the house nowdays.

This can be supported with small mobile devices, that network from the Amiga, as handhelds or "workstations/netpc's"

To do this we need software like a good browser, chat clients, sound system, good graphics capability, very good networking capability, recording software DVD and wireless option built in would be a bonus. Once we have the software it needs to be integrated and as transparent as possible so those that dont want to know anything about computers dont have to.Meanwhile the rest of the functions need to be accessable by the "geeks"

Put all this together and what do we have?
We have a system that replaces the DVD/vcr recorder, supplies the surround sound for the entertainment system, plugs directly into a TV, and preferablet can fulfill the functions of the cable tv service provider box.You can also use it for games, office work, and other computer/console activities, that is also portable. It should also have its own(optional) LCD or similar screen.This system would be great for the home, and especially good for those single people working studying people. How much do all those seperate components cost?

Surround system: around $400 for a decent one
DVD about $150
Stereo $400
VCR $150
on top of that you have a PC
$900 is about the cheapest you get here and that has no graphics card worth speaking of so add $400 to that
Adds up to say a round figure of $2500.
Now if we can build a small box that can do all these things with similar quality for $1500-$2000 then we have a market, and the this is portable to-boot.
Then all we need to do is market it properly to get it in homes.

I have seen this beginning to happen slowly on other platforms, but they dont cover all the bases and the saftware if FAR from the point I have stated here.
We dont need to beat everything these seperate units can do, we just have to be compareable and price competetive, that its all in one unit and that unit is portable can be the selling points.

In this fashion we can get units in home and make a sizeable userbase for OS4 that will in turn attract more developers.

Quote
I\\\'d post something satirical, but I\\\'m afraid it might get used as genuine evidence in the Thendic Amiga trial!
 

Offline Hammer

Re: What will drive the New Amiga?
« Reply #62 on: March 23, 2004, 09:31:17 AM »
Quote

My wishlist for features that could be done from an enhanced front end, like DVD menus would be.
* The ability to Play or Burn DVDs and CDs.
* The ability to play the latest game on demand. (Even old games through UAE)
* Cable (HDTV) ready built in.
* The ability to record programs to HD or DVD like Tivo.
* The ability to browse the internet and access e-mail.
* The ability to easily sync ipod and pdas.

Erm, Windows XP Media Centre 2004 PCs already has most of the mentioned features today. Australia has (nearly) always been late in obtaining the latest products.

Quote
You would automatically be able to download and play the latest music or music videos on demand.

Such activities are already has been done (legality is another issue) via P2P networks today. Then again, there's iTune for legal music download.

PS; I envy your optimism in relation to AOS based solution.
AmigaForever 2016 with AmigaOS 4.1 FE, AMIDuOS\'s Android 5.01, MS Windows 10 Pro X64
Samsung ATIV Book 8 880Z5E laptop with touch screen.
CPU: Intel Core i7-3635QM, 2.4Ghz base, 3.4Ghz turbo.
RAM: 16 GB PC3-12800 (DDR3-1600)
GPU: AMD Radeon HD 8870M (OC) 2GB GDDR5 VRAM.
SSD: 512 GB Samsung 840
 

Offline Hammer

Re: What will drive the New Amiga?
« Reply #63 on: March 23, 2004, 09:48:05 AM »
Quote

The old Amigas were portable (A500 A600 a1200 cd32), you could throw em in a bag and walk over to your mates place and have a ball. They are not laptops, though they would compete with them but you could do it at a lower price point as you can have a larger case, and hence the cheaper components. You could even add a power supply if you really wanted for say 90 minutes.This could be an optional extra.

This target market could have a chance...

Threats are;
1. Sony's Playstation 2 with Linux kit (i.e. yet another (but *crippled*) Linux distro; not in the level of Lindows).
2. High performance SFF PCs(with MCE compliant video cards).
AmigaForever 2016 with AmigaOS 4.1 FE, AMIDuOS\'s Android 5.01, MS Windows 10 Pro X64
Samsung ATIV Book 8 880Z5E laptop with touch screen.
CPU: Intel Core i7-3635QM, 2.4Ghz base, 3.4Ghz turbo.
RAM: 16 GB PC3-12800 (DDR3-1600)
GPU: AMD Radeon HD 8870M (OC) 2GB GDDR5 VRAM.
SSD: 512 GB Samsung 840
 

Offline IonDeluxe

Re: What will drive the New Amiga?
« Reply #64 on: March 23, 2004, 10:13:20 AM »
Yes I know, but the units I have seen leave alot to be desired yet. They are basicly just boards with alot of stuff onboard in a small square box.Its not very attractive and you can "choose" certain options for the one expansion slot.Otherwise they are a standard PC in all respects, just a funky box.

