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Offline Cyberus

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Re: behaviour (bad)
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2003, 03:23:17 PM »
Careful Jax - generalising (or is it generalizing ;-))

I used to live with an American, and I'm sure she said 'different from' and 'different to'...
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Offline JaXanim

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Re: behaviour (bad)
« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2003, 03:30:24 PM »
@Cyberus

'different from'....'similar to'

'different to'  .... QED!

JaX
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Offline mikeymike

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Re: behaviour (bad)
« Reply #31 on: November 07, 2003, 03:44:30 PM »
Quote
My point is that this all comes down to communication, and someone said it already... The point is to be understood.

To a certain extent I disagree, but here's an example of how I disagree.

Someone makes a remark intended to be funny over a text-based medium.  If they misspell something, most of the humour is lost in it, because people need to first think about what they meant to say, then add it all up together in their brain, and then "oh".  Not funny.

Misppelling leads to an impression of lack of education, or someone being thick (because, much of the time it is!  think about the most brainless/immature arguments you've heard, one of the factors you remember is very likely to be poor spelling, and/or use of caps/swearwords etc).  Their argument, even if it is an extremely well-communicated (otherwise) argument, and a good/valid one, is likely to be treated differently, because over the Internet there is little to go on to gauge the person's intellect.  That can lead to the response being worded differently, possibly condescending, etc.

And if you say "well, it shouldn't lead to that, that's the other person's fault", it's the original poster's fault in the first place for not bothering to spell correctly.  We're talking most people here, not people who have real difficulties such as genuine dyslexia.

I think I can get the spelling and grammar correctly, but what I used to do is use a word processor to just check a single word quickly, start it up, type word in, hit spell check.  Recently I bought a piece of dictionary software to help me more.  Spelling, grammar and punctuation makes a huge difference in an educated/technical discussion.
 

Offline SpeelgoedmannetjeTopic starter

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Re: behaviour (bad)
« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2003, 03:46:27 PM »
Quote

MarkTime wrote:
Oh good, a language thread...

these kinds of threads are fairly frequent, and I understand that they become tiresome, however, I like them.  I've always been a fan of language.

Language is an artform, even in countries where there are official standards, languages that are in active use evolve, and the bigger thing, is the meaning of a phrase, is more in the head of the listener, than the person speaking....

Anyway, MarkTime says 'forum' is correct.  It's the word most understood, and if your goal is to be understood, use that word.

Beyond using words people have half of chance of understanding, you also have to carefully pick your point.  

And finally, look a bird.

Sorry, that was all for me. :-)


My thread was not to intend to bad language u
And the canary said: \'chirp\'
 

Offline SpeelgoedmannetjeTopic starter

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Re: behaviour (bad)
« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2003, 03:50:55 PM »
I mean, my thread was not about bad language, it was about occasionaly bad behaviour on this forum, insulting each other or things like that.
And the canary said: \'chirp\'
 

Offline Cyberus

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Re: behaviour (bad)
« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2003, 04:32:58 PM »
@ Jax

Michael Swan - Practical English Usage,2nd Ed, Oxford
p150

Quote

158 different

   1  Modifiers
   
   2  Prepositions

       From is generally used after different; many          
       British people also use to. In American English,  
       than is common.
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Offline stuart

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Re: behaviour (bad)
« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2003, 04:41:24 PM »
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MikeyMike wrote: Misppelling leads to an impression of lack of education,
 :lol:

I agree with what you say about impressions mikeymike, but only to a certain extent, when typing something into a forum, I write without too much regard to spelling and grammar except where my point needs to be carefully expressed because I don't want to be missunderstood.

People will take what they want from what they read, when it comes to this kind of net forum, the more effort you put into making yourself clear (by using correct spelling and grammar - from you're local dictionaries and customary rules) the easier they CAN understand what you are saying, but communication is ALWAYS ( I cannot think of an example when it's not) a two way street, it takes one person to express and another to understand, then communication was successful.

Quote
mikeymike wrote: I think I can get the spelling and grammar correctly,
one of my points is; "what is correct?" British english has it's methods and a style of it's own, so does American and so does Australian etc etc etc, so who say's what's right? the person writing the words makes that descision, if it's sloppy, then that's just what it is, again, the person who is reading it will decide how they react to that sloppiness...or humor, or whatever...

The point of all communication is to understand each other, it exists in between all of us.  :nervous:  :crazy:  :-D
 

Offline vortexau

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Re: behaviour (bad)
« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2003, 04:48:17 PM »


"Set a spell!  Take yer shoes off.  Y'all come back, y'hear?"

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An enduring image in The Beverly Hillbillies was their time-honored vehicle -- a 1922 or '23 flatbed truck.  That opening vignette showed them arriving in Southern California: "they loaded up the truck and moved to Beverly;  Hills, that is."  The Clampetts continued to drive it around town, this unapologetic symbol of their strong-willed independence and immunity to social pressures or the scorn of snobbish neighbors.

The truck?  it's an Oldsmobile.

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Offline stuart

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Re: behaviour (bad)
« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2003, 04:48:55 PM »
Quote

Speelgoedmannetje wrote:
I mean, my thread was not about bad language, it was about occasionaly bad behaviour on this forum, insulting each other or things like that.


