Amiga.org
The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Alternative Operating Systems => Topic started by: commodorejohn on November 28, 2011, 04:11:27 PM
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While I would love to go and post this thread about a computer with nothing at all in common with the Amiga in "Amiga News & Community Announcements," as is traditional, I'm afraid I suffer from a compulsion to put threads in the appropriate forums, even at the expense of wantonly flaunting them for attention :(
Now, we all know the obvious and sensible approach to re-launching a classic computer line: first you license a brand name from whoever vultured it from the corpse of the original owner, then sit on it for a few years while you try to decide how best to exploit it, and your CTO has little squabbly feuds with people.
Then you start ballyhooing for a year or so about getting replica cases made and what a miracle of engineering and business that is, while your CEO has big squabbly feuds with people, and you have your hangers-on dance around ever actually admitting that the hardware underneath is going to be a generic PC clone. You also buy ad support from Disney and act like this is proof you've been chosen to be the next Pope.
Then you stick a mediocre PC clone board inside, forget to cool it properly, and yammer about how many hundreds of thousands you're going to sell, and how you've totally got contracts with Wal-Mart, for real, and no people can't see them, while you make a big deal out of getting new office space in a strip mall, and your CEO asks people about their sex lives.Then you sort-of-release it for three times the value of the components, and the mainstream media picks up on it for a day, goes "huh, whaddya know," and utterly forgets about it afterwards, and a handful of people pre-order (make sure to never actually release any numbers, so that nobody can know how poorly you're doing!)
Then you dance around acknowledging the cooling issues for a while, and decide that the thing to do is moderately improve the cooling, but put in a newer, mightier board that will run even hotter, while publically wanking to the idea of selling $25K workstations with $1000 branded cases, even though you think "support" is what you use to keep your junk in place during football practice.
That makes perfect sense, right? It's obviously just good business and helps community relations like you wouldn't believe. So imagine my surprise when I discovered this. (http://www.microbeetechnology.com.au/) These peoples is crazy!
What do they think they're doing? They've got some crazy project where they actually replicate the function of a (cult) classic computer in hardware, when everybody knows the way forward is to give in and become PCs! And even though everybody knows that you can't have custom hardware and not cost a bajillion dollars since that's what limited production runs cost, and custom cases are a miracle from the heavens brought down by the Archangel Barry, they've got both! And all they're asking is $400! Shouldn't that be like ten times that much? It's like they don't understand this business at all!
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that is the difference between idealists and people that just want to make money (as much as possible)
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You are wrong on so many levels, I won't bother to correct you. I will say though, just accept it and move on. You don't want their products, don't buy it. I am at a loss on why this is eating you up like it is. I suggest you just deal with it here and now, everything is OK, things happen for a reason and live life as happy as you can. If you don't, when the massive reality check hits, I fear your life is really going to fall apart.
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You are wrong on so many levels, I won't bother to correct you. I will say though, just accept it and move on. You don't want their products, don't buy it. I am at a loss on why this is eating you up like it is. I suggest you just deal with it here and now, everything is OK, things happen for a reason and live life as happy as you can. If you don't, when the massive reality check hits, I fear your life is really going to fall apart.
Heh, I know it's fun to play armchair psychologist, but actually it's not eating me up at all. I find the whole affair hilarious, in a pathetic kind of way.
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You forgot about coming up with your own linux distro that violates copyright and doesn't work properly...
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You are wrong on so many levels, I won't bother to correct you. I will say though, just accept it and move on. You don't want their products, don't buy it. I am at a loss on why this is eating you up like it is. I suggest you just deal with it here and now, everything is OK, things happen for a reason and live life as happy as you can. If you don't, when the massive reality check hits, I fear your life is really going to fall apart.
I'm in agreement with you and just want to know why this site has degenerated into nothing but CUSA bashing. Amiga.org has become a total waste of time due to folks like Franko and his sock puppet/clone AKA commodorejohhn. I wish they'd set up their own web site and call it something along the lines of http://www.ihatecusa.com or some such and post their tripe on it instead of this site. They're totally counter productive and I'm just sick of hearing all their bitching. Or better yet, since they profess to be so smart, why don't they use their resources to produce a product that people would want to buy instead of spending so much time here whining about CUSA?
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Damn CUSA is harming the C64 & Amiga ideas and the perception people should have about those nice computers coming back.
CUSA should disappear, and I truly hate what they are trying to do, so I hope the worst to them.
But I'm a perfectly happy person otherwise ;)
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@ferrellsl
You haven't yet figured out yourself what's wrong with CUSA? If not, study the subject some more, the "whining" isn't coming out of nowhere...
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It reminds me a little of the old ZX 80 and the ZX 81 which I believe you can still buy in kit form, I think hobbiest would appreciate such a machine.... its ironic, when I first started to read the post I thought you were talking about Commodore...
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@ferrellsl
You haven't yet figured out yourself what's wrong with CUSA? If not, study the subject some more, the "whining" isn't coming out of nowhere...
I really don't care about what's wrong with CUSA. I've heard what's wrong with them "ad nauseum" from folks like you and Franko ever since they started their business. What I care about is what's right with Amiga. That's why I joined this site, but now it's just full of trolls who have nothing better to do than complain about CUSA, among other things, instead of focusing on Amiga, retro-computing and helping each other.
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I'm in agreement with you and just want to know why this site has degenerated into nothing but CUSA bashing. Amiga.org has become a total waste of time due to folks like Franko and his sock puppet/clone AKA commodorejohhn.
I can't be a Franko clone! I'm not even Scotch, I'm Norwegian-American!
And if you want to know why the backlash, you may stop and consider the simple explanation: it's because of the behavior of CUSA as a company, and Barry, BigBenAussie, and dammy as individuals. Or, you know, you could just ignore all that and pretend that there's no basis for it at all.
Or better yet, since they profess to be so smart, why don't they use their resources to produce a product that people would want to buy instead of spending so much time here whining about CUSA?
Would if I had resources :/
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I can't be a Franko clone! I'm not even Scotch, I'm Norwegian-American!
And if you want to know why the backlash, you may stop and consider the simple explanation: it's because of the behavior of CUSA as a company, and Barry, BigBenAussie, and dammy as individuals. Or, you know, you could just ignore all that and pretend that there's no basis for it at all.
