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Offline trekiejTopic starter

FPGA Amiga
« on: December 30, 2017, 03:09:54 AM »
Hello and I wish all a happy new year.
I wanted to know, how many FPGA Amigas are there in existence?
Amiga 2000 Forever :)
Welcome to the Planar System.
 

Offline khayoz

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Re: FPGA Amiga
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2017, 03:57:03 AM »
Quote from: trekiej;834494
Hello and I wish all a happy new year.
I wanted to know, how many FPGA Amigas are there in existence?

Minimig
MIST
FPGA Arcade
Vampire 4

And probably some more that I forgot or in development (NatAmi?).
« Last Edit: December 30, 2017, 03:59:20 AM by khayoz »
 

Offline SamuraiCrow

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FPGA Amiga
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2017, 07:10:49 AM »
Quote from: khayoz;834495
Minimig
MIST
FPGA Arcade
Vampire 4

And probably some more that I forgot or in development (NatAmi?).


NatAmi was a precursor to the Vampire series.
 

Offline kamelito

Re: FPGA Amiga
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2017, 10:06:20 AM »
There is also the Chameleon64
 

Offline khayoz

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Re: FPGA Amiga
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2017, 11:19:27 AM »
Quote from: SamuraiCrow;834500
NatAmi was a precursor to the Vampire series.

Who are we to say that Thomas Hirsch isn't still developing his dreamclone?
« Last Edit: December 30, 2017, 11:23:19 AM by khayoz »
 

Offline AJCopland

Re: FPGA Amiga
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2017, 12:12:51 PM »
Be Positive towards the Amiga community!
 

Offline IanP

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Re: FPGA Amiga
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2017, 10:52:18 PM »
There is also the MCC-216 and MCC-TV.

Minimig has been ported to a bunch of other boards too, like the Flea FPGA Ohm.

There's a mini version of the MiST.

I don't know how far Acube got with the Minimig Plus, but that looks to have been quietly forgotten probably because of MiST as well as the poorly received decision to use a dragonball CPU.
 

Offline trekiejTopic starter

Re: FPGA Amiga
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2017, 11:56:00 PM »
Thanks.
I am hoping that FPGA computers would be more pervasive by now.
Maybe next year will be the year.
Amiga 2000 Forever :)
Welcome to the Planar System.
 

Offline AdvancedFollower

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Re: FPGA Amiga
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2017, 10:05:42 AM »
The biggest limitation with FPGA seems to be that there are too few FPGA (VHDL) developers, and they have too little spare time to work on the projects. So a lot of FPGA projects look promising for a while, then they get abandoned and the stream of updates dries up. This means they never reach the same level of maturity/compatibility as e.g. UAE, which has been updated regularly for two decades.
 

Offline johnklos

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Re: FPGA Amiga
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2017, 11:31:44 PM »
In my opinion, the biggest problem is that different FPGA developers are working towards different goals.

Some people want new FPGA-based Amigas to have new features that make those devices stand out. They want a new generation of software that can't run on older systems. They, it seems, haven't learned much from the PowerUp versus WarpOS, MorphOS, AROS, et cetera, compatibility issues.

Others want new accelerators and/or new computers based on FPGAs which can run existing software (the reason most of us have Amigas) with modern components and with much greater speed. Extra features are nice, but I don't think there are that many of us who are clamoring for features in new software which make that software not backwards compatible.

Personally, I'd like an FPGA m68k core that looks like an m68040 with an m68040 MMU that has a superset of all m68k instructions, particularly 64 bit instructions that are on the '040 but not '060, and all the FPU instructions that are on the m68881 and '882 but not on the '040 FPU. I'd like everything to Just Work™ without wondering. Something like this could work on Macs, Ataris, and NeXTs, too, if it was made to fit in an '040 socket.

I'm not a fan of extra features when the basic features aren't there yet.
 

Offline SyncByte

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Re: FPGA Amiga
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2018, 09:02:55 AM »
Surely though one of the key benefits of FPGA-based hardware design is the flexibility to alter the design - so technically it should be possible to meet all needs with one project, provided some careful planning comes beforehand.
 