What I am talking about would be a similar kind of thing, but as we are starting from scratch and if we actively target this area from both a hardware AND software/os point of view, we could have a far more attractive (as in the case) unit with much better integration and ease of use.The bonus of which is that it is also a computer.

This is what whatshisname was talking about in the politics: They define thier product as a MMCE unit(a cut down PC for multimedia device replacement) We approach it from the Family entertainment unit that also happens to be a solid  multimedia computer. Its very hard to compete with wintel stuff, so we change our perspective and target it from an electronics device point of view. If the case design and marketing is right we could really make some sales like this.

Quote
I\\\'d post something satirical, but I\\\'m afraid it might get used as genuine evidence in the Thendic Amiga trial!
 

Offline stuart

Re: What will drive the New Amiga?
« Reply #65 on: March 23, 2004, 10:44:27 AM »
If you're still reading this...then here's my gem... :roll:

Whilst I do not condone software piracy, :-o I remember that it was a major part of my amiga experience during the 80s and 90s. I used to swap disks with friends at school, the point was to see and play the newest games and demos. There was what seemed an endless supply of new games all the time...I dunno what anyone can make of that, but that's what made amiga (and commodore 64 for that matter) fun.

getting to more honourable pursuits... The exciting part of watching demos was seeing how cleverly the chips had been programmed and what impressive results were achieved.

 :banana: I think this level of coding expertise can still be expressed through modern amigas because even though you cannot anticipate what hardware a person will have on their system, there are standards and a handful of chip manufacturers that actually limits us to a common RANGE of chips to program just like was done on the custom chips of old...

:argue: This brings me to another point about amiga that can draw us through to success - We have the opportunity to have a platform that can utilise the hardware on graphic and audio cards etc to much greater detail than PCs and Macs do...can't we?

VR is another area the amiga could excell at. It's still not an 'everage joe' product yet... ;-)

:angel: I hope that Amiga always stands for fast, small, reliable, acurate codes. The Amiga will never be exactly the same as what it was (is) but we can bring with us the best parts and work on the bits that are lacking...cant we?

I apologise that my thoughts are not fully thought through, but I'm at work and only have a few minutes to post...

Cheers, Stu.  :pint:
 

Offline Waccoon

Re: What will drive the New Amiga?
« Reply #66 on: March 23, 2004, 11:56:12 AM »
Quote

Quote
Didn't miss it at all. AROS is not a company

Neither is Linux. :)

Linux is more organized than many companies.  Really, I like Linux.  It's XWindows, Gnome, KDE, and the lack of standards that drive me nuts.  Open source developers specialize in making parts, but it takes a company with strong central management to build proper systems for customers.  The more I learn about Linux, the more dumb it seems to me to make a completely new OS.  Why not just make a new shell/desktop for Linux?  Have all the drivers you want!

Quote
Windows is so ubiquitous that it is very easy to hack

Everything is "out of the box".  Raw Linux security is a joke.  Enterprise versions of Linux feature lots of security systems similar to Windows, but they'll cost you plenty.

Run any program in your own account, and you can kiss all your files goodbye.  Your system will be plenty safe, though.  :lol:

Quote
Note that Netscape use to have a dominate position

Netscape sucked.  It crashed all the time and tried to use CSS when it was completely incapable of handling it, so it often drew blank pages even with fully compliant CSS.

...as I am figuring out.  I've ceased all NS4 support for my website.  It makes me wonder how the 'Net every lived with that damn browser.

Quote
We have to get back to basics as to what the Amiga actually was in the beginning.

A toy.  PCs just beeped and printed text.  The Amiga let you make your own graphics, music... and languages like AMOS let you write your own software.  It'd be nice if there were a great set of GFX and GUI libraries and a dumbed-down IDE so people could write their own Java software, and not have to learn the ills of pre-compiled stuff.  I seriously doubt there's a future in anything but interpreted languages.  I've felt that way ever since I got my first copy of AMOS.  An interpreted language with REAL programming structure would be nice.