Would if I had resources :/
I'm not ignoring anything. I just sick and tired of constantly hearing about it, as are others here. As Dammy said,if you don't like them or their product, then don't buy it. All the CUSA hating here is getting really old. Put a lid on it and do something constructive for a change.
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@ferrellsl
You haven't yet figured out yourself what's wrong with CUSA? If not, study the subject some more, the "whining" isn't coming out of nowhere...
How about pointing to any active threads about C=USA that wasn't started by a C=USA hater? I can remember one thread started by a none C=USA hater this month, or was it last month. Either way, it does seem like people keep dragging this subject out to piss and moan about it to relieve some type of massive frustration that is pent up in their life.
It's nearing the holiday season. Go out and prepare for happy times of being with family and friends. That's the real importance of life, being with those you care about and eating some fattening foods plus drinking adult beverages along the way.
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It's nearing the holiday season. Go out and prepare for happy times of being with family and friends. That's the real importance of life, being with those you care about and eating some fattening foods plus drinking adult beverages along the way.
Oh, I am. But that doesn't preclude me from doing this!
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I really don't care about what's wrong with CUSA. I've heard what's wrong with them "ad nauseum" from folks like you and Franko ever since they started their business. What I care about is what's right with Amiga. That's why I joined this site, but now it's just full of trolls who have nothing better to do than complain about CUSA, among other things, instead of focusing on Amiga, retro-computing and helping each other.
I agree with you.
I am also fed up with people launching a tirade of abuse at C=USA, if you don't like their products don't purchase them.
I also felt that Commodorejohns response to Novacoders comment in a previous recent thread was inappropriate to put it mildly.
If you do not agree with anothers opinion, fine document it but do not call their opinion " a load of sh*t", where are your manners? :confused:
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If you do not agree with anothers opinion, fine document it but do not call their opinion " a load of sh*t", where are your manners? :confused:
Oh, sorry, my apologies. I'll make a note to, in the future, refer to the notion that a company producing products is an impressive achievement and should win them credit and goodwill despite shoddy design and poor customer service as "a pile of feces."
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Its pretty simple. If Dammy would just go away then C-USA would probably rarely be brought up around here. I'd say 90% of the C-USA hate threads are one's started by Dammy announcing something about C-USA.
I'm sorry that you guys are tired of the whinning but they brought it all on themselves.
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Dammy, to be entirely fair - your non news "news" posts on C-USA happenings have kicked up more of a storm here from "the haters" than any threads said "haters" ever took the initiative to start. While I dislike C-USA, I'm far too lazy to openly instigate and start a smack talking thread against them - give me some credit.
Your news threads. Yours, Dammy. You, a moderator and unofficial spokesman for C-USA.
All I desired to see prior to the launch of their products was a review by an independent source of these machines once they were released. Engadget type reviews, not "Joe gets his new 64x unboxing on YouTube". Sadly I've not yet seen one. For a product a company is so apparently proud of, I do find that odd - and by God don't link that Tom's Hardware blurb and try and pass it off as a review, lol.
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And if you want to know why the backlash, you may stop and consider the simple explanation: it's because of the behavior of CUSA as a company, and Barry, BigBenAussie, and dammy as individuals.
Care to enlighten me why you're torturing us then?
Some of us really don't care, but we have to endure your crusade now aswell, because the other kids were so nasty to you?
That sounds fair.
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Care to enlighten me why you're torturing us then?
Some of us really don't care, but we have to endure your crusade now aswell, because the other kids were so nasty to you?
That sounds fair.
No, I just think it's funny to note that there are companies out there who are actually doing what CUSA wanted people to think they were doing, not trying to sell it as a luxury good, and not standing atop a little hillock and proclaiming themselves King of the World for it. Good on you, Microbee.
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I'd say 90% of the C-USA hate threads are one's started by Dammy announcing something about C-USA.
That's utter bull****, sorry. And you can easily verify this yourself by the stats on his profile page: In the last four months, Dammy started exactly one thread, and that was two months ago.
This whole alleged propaganda campaign is a myth. Dammy and a few others did try to advertise CUSA here, but that has stopped ages ago. And even back then, the threads started by CUSA 'critics' (I'm being polite here) by far outnumbered the ones started by Dammy and the other fanboys. And don't even think about arguing this point, or I'll mention Franko.
Disclaimer:
CUSA is a predictable, boring and incompetent outfit run by a used car sales man who employs a 'CTO' who was still daydreaming about AmigaDE half a decade after the rest of the world had moved on. I'm not defending them, I just don't think we should have more CUSA traffic here than on their own forum.
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Its true that he has eased up a bit lately but I'm sure when their "Amiga" line comes out he'll be back in full force.
I totally agree with your disclaimer. I wish all talk of them would just disappear from this site. They have their own forums for their stuff.
That's utter bull****, sorry. And you can easily verify this yourself by the stats on his profile page: In the last four months, Dammy started exactly one thread, and that was two months ago.
This whole alleged propaganda campaign is a myth. Dammy and a few others did try to advertise CUSA here, but that has stopped ages ago. And even back then, the threads started by CUSA 'critics' (I'm being polite here) by far outnumbered the ones started by Dammy and the other fanboys. And don't even think about arguing this point, or I'll mention Franko.
Disclaimer:
CUSA is a predictable, boring and incompetent outfit run by a used car sales man who employs a 'CTO' who was still daydreaming about AmigaDE half a decade after the rest of the world had moved on. I'm not defending them, I just don't think we should have more CUSA traffic here than on their own forum.
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My beef is that CUSA should make Commodore PC's, Commodore Mp3 players, if they like call it an Amiga, but have nothing to do with original commodore/amiga or even try to steal its thunder. Be brave, take the name make a fortune but don't try to pretend your a friend of the classic/ppc amiga scene, it cannot replace my memories no matter how many "Mutton dressed up as lamb" pc's they sell. It will never be an Amiga in spirit or in my home.
Next someone will be trying to tell me that they have the next gen zx81 with I7 processor. Sorry mate it just doesn't crash enough to be even called a ZX81. Randomize USR 9000!
