PearPC

[DFergATL]

Saw this on an other message borad.  Looks cool, not very fast though.  It looks like someone might have gotten MorphOS to at least try to load on it, not sure how successful they were. http://nogfx.free.fr/peg.jpg  I am sure someone will get Amgia OS 4.0 to boot on it eventually.  Anyway I thought it was interesting and I also thought others might find it interesting.

[macto]

Which brings up another question: has anybody tried PPC OSes other than Linux and Mac OS on Mac-on-Linux?

[Matt_H]

I think this is terrible news for the Amiga community. The Amiga community is so small that the AmigaOne and Pegasos need every sale they can get; every sale matters. By eliminating the need for such hardware to run AmigaOS or MorphOS, it simply opens up the market to piracy from outside the community - hardware sales decrease, driving up prices, and CD images of OS4 and MorphOS find their way to P2P clients.

Soon enough, there could be people looking for AmIGa ROmZ - not a good thing.

[Etho]

I tried installing Mac OS X 10.2 directly. It booted from the .iso image and initializes the PCI and USB devices, then autodiskmounts and fails with error "Failure: DiskArbStart() -> 1102" (Anyone know what that means?

It looked promising at first, still give it time!

[macto]

Well, I was under the impression that AmigaOS needed some sort of activation key which was stored in the AmigaOne ROM.  Either way, PearPC isn't going to entice people to use AmigaOS or MorphOS on a Wintel box.  At present, the performance on a high end Wintel would be comparable to a 60 MHz 601 (or a PowerMac 6100) -- according to the to the PearPC website.  The only real threat would be from something like Mac-on-Linux, which would only run on a PowerPC anyhow.

So ask yourself two questions on the piracy front: is piracy of legacy Amiga ROMs and OSes a problem?  I would venture that the answer is no, and I say that for a couple of reasons: there is a vocal oppositions against piracy in the Amiga community.  This is unlike other platforms which are comparably obsolete where people say piracy is bad, wink, wink.  It is also unlike slightly more obsolete platforms where piracy is the norm.  You also have a vendor who was good enough, or desparate enough, to license their ROMs and OSes for use in emulation.  Would something like PearPC or MOL change this.  It certainly wouldn't change the former, and selling their OS independent of hardware would be a continuation of the latter.

Would emulation or virtual machines be a burdern to the vendors or AmigaOS or MorphOS?  Any answer to that question would be pure spectulation, but my speculative answer would be yes.  My reasoning is simple: the people who are genuinely interested in using these operating systems are probably willing to pay the price for the hardware, and there are margins to be made off of hardware.

Would you loose potential, genuinely interested users?  Sure you would!  I'll use myself as an example: I'm tired of the status quo in operating systems.  They are slow and bloated, which doesn't fit my philosophy.  Would I be willing to dump serious money into an alternative?  I already do (I already run Apple hardware).  Am I willing to do so sight unseen?  Absolutely not.  It looks like an AmigaOne G4 would cost over $1000 Canadian.  If I don't like the OS, I would loose a considerable amount of money.  On the other hand, if it was a $200 OS I would be much more likely to buy it sight unseen.  I am desparate for something better than what I have after all.  Once I know that I like it, and am confident that I'll use it for a couple of years, maybe then I'll buy the hardware.  (Which I would consider to be a step backwards in portability and power consumption in the first place.)  Of course, a few odd ball users such as myself may not make the OS only route a smart option.  (I don't even believe that it would be a smart route for Apple.)

[DFergATL]

About the only real thing I like about it is that it might be possiable to, at some point, try Amgia OS 4.0 or MorphOS without having to buy the hardware.  That is if one could buy just the OS.  I am interested in OS 4.0 but I am not willing to spend upwards of $1000 dollars on the hardware necessary to put a system together, motherboard, processor, memory, graphics card, case, power supply.  That is an expensive risk for me.  I can't just toss that type of money around.  That is why I don't have an A1.  Now if I could give the OS a "test run" even if it is slow.  I could see if I liked it, if it would do the things I need etc.  If it does then you bet I would spend the money to be able to run on native software.  One thing they could do about illeagle copies is to require a dongle if the OS is not booted on "native" hardware.  But that would be up to them.  We all know that if it can be done someone will get OS 4.0 to work in emulation at sometime.  If for no other reason than to say that it can be done.  It doesn't have to be a real "Bad" thing for Amiga.  Like I said it would be a lot eaiser to buy just the OS and give it a trial, even if the emulation was slow.  Then decide if I want to buy the hardware.  But, I would only do this if the OS was avaliable to buy, I would not "download" it.  As it is I don't think I will ever get an other Amiga.  I have heard that the price will never come down and might even go up.  Over $700 for a motherbord running a G3, no memory, no graphics, no sound, no case, no powersupply.  I understand that PPC has many, many advantages but it is also very, very expensive.  Who would wan't to buy an G3 Amiga for alomst as much money then it would cost them to get an Apple?  Who are they kidding??  

[Matt_H]

The dongle code present in the AmigaOne isn't infallible (nothing is). It's only a matter of time before someone cracks it, whether the intentions be "good" (OS4/MOS on Peg/A1) or malicious (d00d! l33t h4x0r g33k5).

