FPGA Amiga

[psxphill]

You were first one explaining me if Vampire is underpowered in todays terms as if I (or most of us) would not know that.

You said it wasn't under powered.

For demo coders Vampire is not interesting because they want to use a underpowered defined hardware base to create something that makes people wonder how they did it.

Which is it?

IMO they would avoid it because it's too expensive and a bit like joining a cult.

[OlafS3]

You said it wasn't under powered.



Which is it?

IMO they would avoid it because it's too expensive and a bit like joining a cult.

Where did I write that? If you read carefully what I write and not interpret something in it, I have never written anywhere that Vampire can be compared to up-to-date standard hardware.

Demo coders code for plain A500 or A1200, not for expanded big boxes or new highend 68k hardware. It would be not fun to them

[Kremlar]

IMO they would avoid it because it's too expensive and a bit like joining a cult.

When has ANYTHING Amiga NOT been like joining a cult???  Lol :roflmao:

[kolla]

When has ANYTHING Amiga NOT been like joining a cult???  Lol :roflmao:

I suggest you join the cult, and see it from the inside for a while.

[Chucky]

You said it wasn't under powered.



Which is it?

IMO they would avoid it because it's too expensive and a bit like joining a cult.

Vampire too expensive.  still they code for the 060..?

no.  they avoid the vampire as there is no reason whatsoever to support it from a demosceners point of view.

new stuff. why? then they can just go to shadertoy and do something there.
no, they want to show off what they can do with the Amiga.  you know.  AGA, 060. (50MHz usual goal aswell)

not even RTG..   higher bandwidth etc to chipmem.  well back in the 90s it would be loved. but now it is just the old boundarys that counts and must be kept.

[Faerytale]

Vampire too expensive.  still they code for the 060..?

no.  they avoid the vampire as there is no reason whatsoever to support it from a demosceners point of view.

new stuff. why? then they can just go to shadertoy and do something there.
no, they want to show off what they can do with the Amiga.  you know.  AGA, 060. (50MHz usual goal aswell)

not even RTG..   higher bandwidth etc to chipmem.  well back in the 90s it would be loved. but now it is just the old boundarys that counts and must be kept.

Demosceners was the future, now they are the cryin past! If they dont want to move along its up to them.

repetitive forum parrots are getting annoying!

[grond]

new stuff. why? then they can just go to shadertoy and do something there.

Yes, for them it would be like training for a 500 metre run: it's no olympic discpline, so why bother?

[giZmo350]

repetitive forum parrots are getting annoying!

Like a broken record! But hey, I have nothing against new tech trends so I encoded my broken record into a machine-readable format and stream it on my Facebook page and YouTube channel for the entire world to enjoy non-stop! :laugh1:

[kolla]

Demo coding is a sport, they stick with the rules and regulations of their game.

But at least they are productive. What productivity is there for Apollo Core? Where are the AMMX optimised datatypes etc? Where are the debugging tools that have been worked on (for how long now)? What "developer-centric features" will be slapped on? The team is just a handful (if even that) of people, why is that? Shouldn't the existing developers flock around the Apollo Core to support it? Why aren't they?

[OlafS3]

Demo coding is a sport, they stick with the rules and regulations of their game.

But at least they are productive. What productivity is there for Apollo Core? Where are the AMMX optimised datatypes etc? Where are the debugging tools that have been worked on (for how long now)? What "developer-centric features" will be slapped on? The team is just a handful (if even that) of people, why is that? Shouldn't the existing developers flock around the Apollo Core to support it? Why aren't they?

Where are the existing 68k amiga developer hiding up to now? Behind which rock? They are no longer existing, simple as that. They are in retirement age, some are even already dead, they have moved on and develop f.e. mobile games today. They are no longer interested in doing 68k development, simple as that

[Chucky]

exactly!  there is more or less only the democoders left doing programming on the amiga. (and C64)  with a FEW exceptions.

so why even bother using valuiable LE space with stuff never getting used.   so you can have a salepoint?

and deocoders move to newer?  well. they moved to the PC.  those left want to do as a sport nice stuff wit the rules that exists. simple. as there is a sport in doing that.

so remove those rules.  why even bother about 080 etc when you can go to a fast GPU instead doing shader%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!.


repetive. maybe.  but it seems that people magically thinks putting in new stuff will be cool when it is never used.  just pointelss waste of hours doing it.