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I really don't care about what's wrong with CUSA. I've heard what's wrong with them "ad nauseum" from folks like you and Franko ever since they started their business. What I care about is what's right with Amiga. That's why I joined this site, but now it's just full of trolls who have nothing better to do than complain about CUSA, among other things, instead of focusing on Amiga, retro-computing and helping each other.
I take it you will be buying a C=USA "AMIGA" for $3000 then even though it's a low rent $250 PC motherboard and cheap plastic case combo?
Because if not.............
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My opinion: If You start a business and You want to use a popular name and You know there is a quite fanatic followership You should take care to satisfy them or better use another name with no active however fanbase.
What did CUSA wronger than wrong - they pissed on the Amiga users so who wonders what is the outcome of that.
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I take it you will be buying a C=USA "AMIGA" for $3000 then even though it's a low rent $250 PC motherboard and cheap plastic case combo?
Because if not.............
Nope. I'm saving my money for a Natami and in the mean time trying not to let clowns like you annoy the hell out of me. Why don't you troll the CUSA forums and leave us alone? You want to bitch about CUSA, then tell them about it. We're tired of hearing about it here.
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My opinion: If You start a business and You want to use a popular name and You know there is a quite fanatic followership You should take care to satisfy them or better use another name with no active however fanbase.
What did CUSA wronger than wrong - they pissed on the Amiga users so who wonders what is the outcome of that.
they pissed on the commodore community and the amiga community big time.. i have never in my life seen someone that have a business acting like mister barry. the commodore amiga curse is still alive and well, i guess...
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A CUSA machine is not on my wish list. A Natami is. Sorry CUSA
Chris
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We're tired of hearing about it here.
What you mean of course is that YOU are tired of it. Don't be so damned arrogant. Do you think you speak for anyone else on A.org? You sure don't speak for me, CUSA to me is just some shoddy company that rapes the Amiga name for profit and does nothing to advance real Amiga's at all. Franko on the other hand, annoying or not, is a talented enthusiast whose heart and personal time is put into writing Amiga code for us all to use. He has done more for Amiga than CUSA has, that's for sure.
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What you mean of course is that YOU are tired of it. Don't be so damned arrogant. Do you think you speak for anyone else on A.org? You sure don't speak for me, CUSA to me is just some shoddy company that rapes the Amiga name for profit and does nothing to advance real Amiga's at all. Franko on the other hand, annoying or not, is a talented enthusiast whose heart and personal time is put into writing Amiga code for us all to use. He has done more for Amiga than CUSA has, that's for sure.
He sure speaks for me too.
I'm tired as well of hearing always the same bunch of people ready to moan like crybabies at the first sight of a yellow drop (which could be beer) in one of their "approved" threads, while at the same time they find perfectly reasonable to throw piss in buckets or barrels quantity onto anything "not kosher" according to their own judgement.
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I'm tired as well of hearing always the same bunch of people ready to moan like crybabies at the first sight of a yellow drop (which could be beer) in one of their "approved" threads, while at the same time they find perfectly reasonable to throw piss in buckets or barrels quantity onto anything "not kosher" according to their own judgement.
I've never complained about people disagreeing with me in threads where I express my opinion, I just disagree with their disagreement. That's kind of how opinions work.
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He sure speaks for me too.
I'm tired as well of hearing always the same bunch of people ready to moan like crybabies at the first sight of a yellow drop (which could be beer) in one of their "approved" threads, while at the same time they find perfectly reasonable to throw piss in buckets or barrels quantity onto anything "not kosher" according to their own judgement.
+1 :)
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I've never complained about people disagreeing with me in threads where I express my opinion, I just disagree with their disagreement. That's kind of how opinions work.
Fine then.
So I can expect that every time I feel the urge to speak my mind about the X1000 being an overpriced doorstop, or similar dislike of Natami etc., regardless of the relevance to the thread, you'll be there disagreeing with me and yet supporting my freedom of speech.
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So I can expect that every time I feel the urge to speak my mind about that the X1000 being an overpriced doorstop, or similar dislike of Natami etc., regardless of the relevance to the thread, you'll be there disagreeing with me and yet supporting my freedom of speech.
No, I agree with you about the X1000. But if you mean "will I keep stating my opinion on whatever subject comes up," yes, that's kind of what forums are for.
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I'm sure CUSA bashing will end soon because these products are so bad and useless they won't be able to keep on going like that and should go bankrupt soon according to business logic.
Uninteresting product + bad support = big loss of money its quite obvious...
@commodorejohn
I love your thread top message, you sure have a talent for writing what a lot of us non-english speaking amigans are thinking :)
Even overpriced the X1000 is at least an original product that does not insult the Amiga name. There is something called "business ethic" and I don't think CUSA has some...
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Fine then.
So I can expect that every time I feel the urge to speak my mind about the X1000 being an overpriced doorstop, or similar dislike of Natami etc., regardless of the relevance to the thread, you'll be there disagreeing with me and yet supporting my freedom of speech.
Dude, the only things you ever post about are CUSA related anyway, maybe you should just use the CUSA forums and be happy. That way the long term Amiga users CUSA insult can rant away as much as we like and we can't upset you.
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Dude, the only things you ever post about are CUSA related anyway, maybe you should just use the CUSA forums and be happy.
And your point is?
I don't owe you any proof of loyalty to the holy cause... nor to demonstrate that "I'm not dammy" :roflmao:
Maybe it's in order to remeber that during Generalissimo Franko epoch you haters promoted NOT ONE BUT TWO polls intended to outlaw CUSA posts.
But you were outnumbered in both.
Still the moderators thought that instead of having you STFU, the sock drawer was a better idea. A decision that I respect: their site, their policy.
The very moment I'll be asked to leave by them, I'll do it promptly.
That way the long term Amiga users CUSA insult can rant away as much as we like and we can't upset you.
"Long term amiga user" is another slippery and subjective definition, just like "Amiga" itself. According to my join date, I'm longer term user than you.
In your own words, don't be so damned arrogant.
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Maybe it's in order to remeber that during Generalissimo Franko epoch you haters promoted NOT ONE BUT TWO polls intended to outlaw CUSA posts.
But you were outnumbered in both.
Actually, more than a few of us "haters" voted against that.
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@Hairy
First off, My point I already made, it's the point about you finding a happy place in your life with people of like mind. I think we should all try to be happy.