Quote
Comparing Linux to AROS is like comparing Microsoft to AmigaOS: not realistic

Linux and AROS also have different goals.

Quote
Living in the past won't make Amigas great again. Something fresh, visionary and innovative is needed, and the need is to look to the future for answers, not the past.

PC's are thousands of times more powerful than they have ever been, and what's the pinicle of technology these days?  Reading webpages!  Text-based e-mail!  Watching tiny movies with crappy sound online!  Today was the future ten years ago.  I think I might puke.

People look towards the future too much, which is why they keep making the same damn mistakes so much.  Take a look at Linux and Windows... and FIX IT!

One things I've always wanted to do is turn on a computer at work and log into my home computer, complete with graphics.  Current solutions revolve around taking screenshots or using good old text terminals.  This is the 21st century, surly we can do better than that?!

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Power users care about speed, but not everyone else does if the speed of the processor is irrelevant to the thing they want to do.

Horray!  I don't care if my AmigaOne has an 800Mhz processor and the standard for the PC is a 3Ghz.  I *DO* care if the AmigaOne will cost twice as much as a PC with a 3Ghz processor.  Speed is irrelevent.  Value is.

Quote
You have missed my obvious point. WE DON'T NEED TO!!! We need to combine the various features into a single unit that are seamless in a way they aren't on PCs.

Where do you get the drivers?  Modern driver architecture rivals troublesome hardware design.

Quote
Note that, mainstream Linux/GNU/KDE/Grome distros(e.g. Red Hat 9, SUSE 9, Mandrake 9.1, Lindows 4.5 and ‘etc’) is pretty bloated.

Huge desktops will do that.  I hate Gnome and KDE.  They pile on the complexity without actually resolving the problem:  standardizing the interface and making the sytsem easier to navigate.  Who cares about gradient buttons and Konqueror when Windows gives you the Control Panel?

Quote
Another thing...a trashy web-box with a boingball on it is a TERRIBLE idea...we had those here already 5+ years ago, minus the logo, and they totally bombed.

You can't read Internet pages on a TV!  I don't know why people rave about set-top boxes when we already have desk-top boxes and lap-top boxes.

Make a laptop without a hard drive and battery backed-up RAM, and shrink it to the size of a novel.  That'd be cool.  :-)

Quote
We need a central server based machine where it can surf the internet, print and do work, be a gateway, file server, print server for the household.Many many people have more than one computer in the house nowdays.

Linux already makes an awesome server.  It's the client side that needs lots of attention.

Computers with quick startup and instant off, efficient, small, portable...  Leave AmigaServe to run on a Linux box, and make AmigaDE for clients with no bulky, unreliable, power-hungry, "drop it once and you're toast" hard drives.

Quote
Surround system: around $400 for a decent one
DVD about $150
Stereo $400
VCR $150
on top of that you have a PC
$900 is about the cheapest you get here and that has no graphics card worth speaking of so add $400 to that
Adds up to say a round figure of $2500.

DVDs, Stereos, and VCRs are purpose-built machines that do one thing well and consistently.  Of course they are cheaper.  A PC will always cost a lot because it has to do a little of everything.  A PDA typically costs $300 or more, and look how tiny it is and how little hardware is inside besides a CPU and a touchscreen.  They're designed to be flexible.

I can tell you this, I would never own a computer valued at $200.  If I want a cheap PC I'll buy a used one.  There's certainly LOTS of obsolete, used computers to choose from.  :-D
 

Offline bhoggett

Re: What will drive the New Amiga?
« Reply #67 on: March 23, 2004, 01:31:12 PM »
Quote
getting to more honourable pursuits... The exciting part of watching demos was seeing how cleverly the chips had been programmed and what impressive results were achieved.

Demo coders don't always make good programmers, or good program designers.  It's a long standing myth that a platform that attracts a lot of demo coders has therefore a great resource of serious programmers. This is certainly often not the case.
Quote
This brings me to another point about amiga that can draw us through to success - We have the opportunity to have a platform that can utilise the hardware on graphic and audio cards etc to much greater detail than PCs and Macs do...can't we?

How? What magic pixie dust is going to do that?

Graphics and audio hardware does what it is desinged to do. How well a system can use it depends on the quality of the drivers, and that in turn depends on proper support from the hardware manufacturer. Now, how will Amigas make better use of these cards than anyone else, when they can't even get the manufacturers to take any notice?