I have noticed some bad behaviour here sometimes too, occasional 'my country is better than your country kind of stuff, but it's a great forum, I read it a lot but don't post too often, on the whole though, it's pretty civilised compared some other forums I have read!  :shocked:
 

Offline Martyn

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Re: behaviour (bad)
« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2003, 04:53:04 PM »
There was a series on ITV in the UK and few months ago called 'The Adventure of English' that was about this very subject.  I found it really facinating viewing.

The amount of words in modern english that have been taken from other langauges in quite staggering.

It has benefit's and drawbacks, the most obvious is how we use the same letters and letter groupings for many different pronounciations.  This is because they originated from other languages and the spelling and pronounciation have remained.

The advantage though (tho? thow?), is that english has a huge vocabulary (as Cyberus stated earlier), that doesn't just present itself with many synonyms for one word - but each of these word has a slightly different meaning.  It makes English a very descriptive language.

I love this subject, if anyone else is interested have a look here for some really good examples.

Or do a google for 'english' and 'etymology'.

Martyn.

ps Anyone notice the new english verb i used at the end of the post? :-)
If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot.
Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water my friend. -- Bruce Lee
 

Offline mikeymike

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Re: behaviour (bad)
« Reply #39 on: November 07, 2003, 04:55:42 PM »
Quote
I agree with what you say about impressions mikeymike, but only to a certain extent, when typing something into a forum, I write without too much regard to spelling and grammar except where my point needs to be carefully expressed because I don't want to be missunderstood.

I just find it easier to apply a reasonably high level of concentration most of the time, then when it really matters, pay even more attention to it.
Quote
one of my points is; "what is correct?" British english has it's methods and a style of it's own, so does American and so does Australian etc etc etc, so who say's what's right? the person writing the words makes that descision, if it's sloppy, then that's just what it is, again, the person who is reading it will decide how they react to that sloppiness...or humor, or whatever...

Americanisms annoy me, I'll admit that outright.  By "Americanisms" I mean words that have been turned into American spelling for no apparent reason than to flip the bird at the British.  Otherwise, I think that if you're British, you should use British English, and if you're American, American English.  I don't let my annoyance for Americanisms lead me to the point of correcting Americans on the use of American English :-)
Quote
The point of all communication is to understand each other, it exists in between all of us.

I think that is a very complex and subtle subject, as I think most people who are experienced in communicating with people they don't know over the Internet will agree.

- edit - my wording can be poor sometimes, just look at that last sentence :-) -
 

Offline SpeelgoedmannetjeTopic starter

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Re: behaviour (bad)
« Reply #40 on: November 07, 2003, 05:00:43 PM »
@stuart
It is indeed not that much, but sometimes there are  nasty stings wich make me uneasy. I do mind if people say their country is better then the rest or that country stinks. I think/hope they are making fun out of that.
But it's the accusing,
I hope people will reconsider before they accuse each other for this or that.

but anyway, cheers matey!
And the canary said: \'chirp\'
 

Offline Kees

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Re: behaviour (bad)
« Reply #41 on: November 07, 2003, 05:03:06 PM »
@Speelgoedmannetje

Can i say 'Groningen RULES !!' and 'Er gaat niets boven Groningen !!' ?   :-)  :-)  :-)
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Offline SpeelgoedmannetjeTopic starter

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Re: behaviour (bad)
« Reply #42 on: November 07, 2003, 05:09:56 PM »
Quote


Americanisms annoy me, I'll admit that outright.  By "Americanisms" I mean words that have been turned into American spelling for no apparent reason than to flip the bird at the British.  Otherwise, I think that if you're British, you should use British English, and if you're American, American English.  I don't let my annoyance for Americanisms lead me to the point of correcting Americans on the use of American English :-)


Annoying is bad, and mainly bad for yourself. So don't bother and respect the Americans and their language.
They are a sovereign country with their own language that happens to be similar to native English.
When an Irishman or Scot speaks everyone think its all too authentic but it is the same case as the American's
And the canary said: \'chirp\'
 

Offline mikeymike

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Re: behaviour (bad)
« Reply #43 on: November 07, 2003, 05:14:57 PM »
Quote
Annoying is bad, and mainly bad for yourself. So don't bother and respect the Americans and their language.

If I didn't respect that choice, I would be openly correcting people on American English use in forums :-)

 - edit - having said that, the quirks of the English language as to, for example, when 'ize' instead of 'ise' should be used, it's very weird, and differs between dictionaries.  Typically American English uses 'ize', and British 'ise', but it swaps around seemingly at random.  I've never worked out a solid rule of thumb of knowing which to use.

- edit 2 - the only time I've ever corrected spelling/punctuation/grammar on amiga.org is in this thread, IIRC (and pretty sure).

Quote
When an Irishman or Scot speaks everyone think its all too authentic but it is the same case as the American's

I'm not sure what you mean.  You're saying that some people think that Irish/Scottish people "put on" their quirks to the language for the sake of it?
 

Offline SpeelgoedmannetjeTopic starter

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Re: behaviour (bad)
« Reply #44 from previous page: November 07, 2003, 05:19:19 PM »
"Er gaat niets boven Groningen!" translated: "there is nothing that goes above/beats Groningen"

The romans (Was it Tacitus?) really described it as the end of the world, because when they were there, it was misty, and the sea had the same color as the sky.
But indeed, Groningen is a real fine place to live, much things to do in the city, pubs that are 24 hours a day open (well, the wrong ones) and things like that.
And the canary said: \'chirp\'