Secondly,I promoted no such poll. Off you go with that royal "we" attitude again.
Thirdly, I agreed with the mods decision anyway as I'm anti-censorship...
...and as for how long I've been an Amiga user, how the hell does that relate to my A.org join date? I've been an Amiga user since the 80's, before I ever had internet.
Finally, Arrogance is defined as having or showing an exaggerated opinion of one's own importance, by assuming the opinion of others as your own by using "we" instead of "I" for example. As you did earlier. I make no such assumption, only a suggestion that may help you find peace and tranquility. I'm just trying to help dude. ;)
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So it seems that most folks here are either tired of C-USA or tired of the haters against C-USA. I would say that the solution would be for everyone to just register and post on their forum but the problem is that they delete anything there that is even the slightest bit negative, even if it's a valid question.
This is why we have to eternal loop going on here........
And your point is?
I don't owe you any proof of loyalty to the holy cause... nor to demonstrate that "I'm not dammy" :roflmao:
Maybe it's in order to remeber that during Generalissimo Franko epoch you haters promoted NOT ONE BUT TWO polls intended to outlaw CUSA posts.
But you were outnumbered in both.
Still the moderators thought that instead of having you STFU, the sock drawer was a better idea. A decision that I respect: their site, their policy.
The very moment I'll be asked to leave by them, I'll do it promptly.
"Long term amiga user" is another slippery and subjective definition, just like "Amiga" itself. According to my join date, I'm longer term user than you.
In your own words, don't be so damned arrogant.
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I just sharted...
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The hysterical thing is how oddly defensive people are about their particular views. It's not about C-USA, or "the grand lineage of the Amiga" really, is it? And before you know it, people are pulling the old "freedom of speech" card.
Enjoy what you got, buy what you want - and you SHOULD be able to voice your opinions in a sane and civil manner here. If you feel C-USA is the future of the line, I'd love to hear a civil conversation about it that doesn't parrot a bunch of PR hype. If you're of the old school camp and feel C-USA's offerings are the equivalent of raping you of your fond childhood Amiga moments, you should be able to point that out. We are all capable of ignoring threads, and users, and at times I can see now that I have not helped situations with my contributions to threads. I'm trying my best personally to not fuel the flames, but it's often hard to refrain from when people sweep blatant facts under the rug, you know? One of the first times I ever spoke out against a certain camp, the one time I asked a few questions - I got personally harassed via PM for it.
That garbage doesn't matter to anyone with a brain. It's filler. I could sit here and pull my usual troll routine of pointing out hideous business management tactics and it likely won't keep anyone from buying a machine they are interested in. If you are an old school Amigan, you know damned well the idea of a $ 25,000 x86 PC in a case is ludicrous. If you are convinced said offerings from Commodore Usa, LLC - whether they be a 64, VIC or Amiga are a true revolution and not just a badge on a Linux PC (they admittedly are atm, even by C-USA's own description, I'd love to hear your angle on it. I hope anyone that buys the Amiga of their choosing enjoys it, old, new, or otherwise.
We're all big boys and girls, capable of discussing hot button topics rationally - and I admit myself that I have fueled flames when I should have, which is a habit I am trying to break unless someone is outright lying about blatant facts.
Know who the true victims here are? The little guys - the guys like the Natami guys, guys like the FPGA Arcade dudes burning their fingers with soldering irons, making what is as close to a modern day next gen, daily driver Amiga for all of us at likely very little to no profit. Hell, even the PPC Amiga (and AROS on the other side, of course) guys should be entirely applauded for their efforts - MOS, OS4, etc. for keeping the boat afloat this long.
We can have civil debate here, and we can all ignore threads that offer differing viewpoints. But for God's sakes, let's not ignore the above mentioned "little guys". I'm sure we can all agree that aspect is extremely important, even if you are a next gen or non traditional PPC/Motorola fan.
Without the little guys we wouldn't be as far as we are.
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Balls!
We need something similar to the Efika but the next line up in the CPU range that offers more Ram and Sata etc and maybe built in 3D GPU
Maybe two versions A box type Amiga Nano £149 or a 10" Tablet £199
Simple and Cost Effective is USEFULL!
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Would be nice, but unfortunately, the people interested in producing something like that don't have the resources, and the people who have the resources aren't interested :/
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After having visited the commodore-usa website and installed their downloadable Beta OS...i gave it a try in a "regular pc". Its based on a Linux mint distro and looks pretty nice. The question if this has anything to do with the Commodore 64 i used to know from back then... nah..i dont think so.
But, instead of having for a Windows (or other os) based machine for Emulation use, u could also take a look at the Commodore os. I created a small movie running Commodore OS on my pc.
http://www.skateman.nl/2011/11/28/commodore-os-vision-running-on-my-pc/
Skateman1972
http://www.skateman.nl
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After having visited the commodore-usa website and installed their downloadable Beta OS...i gave it a try in a "regular pc". Its based on a Linux mint distro and looks pretty nice. The question if this has anything to do with the Commodore 64 i used to know from back then... nah..i dont think so.
But, instead of having for a Windows (or other os) based machine for Emulation use, u could also take a look at the Commodore os. I created a small movie running Commodore OS on my pc.
http://www.skateman.nl/2011/11/28/commodore-os-vision-running-on-my-pc/
Skateman1972
http://www.skateman.nl
You downloaded the Beta that does not contain copyrighted material that the owners of C=USA machines will be getting. Namely the C64/Amiga Forever plus literally thousands of C64 games.
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Or, alternatively, one could skip out on licensing the OS and just purchase the C64Forever/Amiga Forever oneself...
(Or *gasp* *shock* *horrors* one could simply download the games in question off a ROM site.)
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Apart from Dammy being... well... Dammy, and the rest of the "CUSA suxxorz!" or "Yaay CUSA!" crowd, I am intrigued at this bumblebee thing. Is it cheaper:
A: Because no one is trying to label it as anything "specific", just that it is hardware equivalent?
B: lack of the specialty chips?
C: Craptons of Zilog chips errywhere? (weren't they massively "cloned" by the Russkies?)