People don't hack hardware directly any more. It would be lunacy to even try.
Bill Hoggett
 

Offline ACE

Re: What will drive the New Amiga?
« Reply #68 on: March 23, 2004, 01:59:04 PM »
A Review So Far!

For those who are lost a quick, and not complete, review of what has been said so far.

The question seems to be can the Amiga survive in as just a niche product?  There has been discussion about where that niche might be

Most suggest a Set Top Box, stylish well costructed and small enough to be carted round to your friends for a quick plug into their TV.  It will also act as a 'Media Centre' allowing DVD,MP3,internet accesss,TV, etc. Essentially a media convergence box, with a solid S/W front end that loads fast and allows more access behind the GUI when wanted.

Others say this has been tried before, and TV resolutions are too low to even view a web page properly.  Hardware is only a secondary concern away why not spend more effort establishing some killer apps that will make more people want to use our O/S before/or instead of buying new Hardware.

Price (unfortunetaly) is the key to most purchasing decisions made by "Average Joe".  Unless enough geeks/fanatics/early-adopters can be found to buy and produce stuff for this new machine it will never reach mass-market appeal.  And entering into the mass-market is the only way I see of getting prices to a point our Joe will buy at.  Horrible circlar arguement...

Is there a way out?  Or should we all just jump over board now...
 

Offline ACE

Re: What will drive the New Amiga?
« Reply #69 on: March 23, 2004, 02:31:25 PM »
A review continued!

...not yet, there's more.

What's wrong with being a niche market (apart from it being fairly expensive), some say the glory days of old will never come back, and if we keep trying to reclaim those heights and keep comparing ourselves to Microsoft we will never get anywhere!  You have to start small and build up that user base again, get support behind you and money will follow.

The problem is that will the number of people who fondly remember Amigas still want to buy one be enough to keep the system moving till the "average Joe" consumer who (for the sake of arguement) has never heard of Amiga before will want to buy one.

Amiga users never where simply buying into hardware or software but the perfect synagy of both.  The great games would not be possible without the hardware, and in turn efficient software meant less powerfull CPUs can be used.  A third tier, the Amiga Community, grew up during the hard times of '95 onwards.  All three making the Amiga strong enough to last untill now (lets not give up before we see the fruits of these new projects)

The problem is the community has been fractured by bad PR, non-action and some might say action in completely the wrong direction.  AROS is the perfect example of a community trying it's best to keep Amiga alive, but it is small, and working towards something that others definately don't want, AO/S on x86!  (Reasons for and against talked about elsewhere. Manytimes!)

Now with MorphO/S on one side and AmigaO/S4 on the other the community has become even more split.  Getting the community spirt back is very important to keep Amiga alive.  A unified developers web site was suggested to keep the S/W side going all working together with elected team managers keeping individual projects on track. (Although IMHO the idea of Amiga credits might not work so well after burnt fingers with other pre-pay and membership schemes in the past.)  Still I think it's a good idea, and would offer my services in design and documentation, (programming not quite upto scratch, unless anyone wants some Fortran90 work doing!)

In conclusion I think there is still a chance for Amiga if the community can all work together.  The civil and detailled discussions here show it is possible.  Keep it up Amiga.org, our community needs us!
 

Offline KThunder

aros and linux
« Reply #70 on: March 23, 2004, 02:38:28 PM »
aros imho has the potential to be everything that linux is and more.

imagine something for a second: imaging aros is complete and released (it is slowly and surely getting there)

right off there are stong simularities to linux- 1. predominantly x86 but with other ports.
2. limeted hardware driverbase but with active hack support. this is actually something linux is helping with since many hardware developers have already reased info on their products.
3. significant amount of software that only has to be recompilled- linux with unix stuff, aros with amiga stuff. this could be just "basic" release stuff but quite a bit of amiga software is quite advanvced even today.

now look at how they are different:

