An alternative approach to re-launching classic computers...

[commodorejohn]

If you're so up in arms about CUSA and how the brand has been "abused"  why don't you raise some capital and buy the brand yourself instead of constantly ranting in this thread?  Or better yet, go rant on the CUSA forums or have they banned you there?

Brands get bought, traded, used, abused, etc.....all the time.  Get over it.

And why don't you make it rain gumdrops? I'm working off $10K+ of student loans, trying to cover rent, fixing a car that keeps coming up with new things to need repair, and squeezing in a few pleasures of life when and where I can afford them, thank you very much - I have nothing left over for any business ventures. Believe me, if I could buy out the whole sorry fuçkup that is the CBM/Amiga trademark hoard, I would, but I can't.

And no, I haven't been banned on the CUSA forums because I never joined, because there's enough sycophants around here, thanks. I'm not just going to "get over it," either, not when it's still going on. If people were just licensing a brand name for crap, I wouldn't have anything to say about it, but when they're licensing a brand name for crap and then having their sock-puppets demand applause and swearing of fealty for it, you better believe I'm going to share my opinion about that.

[commodorejohn]

The positive thing about CUSA being American based is that it has created some jobs here in the USA and brought some money into this country.

Has it, now? I wonder, how many people have been hired stateside as a result? How many foreign sales of the C64x have brought how much money into the country? How does all that stack up against the jobs created overseas and the cost of manufacturing sending money out of the country? Guess we'll never know, because if you ask Barry he'll just ask about your sex life and imply that he gets off on watching.

[commodorejohn]

Some of the manufacturing was done right here in the USA, and the design. The guy even setup an office and hired people in Florida to assemble machines and they sold product both here in the states and abroad, bringing money back home. If you bother to take a look at what the guy has done, he's tried to keep as much of the production state side as possible, a very commendable action in my opinion. Who cares what the numbers are, it's a lot better than if this was just some foreign outfit that didn't hire any American workers and just sucked money out of our economy. I guess none of that means squat to you.

And again I ask: exactly how many people were hired stateside? Judging by the pictures, they have a front office and then a work area about the size of the break room at my workplace with maybe half a dozen stations set up on folding tables. How does that stack up against the cash and job flow out of the country? If what really matters here is bettering the American economy (as opposed to, you know, producing a good product, providing quality support, or not being an ******* to the community you keep trying to ingratiate yourself with,) then I'd like to see some actual numbers.

You didn't see the video of the cases popping out of the moulding machine from that Florida injection moulding company or tech benches at their office where they hand assemble the custom orders?

I recall the injection-moulding machine being in a foreign plant, myself, but if you'll provide me a link I'll reconsider as I'm not 100% sure on that. As for the break-room, I maintain that I'd like to know exactly how much of a net gain this is for the precious American economy.

[commodorejohn]

Dude, this pretty petty crap. I know your on a roll this evening, but damn.

Hey, it's your criteria, not mine. If you're going to claim American economic betterment, I'd like to know that it's actually a net gain before I accept that argument.

company: Technicraft Plastics, Ft. Laurdale Florida

Okay, I stand corrected on that point. I'd still like to see some numbers, though.

[commodorejohn]

Commodorejohn, can I ask you to please refrain from such language? Because there's really no need to be so rude mate.

Sorry. Would "seen as many callers as a bargain-priced lady of the evening" be better? 'Cause I'm sticking by the essential point.

The truth is the Commodore of today is 'but a fragment' of its past.

It isn't anything. The Commodore of the 1980s no longer exists. CUSA has rented the name - that's all. They don't have technical know-how, they don't have vision, they don't have anything.

But saying that, building systems from an x86 architecture isn't a bad way to start. You could call it 'building clone computers like everyone else' - but I call it 'moving with the times'.

Call it whatever you want, I care about the end result, and the end result is bog-standard clone hardware in a repro case being marketed as the True Heir to the Throne of something completely different.

Starting from scratch with an x86 basis today doesn't necessarily mean the end of the Amiga line. If utilised correctly we'll get our 'perfect' system of being able to use both retro and modern software in a great case/setup - because the technology is already there.

No it isn't. There's no technology in a C64x but what there is in any other PC. And don't say "but, emulators!" I'm not interested in PC clones running emulators, I already have one.

And unlike the old Amiga system of the past we'll have a system that is constantly upgradable and future-proofed.

There's nothing preventing a non-PC system from being upgradable. Look at how far the original Amigas have come, all thanks to a really solid expansion bus.

All that's needed is the casing, the updated OS, and relevant parts. If such parts are exclusive to CUSA, the systems they produce could still be 'just as unique' as the old Amiga.

But they aren't. You can theorize all you like, but in the end there's nothing unique about the C64x - even the case is cloned from another company. The OS is Linux, it's so not-unique that there are hundreds of different variants on the exact same thing. There is nothing unique about it.

One thing I would like to mention is that while you may think 'going the x86 route' is against everything Commodore/Amiga was, please remember that Jay Miner first originally chose the Motorola chip for the Amiga based upon its predicted performance and nothing more. It was chosen because it was the only chip available at its time that could do the things he thought it could do.

Maybe so. I don't really care. I don't want 68k because I think it's more "authentic," I want it because I like the 68k. It's a good architecture, and it deserves more love.

But instead of focusing on just architecture like it has on the past, it should now focus on the OS, systems performance and value and the kinds of things ie. software/apps/hardware it could offer the end user.

Except for the part where that's exactly what hasn't happened at all.

X86 is clearly a winner (after winning the markets all these years with its potential for expandability).

x86 has jack to do with expandability, whatever its other merits. It's a CPU, not an expansion bus.

Yes, Barry to you 'may' be seen as having nothing to do with Commodore in your eyes, but I see him differently.

That's very nice, but what does it have to do with anything? I don't care how you see him - I've seen his actions and his mannerisms, and I conclude thereby that he is a tool with delusions of grandeur. If you want to live in a fairyland where he doesn't insult people who come to him with honest questions and ask people about their sex lives, you go right ahead.

I ask you to just try to put yourself into his shoes. If YOU were Barry today and running Commodore today, what can you possibly do to revive the brand?

Anything but what he has. He's got money, he could finance the NatAmi project. It'd sell better than the C64x has, I promise you that.

Given the fact that there is FAR MORE competition today than there ever has been, the tech and software for the original Amiga is outdated and most software today is practically designed and based for x86 PC including Apple? In business terms, if you're not in this market or supporting this market you are finished.

Quite the opposite: given that there is far more competition today than there has ever been, the thing to do is enter a completely different market so you don't have to deal with it. If CUSA had supported the community and put weight behind projects the community actually wanted from the start, they would have a unique project that people would want and nobody else would be providing, a.k.a. a captive market.

But if you create a system and brand with an OS that is designed not just for gaming/retro gaming but made for programming in general; not just for simple videos but ideal for multimedia, graphics and broadcast use; not just for digital photography/3D but ready for high-level power image processing, rendering and next-gen softwares and OSes

Linux isn't designed for any of those things, except programming. It has them, but not with the same selection as Windows, and generally not as easy to use, either. They picked Linux because it's free, not because it's some mythic multimedia OS.