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I'm assuming it's probably B/C, lots of Z80 micros were built out of different combinations of off-the-shelf parts, and some of them still have kit variants around (for example, it's cheaper to build your own Jupiter Ace than pay the prices the few surviving command.) But it's not just a Microbee rebuild; I dunno how the extra hardware factors in.
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After having visited the commodore-usa website and installed their downloadable Beta OS...i gave it a try in a "regular pc". Its based on a Linux mint distro and looks pretty nice. The question if this has anything to do with the Commodore 64 i used to know from back then... nah..i dont think so.
==Skateman, I appreciate the 'review' you've put up for the COS Vision and all, but I disagree with what you say here that the COS has 'nothing to do with C64'. CUSA is producing Commodore computers and a C64 for the 'modern age' (albeit with a nostalgic slant here, complete with fully custom Cherry Blue keyboard - just to please those fans).
I don't claim to be 'their spokesman' (I am not, just an outside client/observer). But I will say to you (and others) what needs to be said (just to give you some perspective).
To clarify I think what you and maybe some in the larger community haven't grasped is maybe two things. First is that CUSA was very lucky to have obtained the proper Commodore licence (for the brand). The CTO has mentioned to me a few times already that there were other interested parties (some foreign companies with more resources) who wanted to buy the C= licence. It is with pure luck that it is still in American hands and can still eventually be the former company it once was (with you and others help). You may not appreciate this fact, but some of us do. Because without CUSA's intervention we wouldn't even be having this conversation....
And the second point is, please try to understand is that CUSA is trying to work from a point not where Commodore left off, but the most likely route Commodore would have taken (and been on now) had they still been around, with whatever resources are at their disposal worldwide (be it mass production/available platforms/product quality etc). Much progress has happened in the technology world and the Commodore of today cannot ignore those changes (like it did in the past), whether in systems architecture, manufacturing, CPU/graphic card design or available/supported software. To do so (and going against the grain of what has happened/developed over the years), is simply to dig their own grave yet again. That's why I understand the route of where they are going - because it has to be realistic ie. it has to make them money whilst still meeting all their other requirements/targets. It isn't easy in this day and age because there are plenty more gaming systems/OSes/platforms that has appeared since the C64/Amiga (and far outweigh their performance). Compatibility with other systems ie. x86 therefore is probably the only logical way forward for the Commodore/Amiga brands now. You may like to disagree with what I'm saying here, but this is the truth.
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==Skateman, I appreciate the 'review' you've put up for the COS Vision and all, but I disagree with what you say here that the COS has 'nothing to do with C64'. CUSA is producing Commodore computers and a C64 for the 'modern age' (albeit with a nostalgic slant here, complete with fully custom Cherry Blue keyboard - just to please those fans).
No, they're producing a PC in a C64 case.
First is that CUSA was very lucky to have obtained the proper Commodore licence (for the brand).
Luck had nothing to do with it. Money did. The Commodore and Amiga brands have been passed around like a two-dollar whore since the bankruptcy back in 1994 - Barry's just the latest "client."
It is with pure luck that it is still in American hands and can still eventually be the former company it once was (with you and others help).
Is that what's important? That as long as it's Americans exploiting the brand, insulting the community, and slandering and demeaning anybody who raises objections, it's okay? (And should I even have to point out that the C64x is generic Chinese PC components in a case manufactured overseas, and IIRC assembled in China as well? It's about as American as escargot.)
And the second point is, please try to understand is that CUSA is trying to work from a point not where Commodore left off, but the most likely route Commodore would have taken (and been on now) had they still been around,
Okay, even taking that statement at face value? Why is that a good thing!? Commodore corporate never had any idea what it was doing, not since the initial success of the C64 and the launch of the Amiga. The community is armed to the gills with tales from engineers and programmers ready and willing to attest to how ineptly things were run. We'd be better off trying to figure out what post-Tramiel Commodore would never have done in a million years than try to follow some theoretical progression from the days of R&D malaise, countless failed side-projects, and executive malfeasance.
Much progress has happened in the technology world and the Commodore of today cannot ignore those changes (like it did in the past), whether in systems architecture, manufacturing, CPU/graphic card design or available/supported software. To do so (and going against the grain of what has happened/developed over the years), is simply to dig their own grave yet again.
Here's my question, though. If you're not making something different, then you're going head-to-head with the entire established industry. And if you're doing that, what could you possibly have that would leave you in a position to even stay afloat, let alone make any headway? Here's a hint, a brand and a fancy case are not going to cut it in the cut-throat, slash-price world of PC clone manufacturers. You'd have better luck trying to swim in a pool of pirahnas.
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If you're so up in arms about CUSA and how the brand has been "abused" why don't you raise some capital and buy the brand yourself instead of constantly ranting in this thread? Or better yet, go rant on the CUSA forums or have they banned you there?
Brands get bought, traded, used, abused, etc.....all the time. Get over it.
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The positive thing about CUSA being American based is that it has created some jobs here in the USA and brought some money into this country.
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If you're so up in arms about CUSA and how the brand has been "abused" why don't you raise some capital and buy the brand yourself instead of constantly ranting in this thread? Or better yet, go rant on the CUSA forums or have they banned you there?
Brands get bought, traded, used, abused, etc.....all the time. Get over it.
And why don't you make it rain gumdrops? I'm working off $10K+ of student loans, trying to cover rent, fixing a car that keeps coming up with new things to need repair, and squeezing in a few pleasures of life when and where I can afford them, thank you very much - I have nothing left over for any business ventures. Believe me, if I could buy out the whole sorry fuçkup that is the CBM/Amiga trademark hoard, I would, but I can't.
And no, I haven't been banned on the CUSA forums because I never joined, because there's enough sycophants around here, thanks. I'm not just going to "get over it," either, not when it's still going on. If people were just licensing a brand name for crap, I wouldn't have anything to say about it, but when they're licensing a brand name for crap and then having their sock-puppets demand applause and swearing of fealty for it, you better believe I'm going to share my opinion about that.
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The positive thing about CUSA being American based is that it has created some jobs here in the USA and brought some money into this country.
Has it, now? I wonder, how many people have been hired stateside as a result? How many foreign sales of the C64x have brought how much money into the country? How does all that stack up against the jobs created overseas and the cost of manufacturing sending money out of the country? Guess we'll never know, because if you ask Barry he'll just ask about your sex life and imply that he gets off on watching.