1. aros will (eventually) be complete. i.e. os with gui and accesories. not just a kernal. most of the fragmentation that has occured in linux is because linux isn't an os. it isnt a complete computeing solution so to speak. aros will be.
2. linux had to fight its roots as a "geek" os or "hackers"os for a long long time it wasnt unit about '98 that it was considered a serious os at all. aros wont have to fight any of that but will have to overcome views mostly of amigans that it isnt complete or sereious.
3.linux was a groundbreaking os that had to go through a lot (of hacking) just to get drivers. aros wont have to go through all that. want to know how to write a driver for a nvidia nforce based card? nvidia has posted info. etcetera for numerous other cards etc.
4. linux is freaking big. froma vga based 386 with sound blaster and some weird network cart. to a top of the line athlon64 system there are drivers for everything. aros doesnt have to be anywhere near as extensive.

i have talked up aros for a long long time and it seems that hard core amigians seem to be the most against it. always talking about os4.0 and stuff. i for one have no faith whatsoever in the companies that have owned the amigaip. i have faith in us. we have kept amiga alive. we have made it better. we are providing its future.

               um... amen :-D
Oh yeah?!?
Well your stupid bit is set,
and its read only!
(my best geek putdown)
 

Offline stuart

Re: What will drive the New Amiga?
« Reply #71 on: March 23, 2004, 03:47:53 PM »
It seems the point is to get people to want one, I wanted those demos and games... I remember when some coders managed to get sprites in the border of a commodore64 screen. That was unheard of, but towards the end of the '64s reign there were coders out there that were clever enough to squeeze out some amazing capabilites from their chosen hardware like extra colours, hi-res with no border and border sprites. Many of those coders moved to Amiga (I'm no historian, I just assume that many people took the path from C64 to Amiga - others didn't) and produced some outstanding audio visual effects on those machines as well. (Most demos I ran crashed my machine because it didn't have the same memory config, or chipset or other setting just right - so why does it matter if that happens now) but the ones that did were amazing. My point is we have that ingenious spirit as part of Amiga legacy. :pint:

@bhogget - you might be right - I'm talking about pixie dust, but to start with, for one small aspect of this discussion - if driver coders can produce software that really pushes the hardware to it's limits, ie get them to run faster, or a few more colours, or more polygons per second, or an extra voice because they really liked and studied the hardware and were encouraged to out-do their coleagues and gained status for their work, then there's the amiga advantage right there.
You ask how to get chip makers to notice...How is up to Amiga the company (or KCOW or whoever it is these days) to gain support, but even lunatic :insane: individuals who might go and ask a company for datasheets of their chips so they can learn to program them themselves can do that if they want to ...blah blah blah...
 

Offline BigBenAussie

Re: What will drive the New Amiga?
« Reply #72 on: March 23, 2004, 07:34:53 PM »
I think the days of hitting the hardware are over for all but consoles. As soon as you have to deal with graphic cards and sound cards you can't do it any more because of the diversity. The Amiga won't have the common hardware that its always had. Bearing in mind the time for the Amiga chipsets to be advanced this can only be a good thing. We can take the best things from the PC world and leave the rest behind. The Demo coders wont have as much to play with, and one might argue that it lowers the fresh-hold for new demo coders.

Back on topic.

I can't understand all the nay-sayers. At this point any direction is better than none!!! Ainc had no direction and everything has stagnated as a result. You're all scared and traumatised, but you have to realise there is so much opportunity right now. We'll probably get one crack at this and the follow on effects will be felt by all. We have one chance to make an impact, and a new motherboard alone is not going to do it. We need to bring Amiga to the masses somehow, even if it is as a dumbed down machine. At the very least an Amiga needs a consumer presence, more so than merely a motherboard that only caters to currently small usergroup. The market from the existing userbase is just too small and none of the companies in control of Amiga's future would be in it, if they thought they were just gonna sell a few motherboards and OSs. The Amiga must be reborn. Even moderate success would be better than nothing.

Let me give you another example as to how an Amiga could be marketed. I would get my parents an Amiga multimedia convergence box tomorrow if it was easy to use. Computers scare them. They can't even write me an e-mail. Imagine pressing an e-mail button on your keyboard remote and being able to write an e-mail immediately on your TV. Practically everyone can turn on a TV. Yeah, there are keyboard shortcuts on PCs but you're missing the point. PCs scare people and are not cool(except for geeks).

MS is dead against putting Windows on XBox because of the backlash they'd get. Sony will steer away from letting their machine be a computer, as that's too geeky. They might do a little multimedia and CD burning though, but in their competition with MS for the niche games market they'll always be looking at the lower end. The Amiga can fit above these and below a PC. The Amiga should be a mixture of the best aspects of both the PC platform and the consoles. That's what I felt it was originally, and that regard an Amiga would be heading back towards its roots and its core competency.
 