Offline kolla

Re: FPGA Amiga
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2018, 11:25:34 AM »
The "one product" approach is what apollo team is working for, and you see how that goes, lol
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline Kremlar

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Re: FPGA Amiga
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2018, 12:59:43 AM »
Quote from: johnklos;834555
In my opinion, the biggest problem is that different FPGA developers are working towards different goals.

Actually, I think that's a strength.  If you had 4 projects all with the same goal they'd be competing for the same space - which is not good in such a small market.

Quote
Some people want new FPGA-based Amigas to have new features that make those devices stand out. They want a new generation of software that can't run on older systems. They, it seems, haven't learned much from the PowerUp versus WarpOS, MorphOS, AROS, et cetera, compatibility issues.

I disagree.  Although I see advantages to both sides, I definitely see the attraction of a product like the Vampire.  High performance speeds up legacy apps (not so with PowerPC), while the new features tease developers to create enhanced 68K software that can take advantage - which is already happening.

Compatibility issues are overstated.  Is there some software that does not run?  Sure.  But is it any worse than when the Amiga 1200/3000/4000s were released with new chipsets, processors and kickstarts?  No, and I'd say compatibility is actually better and getting better all the time.

Now, I understand concern for those that hate the Vampire for some reason and are afraid of being left in the dust.  But Vampire users enjoy very good compatibility and I suspect it will only get better.

Really, did people complain when 030/040 accelerators or new Amigas were introduced into the market?  The same arguments can be made - "we are fracturing our userbase!"

Quote
Others want new accelerators and/or new computers based on FPGAs which can run existing software (the reason most of us have Amigas) with modern components and with much greater speed. Extra features are nice, but I don't think there are that many of us who are clamoring for features in new software which make that software not backwards compatible.

I think there are many people looking for extra features.  Look at how many Vampires have been sold and there is still a backlog!  The Vampire community seems bigger and more active than the NG community, and it has only been a couple years.  Wait until the 1200 and standalone versions are released!

But I understand your point that some users want hardcore compatibility and no new/little new features.  For those people there are already standard accelerators, though not 060s for a reasonable price.  Perhaps the FPGA Arcade will be the product to fit that niche (for those wanting a standalone device).  If a market really exists for a basic FPGA accelerator with max compatibility and no/few added features then someone will create one.  Perhaps Jens?

Quote
Personally, I'd like an FPGA m68k core that looks like an m68040 with an m68040 MMU that has a superset of all m68k instructions, particularly 64 bit instructions that are on the '040 but not '060, and all the FPU instructions that are on the m68881 and '882 but not on the '040 FPU. I'd like everything to Just Work%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!8482; without wondering. Something like this could work on Macs, Ataris, and NeXTs, too, if it was made to fit in an '040 socket.

Interesting idea, but is it possible with so much software out there that bangs the hardware?  If C= and Motorola could not do it with relatively humongous pockets, can someone today?  And then you add in other platforms and want 99.99% compatibility with all software?  Seems like a lofty goal, but if a hardware developer shares the same want as you it would be an interesting project!

I think what a lot of people fail to understand is that this market is driven by developer wants, not money.  No one is getting rich off of these products, so a developer needs to have a strong desire to create something or there is no reason to.  And when it's no longer fun or interesting development stops.

I hope that does not happen to the Apollo/Vampire team because they are truly creating what I think is an interesting evolution of the 68K Amigas, which is what attracts me and I think most Amiga users to their product.  PowerPC is pretty boring to most Amiga users I'd say.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2018, 01:06:19 AM by Kremlar »
 

Offline QuikSanz

Re: FPGA Amiga
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2018, 04:29:04 AM »
@Kremlar,

+1, very well stated!
 

Offline psxphill

Re: FPGA Amiga
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2018, 11:27:59 AM »
Quote from: johnklos;834555
Personally, I'd like an FPGA m68k core that looks like an m68040 with an m68040 MMU that has a superset of all m68k instructions, particularly 64 bit instructions that are on the '040 but not '060, and all the FPU instructions that are on the m68881 and '882 but not on the '040 FPU. I'd like everything to Just Work™ without wondering. Something like this could work on Macs, Ataris, and NeXTs, too, if it was made to fit in an '040 socket.


What if software is expecting things that were removed from an 040 to also be removed on the FPGA 040? That violates your "everything to Just Work™".

If you don't think there is any software out there (and there may not be) then I can create some for you.