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The positive thing about CUSA being American based is that it has created some jobs here in the USA and brought some money into this country.
To some extent I agree - and while I am Canadian and not American, kudos for them for keeping some things on our shores on this continent. But I am not about to give too big of a round of applause for selling the VIC computers at 4x price buff when there isn't a *******ed thing "American" about it. You can find one of them for $130 online, and you are paying $300+ more for a box and a rebadged Linux distro. I am not their market, I suppose.
They still share contact numbers with a furniture dealer and a therapist, so lets not get ahead of ourselves and think for one second they have anything but a boxing/packing facility going on. There's no Jony Ive of the future sitting there with pen and paper in hand, whipping up the next world shaker bit of tech in a back room. If tours are given at the place, I'd be happy to visit them next time I am down that way, in fact - I'd love to be proved wrong, but no NDA or "no photos" nonsense, lol.
Sorry, all the fancy pictures of their workstations and facilities might just be grabs off Google images just like their "factory" pics and their "prototypes" pic page that they removed credits from the original artists on. Or the promises that all these machines would be flying off the shelves of Best Buy. Or the, well - ad nauseum that could go on forever.
That being said, I am anti censorship, here and elsewhere - even in regards to C-USA. I can ignore what I like, but there's no re-invention of the wheel here, boys. C-USA has had a fervent belief and history here on these forums, using the free speech nature of it (A.org) is the equivalent of free advertising via sheer spam and such for them, and I just wish they would simply pony up and buy adspace. The fact they haven't is the sole reason I have never contributed one thin dime to the A.org kitty. Simple as that. I love this site, use it a lot - but why should I contribute just to converse when others use it as a viral ad campaign? C-USA is not alone in doing this, either - the difference is they have been rude, deceptive and outright hostile in the treatment of the community here. I won't contribute to this great community resource forums while others use it as a backhanded, vehement advertising dropzone. And anyone saying "derp, I don't care what they have said or done to people, let their products speak for themselves" doesn't deserve the eyes in their heads. The fanboys have made threats, insults, homophobic slurs, the works - that counts for something, doesn't it? Would you eat at a restaurant that the waiter says "Have a good day, you a$$hole, I hope you get cancer" when you pay your bill after it happened the first time?
These systems are less American than my iProducts, lol - at least Apple is making the A series chips in the US (Texas) facility soon, and the designers are Americans paying American taxes, the company employing thousands of Americans.
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Has it, now? I wonder, how many people have been hired stateside as a result? How many foreign sales of the C64x have brought how much money into the country? How does all that stack up against the jobs created overseas and the cost of manufacturing sending money out of the country? Guess we'll never know, because if you ask Barry he'll just ask about your sex life and imply that he gets off on watching.
Some of the manufacturing was done right here in the USA, and the design. The guy even setup an office and hired people in Florida to assemble machines and they sold product both here in the states and abroad, bringing money back home. If you bother to take a look at what the guy has done, he's tried to keep as much of the production state side as possible, a very commendable action in my opinion. Who cares what the numbers are, it's a lot better than if this was just some foreign outfit that didn't hire any American workers and just sucked money out of our economy. I guess none of that means squat to you.
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They still share contact numbers with a furniture dealer and a therapist, so lets not get ahead of ourselves and think for one second they have anything but a boxing/packing facility going on.
You didn't see the video of the cases popping out of the moulding machine from that Florida injection moulding company or tech benches at their office where they hand assemble the custom orders?
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Some of the manufacturing was done right here in the USA, and the design. The guy even setup an office and hired people in Florida to assemble machines and they sold product both here in the states and abroad, bringing money back home. If you bother to take a look at what the guy has done, he's tried to keep as much of the production state side as possible, a very commendable action in my opinion. Who cares what the numbers are, it's a lot better than if this was just some foreign outfit that didn't hire any American workers and just sucked money out of our economy. I guess none of that means squat to you.
And again I ask: exactly how many people were hired stateside? Judging by the pictures, they have a front office and then a work area about the size of the break room at my workplace with maybe half a dozen stations set up on folding tables. How does that stack up against the cash and job flow out of the country? If what really matters here is bettering the American economy (as opposed to, you know, producing a good product, providing quality support, or not being an ******* to the community you keep trying to ingratiate yourself with,) then I'd like to see some actual numbers.
You didn't see the video of the cases popping out of the moulding machine from that Florida injection moulding company or tech benches at their office where they hand assemble the custom orders?
I recall the injection-moulding machine being in a foreign plant, myself, but if you'll provide me a link I'll reconsider as I'm not 100% sure on that. As for the break-room, I maintain that I'd like to know exactly how much of a net gain this is for the precious American economy.
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And again I ask: exactly how many people were hired stateside? Judging by the pictures, they have a front office and then a work area about the size of the break room at my workplace with maybe half a dozen stations set up on folding tables. How does that stack up against the cash and job flow out of the country? If what really matters here is bettering the American economy (as opposed to, you know, producing a good product, providing quality support, or not being an ******* to the community you keep trying to ingratiate yourself with,) then I'd like to see some actual numbers.
Dude, this pretty petty crap. I know your on a roll this evening, but damn.
I recall the injection-moulding machine being in a foreign plant, myself, but if you'll provide me a link I'll reconsider as I'm not 100% sure on that. As for the break-room, I maintain that I'd like to know exactly how much of a net gain this is for the precious American economy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcCnZc_i63c&feature=player_embedded#!
company: Technicraft Plastics, Ft. Laurdale Florida
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Dude, this pretty petty crap. I know your on a roll this evening, but damn.
Hey, it's your criteria, not mine. If you're going to claim American economic betterment, I'd like to know that it's actually a net gain before I accept that argument.
company: Technicraft Plastics, Ft. Laurdale Florida
Okay, I stand corrected on that point. I'd still like to see some numbers, though.
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We all saw the videos, and all considered the source of said videos. For all I know that plastics place could have done a handful of protos of them, and the rest of the case housings were made in China, lol. Hell, there may have only been 200 of the machines ever made thus far anyways, but I will give them props for using a local source at some stage.