Offline DFergATL

Re: aros and linux
« Reply #73 on: March 23, 2004, 08:00:45 PM »
Quote
i have talked up aros for a long long time and it seems that hard core amigians seem to be the most against it. always talking about os4.0 and stuff. i for one have no faith whatsoever in the companies that have owned the amigaip. i have faith in us. we have kept amiga alive. we have made it better. we are providing its future.


I agree.  Now for my own little addtion to this whole mess.  I have not owned an Amiga for at least 15 years.  But I have fond memories of how much fun it was to use, responsive, easy, fast.  I went with a commercial alt. OS, it was BeOS.  I loved it, felt like my old Miggy and was fun.  Then I was dumped on as a user.  Poof, gone!  No support, no updates, nada.  When they went down they did nothing for the community they had, they just abandoned us.  After that I have no intention of trusting a large or small coperation selling an alt OS.  When that alt OS runs on dedicated hardware that is WAY too expensive for what it is, you can coun't me way, way out.  This does not mean that I am against OS4, but it is going to take me some time before I would even consider buying it.  AROS on the otherhand can take up a position between, people curious about Amiga type OS and people ready to put up the money.  I don't think that AROS will ever be completly up to date with OS 4 or beyond but can be a great stepping stone.  Unless I am mistaken Aros tries to maitain compatability between MorphOS and AROS.  If this is true than it is not too far fetched to think that if enough users are around for AROS that some of those software packages being devloped for MorphOS could be eaisly ported to AROS.  It will be very, very hard for Amiga or Morph to get users to buy the hardware just to try the OS.  Now if people can try a "work alike" but it doesn't have all the "bells and wistles" then it isn't as big of a step for people to make to get the "full" experence.  This is just my 2 cents.  Go AROS, because without I will not sink my money into either of the others.  I dont' understand the community in general being anti AROS, (that might be a bit harsh of a word) and it isn't going anywhere, ever, can't be sold.
Sir, I believe that we have a problem with your brain being missing.  -Firefly-
 

Offline BigBenAussie

Re: aros and linux
« Reply #74 on: March 23, 2004, 10:49:36 PM »
The other thing to mention is that building such a set top box, succeed or fail, is not a bad step for the Amiga community as we simply will have a different footprint for our favourite hardware. Its all good. Not even all the current Amiga community cares to upgrade to the fastest or most versatile thing available. An entry level set top box harms no-one and may just get some newbies back on board.

There is no reason why we can't take more than one tack in reinvigorating the Amiga platform.

I wanted to comment on the PSX2 Linux upgrade. I considered purchasing it, because I thought it would be cool to play around with programming on it. Although realistically speaking you can do that on any platform. It made me think back to the excitement I used to have in my early attempts at programming and how easy it used to be. Although I was programming well before this, I did like the concept of the c64 Epyx programming toolkit? Apart from limiting you to 16k, you couda written c64 Winter Games with it.

The thing that I would like for the Amiga platform is something like AMOS, or a games/graphics toolkit that is easy to use and understand so that hobbiests regardless of their level of competency can have a go at programming. Admittedly, it is a throwback to the microcomputer era but if you listen to a lot of the posts on the newsgroups you find that hobbiests are clamouring to help build the platform but lack the necessary skills to immediately program something. A dumbed down basic like programming platform that can manipulate 3d objects and landscapes to create a game would be magnificent. If it allows the creation of apps all the better. We have the opportunity to create a standard mechanism for issue on all Amigas like the basic that once came on all computers. Except this would be a super basic, maybe even compiled.

As for AROS, its a pity you can't use the Amiga name to slap on a box with x86 hardware. Hmmm. Unless Gary lets you. Then this would take away our reliance on more expensive PPC hardware and we could then be competitive with PCs as a platform. I know, it sounds schizo. I'm just brainstorming guys!!! :-). Hmmm the more I think about it, the hardware is keeping us back really, but without hardware we can't be taken seriously as a platform. We can't do it on software alone because linux eats us alive as a viable alternative platform for PCs. I think Amiga went PPC because everyone was too snobby to go the x86 route which woulda made more economic sense but woulda led to an outcry from the community. We have to live with the choices I guess and make it work.