[OlafS3]

exactly!  there is more or less only the democoders left doing programming on the amiga. (and C64)  with a FEW exceptions.

so why even bother using valuiable LE space with stuff never getting used.   so you can have a salepoint?

and deocoders move to newer?  well. they moved to the PC.  those left want to do as a sport nice stuff wit the rules that exists. simple. as there is a sport in doing that.

so remove those rules.  why even bother about 080 etc when you can go to a fast GPU instead doing shader%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!.


repetive. maybe.  but it seems that people magically thinks putting in new stuff will be cool when it is never used.  just pointelss waste of hours doing it.

we had this already... demo coders (if doing amiga programming at all) want a fixed target and make people wonder what they can do with such a limited hardware. Having a power 68k amiga with constantly changing hardware makes no sense and no fun to them. Then they could also use a modern PC with modern graphic cards. In old days some demo coders started to develop games but at that time there were a much bigger amiga scene so I do not think that this would happen today. I do not think that new features automatically mean new users or developers but at least it makes something interesting. So there is at least a hope that some developers and users even without prior amiga history might join. But that is just hope, I do not know it.

[Chucky]

then why even bother to join when you have so few debuggingtools.
People programming on modern platforms today are used to very good debuggingtools, so go to vampire and du stuff is go back in time very much.  so it is not that interesting for them.

Havingh that said: new stuff like AMMX will just be many hours of time for nothing  using valueable LE space that could be used for other things insttead (like fpu or MMU maybe?)

and.  well "Demosceners was the future, now they are the cryin past! If they dont want to move along its up to them."  ANYONE except me finding that PRETTY ironic. when it comes to using an Amiga?

[OlafS3]

then why even bother to join when you have so few debuggingtools.
People programming on modern platforms today are used to very good debuggingtools, so go to vampire and du stuff is go back in time very much.  so it is not that interesting for them.

Havingh that said: new stuff like AMMX will just be many hours of time for nothing  using valueable LE space that could be used for other things insttead (like fpu or MMU maybe?)

and.  well "Demosceners was the future, now they are the cryin past! If they dont want to move along its up to them."  ANYONE except me finding that PRETTY ironic. when it comes to using an Amiga?

As I understand it AMMX not needed much space but offered some benefit in the view of the people behind the project and propably also was some fun to them to integrate. You as a demo coder might like that or not but the project was not designed for demo coders but for average users. Demo coders would never use it as their main platform, I do not understand why you repeat it all the time. I do not know if and how successful Vampire might become, we will see. I have not lost money because it exists and you propably not too and all the pissed off demo coders not either. For programmers in real world the user base is much more important than anything else. As long people use APIs and libraries you can develop on any platform if you want to support Vampire, only if you directly bang the hardware the tools you mentioned become relevant. You want to program a game? The others who asked wanted to write something? If yes how I already wrote they should go in IRC and talk to Gunnar and the others. If not nothing changes and the team does everything in order they have planned.

[grond]

so why even bother using valuiable LE space with stuff never getting used.

Because Gunnar likes doing it. This is a pasttime. If it weren't fun, it wouldn't happen.

[Chucky]

yeah I know that we will never use it as a main platofrm.  maybe 2-3 test-things.

BUT! who WILL use AMMX if noone actuallty does software USING it?

and later with the AGA thing.  WHO will use the new stuff introduced?   it is not like there is any API using it anyway.   so it feels like doing stuff just to be able to say "HEY WE GOT COOL STUFF"  but..  noone can/will use it.  instead of implementing the stuff we had. FIRST  and then put in the new stuff?  it is so strange and SAD!  as we do NEED a new good FPGA replacement for our beloved machines.. it is getting harder for me to get hold of 060 cpus etc. so this would be needed.

sadly the wrong path.  well luckly there are other FPGA solutions.

Talk to gunnar etc. well  I haven't done it.  as I feel that there is absolutley not idea of doing that, being reading how he answers others with suggestions. he answers them as trump on a day in a bad mood.

Sad.  as the hardware is awesome.