I saw videos from the same company that also posted pics of their manufacturing facilities that later turned out to be some 3 year old pic from some fabber overseas. I saw videos from the same company that posted "fan pics" of dream machines, in which they removed all credits to the original artist. I saw videos from the same company that has harassed, slandered, made homophobic rumors up about respected members of the community and tech journalism industry. The same people who have fanboys that have made outright threats to people here and elsewhere for politely speaking their minds about their differing opinions on products. See my point, lol?
A pile of horseplop at first glance still stinks, no matter how many perfume bottles I see thrown at it - and I am merely saying "consider the source".
No one ever addresses all the negative and outright hostile, appalling aspects of their business practices, usage of community sites to spam for free advertising purposes, and failure to deliver on a lot of promises, and it's very blind to only see one side of the coin. The benefit of doubt has been given 1000 times over and we are only told here that "we aren't their target market", and I would have expected them to move on by now. People keep telling us that the sky is purple, and when we say "ok, convince me, I'm all ears and eyes" they shove their fingers in their ears and shout "LALALALA I CANNOT HEAR YOU LALALALALA, TRON MOVIE! BIG BUSINESS!!11!!1" like a small child.
Like I said 100 times over and I never got an answer once, and in fact got a ban on their forums for it - when is one of these machines going to be mailed to a reputable review site in the caliber of Engadget for a no holds barred review? The fact that hasn't occurred does not speak well. If I was making these great machines, I'd be mailing them en masse to review sites.
I was hoping to get a hands on with one personally, after being told they would be in big name retailers on the shelves. Every big name retailer I have inquired with in many cities, large and small - in North America says "Commodore what, didn't they used to make calculators or typewriters or something? We don't carry those, we sell computers and modern electronics", like I was some sort of caveman asking when fire was invented.
And in the end, my sincere hope is that guys like the FPGA Arcade crew and the Natami folks put out a product at a price with good performance and they sell so many they simply can't keep them in stock. That's who deserves the kudos and revenue vs. this mass market commodity stuff.
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And in the end, my sincere hope is that guys like the FPGA Arcade crew and the Natami folks put out a product at a price with good performance and they sell so many they simply can't keep them in stock. That's who deserves the kudos and revenue vs. this mass market commodity stuff.
Well said!! :D
That, true Amiga hardware, is where my hopes are.
I'm waiting for my FPGA Arcade and I'm a very happy Minimig user already. It feels exactly as my A1200 does for games, programs and demos. And FPGA Arcade will take that far beyond!
Damn CUSA for using names they don't respect!
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No, they're producing a PC in a C64 case.
==Yes they are not denying that. We all know it is....
Luck had nothing to do with it. Money did. The Commodore and Amiga brands have been passed around like a two-dollar whore since the bankruptcy back in 1994 - Barry's just the latest "client."
==Commodorejohn, can I ask you to please refrain from such language? Because there's really no need to be so rude mate. Can you please just stick back to the topic at hand (which is alternative operating systems?). Thanks....
Is that what's important? That as long as it's Americans exploiting the brand, insulting the community, and slandering and demeaning anybody who raises objections, it's okay? (And should I even have to point out that the C64x is generic Chinese PC components in a case manufactured overseas, and IIRC assembled in China as well? It's about as American as escargot.)
==Well for some folks, I suppose it IS important (Commodore's history WAS American and I believe that it should stay American for all times sake, out of respect for those folks who once lived and worked in Chester). But I disagree with you on the disrespect part. NOBODY should be disrespectful to anyone....
Look, I understand how you guys feel about the importance of 'preserving' the essence of Commodore & Amiga's past, but you guys are also missing some key facts here. The truth is the Commodore of today is 'but a fragment' of its past. Much of its patent portfolios were sold as has past technical knowledge and knowhow - so it has to start from scratch somewhere without ploughing millions or tons of resources which it doesn't have at its disposal. We acknowledge it isn't Sony, but it can be done with the right mindset. But saying that, building systems from an x86 architecture isn't a bad way to start. You could call it 'building clone computers like everyone else' - but I call it 'moving with the times'.
Starting from scratch with an x86 basis today doesn't necessarily mean the end of the Amiga line. If utilised correctly we'll get our 'perfect' system of being able to use both retro and modern software in a great case/setup - because the technology is already there. And unlike the old Amiga system of the past we'll have a system that is constantly upgradable and future-proofed. All that's needed is the casing, the updated OS, and relevant parts. If such parts are exclusive to CUSA, the systems they produce could still be 'just as unique' as the old Amiga.
One thing I would like to mention is that while you may think 'going the x86 route' is against everything Commodore/Amiga was, please remember that Jay Miner first originally chose the Motorola chip for the Amiga based upon its predicted performance and nothing more. It was chosen because it was the only chip available at its time that could do the things he thought it could do. Now that the x86 has surpassed the 68k design not just in sales but support, it is high time Amiga as a line/brand should do the same and become 'mainstream'. But instead of focusing on just architecture like it has on the past, it should now focus on the OS, systems performance and value and the kinds of things ie. software/apps/hardware it could offer the end user. If done well, a brand with its own exclusive OS and hardware dedicated to fun, gaming, performance and individual creativity can still be met and be proud to call itself an Amiga....
Also the idea of switching platforms to one of emulation (like what CUSA has done with using Amiga Forever/Vice/UAE) isn't a bad one. A good example of this is Sony's new PS Vita. Despite being a 'Playstation portable' the new Vita actually only emulates the old PSP games using the new ARM-based quad-core chips.
As for the C64x, no the motherboard is not Chinese it was Taiwanese. But the case IS made in Florida with the help of Motorola.
Okay, even taking that statement at face value? Why is that a good thing!? Commodore corporate never had any idea what it was doing, not since the initial success of the C64 and the launch of the Amiga. The community is armed to the gills with tales from engineers and programmers ready and willing to attest to how ineptly things were run. We'd be better off trying to figure out what post-Tramiel Commodore would never have done in a million years than try to follow some theoretical progression from the days of R&D malaise, countless failed side-projects, and executive malfeasance.
==Yes, we know that. And that's unfortunately that's a trait of the computer business....