From what I understand, OS4 won't be available in a standalone package (Cyberstorm and Blizzard PPC versions excepted), only through the purchase of an AmigaOne. It can't be good if that version leaks out onto the internet.

How many "test drivers" does it take before we have a piracy problem on our hands? And while there might be a small boost in sales for the Cyberstorm/Blizzard version, net Peg/A1 hardware sales will suffer: x86 chips are getting faster and faster, and this emulation will get faster as development continues. Therefore, this emulator could eventually become a hardware replacement solution in software. We're really in for it then.

I'd prefer it if work on getting MOS/OS4 booting under emulation was halted until the market "recovers," but if KMOS/Hyperion/Genesi were to work with the developers of this emulator to create a low-price MOS/OS4 "demo" for x86 machines, that would be kinda cool.

The Amiga market is too small to be taking chances with.

[macto]

Matt: I'm sorry to be blunt about this, but the Amiga is not going to recover.  There will be no recovery because very few people know that alternatives to those Intel driven beige boxes exist.  A few people have heard about Apple and Linux, but they don't know what they are or how to obtain them.  If Amiga has any brand recognition, it is historic.  Very few people know that there is an update OS on the other side of the event horizion.  Very few people know about the AmigaOS alikes, like AROS or MorphOS.  (Are there others which I should be aware of?)

Of course that doesn't mean that the Amiga is dead.  If people are willing to pay enough for it, it can hang on as some sort of fringe system.  That bit about paying enough for it is why I think selling the OS separate of the hardware is suicidal.  It would mean one less revenue source.  It also means that piracy is very unlikey.  Consider the sheer numbers of people who pirate Solaris, IRIX, AIX, and such.

The OS wars ended a long time ago.  Microsoft won, and everyone else lost.  No one is going to recover because there is too much money invested in Microsoft software (and Intel hardware).  The only way that is going to change is when a new technology replaces the PC.

[Hammer]

@macto

Note that Sun offers free Solaris X86 download for personal use (grass roots initiative). Sun’s model is to sell Sun related services which is based around its desktop ecosystem.

[SidMan]

Macto,

I don't think "the OS wars ended a long time ago", in my opinion they are still going on.

Microsoft are definitely in the best position with their OS running on over 90% of PC's around the world, but they haven't won by a long shot. Their recent advertising campaign against Linux is proof of the pudding that they are still fighting the battle. The fact that Linux now has major computer shows aimed at business computing, and that companies such as IBM, Novell, Red Hat, HP and Sun (amongst others) are all developing for the platform suggests otherwise. The UK government is doing research into the Open Source OS (and Open Source in general) and is implementing the Sun Java Desktop into certain government sectors. China is also looking for alternative OS's to run on their PC's as their economy grows. I'm sure there are many more examples of the switch from Windows.

The fact that too much money is invested into Microsoft's OS and software *is* proving to be a problem. It's not the be-all and end-all solution to OS dominance as you suggest. Companies always want to cut costs and with upgrade and security patches costing business's money it's no wonder they're looking into alternatives.

The point I'm trying to make is that it's not all over. What lies in store for the Amiga and alternative OS's I cannot predict, but if just one person can think differently and smartly, then there's always a chance. I mean look where Linux is today....

[cecilia]

The OS wars ended a long time ago. Microsoft won, and everyone else lost. No one is going to recover because there is too much money invested in Microsoft software (and Intel hardware). The only way that is going to change is when a new technology replaces the PC.

the fat lady has not sung!
way too many people (and companies) are moving over to linux. windows is something people put up with until they realize there are other things out there.

[macto]

Please don't construe my words as support for Microsoft.  I don't like them.  I even refuse to use their products at home, where I make the decisions, and try to avoid it outside of the home, where the decisions of others are thrust upon me.  That said, I am a bit of a pessimist as far as the future of the industry is concerned.  I have long since realised that the only way I'm going to survive in the computer world is to be an island upon himself.  Fortunately, there are a few other islands out there to chat with. :-D

As for the impending threat of Linux, Microsoft is doing their best to head it off.  They will probably have much success.  The basic problem is recovering your data once it has been locked up by a particular vendor.  It turns out to be very costly, and the industry doesn't go through that type of shift very often.  None of this means that Linux can be destroyed.  Seeming as the system is out there with the source code, it will continue to adapt to new technologies for decades to come.  That is the heritage of Unix, which has survived and evolved for some 35 years now.  But survival is different from capturing a healthy chunk of the market.

But the question we should be asking ourselves is will the Amiga, or an Amiga clone survive?  Unix systems are nice, but I'm rather distressed that the only major surviving operating systems are based on some version of Unix.  Ignoring Windows, of course.  Who really cares about Windows.  ;-)

[Matt_H]

@ macto

I don't expect the Amiga to "recover" to its former position, but I'd hate to see the best chance the Amiga has had in a decade go up in smoke due to piracy.

[Lo]

I'm sorry to be blunt about this, but the Amiga is not going to recover

Of course that doesn't mean that the Amiga is dead

 Uh, OK  :hat:

[macto]

If it isn't dead and isn't recovering, it just means that it is very ill.  Or perphaps the illness analogy is a bad one.  I'm simply saying that things aren't going to get much better.