It's not just Commodore who had this problem. I remember Steve Jobs had mentioned this about Apple too in its early days (watch Jobs' Next videos on Youtube). There were too many engineers coming up with so many ideas ie. too many cooks who could spoil the broth that the company was being stalled and coming to roadblocks.......because it couldn't decide where to go. It was the same problem that Apple faced, same problem that Commodore faced (and where they failed). This is the same problem CUSA and we as a community are facing today. The issue now however is, technology has moved on, and we DO have a choice. X86 is clearly a winner (after winning the markets all these years with its potential for expandability). All that is needed now is the porting over of AmigaOS to the platform, updated to 64-bit etc. and exclusive to CUSA systems and we're set!
Here's my question, though. If you're not making something different, then you're going head-to-head with the entire established industry. And if you're doing that, what could you possibly have that would leave you in a position to even stay afloat, let alone make any headway? Here's a hint, a brand and a fancy case are not going to cut it in the cut-throat, slash-price world of PC clone manufacturers. You'd have better luck trying to swim in a pool of pirahnas.
Yes, Barry to you 'may' be seen as having nothing to do with Commodore in your eyes, but I see him differently. To me, he has done AS MUCH for the Commodore and Amiga brands as has Hyperion et al (and I've been following the computers market for years).
I ask you to just try to put yourself into his shoes. If YOU were Barry today and running Commodore today, what can you possibly do to revive the brand? Given the fact that there is FAR MORE competition today than there ever has been, the tech and software for the original Amiga is outdated and most software today is practically designed and based for x86 PC including Apple? In business terms, if you're not in this market or supporting this market you are finished.
But if you create a system and brand with an OS that is designed not just for gaming/retro gaming but made for programming in general; not just for simple videos but ideal for multimedia, graphics and broadcast use; not just for digital photography/3D but ready for high-level power image processing, rendering and next-gen softwares and OSes - then you have an Amiga - which was basically the 'Lamborghini of computers' in its time. And this is what recreating an Amiga on an x86 platform is all about....
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The truth is the Commodore of today is 'but a fragment' of its past.
No, it's not, it has absolutely nothing to do with the past at all.
Starting from scratch with an x86 basis today doesn't necessarily mean the end of the Amiga line. If utilised correctly we'll get our 'perfect' system of being able to use both retro and modern software in a great case/setup - because the technology is already there.
Perfect system? We? Speak for yourself. Anyway, 'we' don't need 'Commodore' for that. If I want such a 'perfect' system, then I'll just pop into the peecee shoppe around the corner and get one that costs less and performs better.
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Middleman is a nice user name for this guy, since he is just a shill for a company and its representatives too cowardly to post with their real names.
Grow some balls and own up to your own bull****, you cowards.
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Middleman is a nice user name for this guy, since he is just a shill for a company and its representatives too cowardly to post with their real names.
Grow some balls and own up to your own bull****, you cowards.
Actually if you have been reading the CUSA threads at all I do have a name you know.... > http://www.commodore-amiga.org/en/forum/2-welcome-mat/2456-re-introduce-yourself#2456
And no, I am not their 'shill'. I just happen to be a customer who has been happy with their service and support for the community.
And to answer your question, no the Middleman name has got NOTHING to do with CUSA. I am not affiliated with them at all in any shape or form...I am simply a customer, and the Middleman name is actually something I've been using personally for a long time WAY BEFORE I was even on C-A.org....
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Commodorejohn, can I ask you to please refrain from such language? Because there's really no need to be so rude mate.
Sorry. Would "seen as many callers as a bargain-priced lady of the evening" be better? 'Cause I'm sticking by the essential point.
The truth is the Commodore of today is 'but a fragment' of its past.
It isn't anything. The Commodore of the 1980s no longer exists. CUSA has rented the name - that's all. They don't have technical know-how, they don't have vision, they don't have anything.
But saying that, building systems from an x86 architecture isn't a bad way to start. You could call it 'building clone computers like everyone else' - but I call it 'moving with the times'.
Call it whatever you want, I care about the end result, and the end result is bog-standard clone hardware in a repro case being marketed as the True Heir to the Throne of something completely different.
Starting from scratch with an x86 basis today doesn't necessarily mean the end of the Amiga line. If utilised correctly we'll get our 'perfect' system of being able to use both retro and modern software in a great case/setup - because the technology is already there.
No it isn't. There's no technology in a C64x but what there is in any other PC. And don't say "but, emulators!" I'm not interested in PC clones running emulators, I already have one.
And unlike the old Amiga system of the past we'll have a system that is constantly upgradable and future-proofed.
There's nothing preventing a non-PC system from being upgradable. Look at how far the original Amigas have come, all thanks to a really solid expansion bus.
All that's needed is the casing, the updated OS, and relevant parts. If such parts are exclusive to CUSA, the systems they produce could still be 'just as unique' as the old Amiga.
But they aren't. You can theorize all you like, but in the end there's nothing unique about the C64x - even the case is cloned from another company. The OS is Linux, it's so not-unique that there are hundreds of different variants on the exact same thing. There is nothing unique about it.
One thing I would like to mention is that while you may think 'going the x86 route' is against everything Commodore/Amiga was, please remember that Jay Miner first originally chose the Motorola chip for the Amiga based upon its predicted performance and nothing more. It was chosen because it was the only chip available at its time that could do the things he thought it could do.
Maybe so. I don't really care. I don't want 68k because I think it's more "authentic," I want it because I like the 68k. It's a good architecture, and it deserves more love.
But instead of focusing on just architecture like it has on the past, it should now focus on the OS, systems performance and value and the kinds of things ie. software/apps/hardware it could offer the end user.
Except for the part where that's exactly what hasn't happened at all.
X86 is clearly a winner (after winning the markets all these years with its potential for expandability).
x86 has jack to do with expandability, whatever its other merits. It's a CPU, not an expansion bus.
Yes, Barry to you 'may' be seen as having nothing to do with Commodore in your eyes, but I see him differently.
That's very nice, but what does it have to do with anything? I don't care how you see him - I've seen his actions and his mannerisms, and I conclude thereby that he is a tool with delusions of grandeur. If you want to live in a fairyland where he doesn't insult people who come to him with honest questions and ask people about their sex lives, you go right ahead.
I ask you to just try to put yourself into his shoes. If YOU were Barry today and running Commodore today, what can you possibly do to revive the brand?
Anything but what he has. He's got money, he could finance the NatAmi project. It'd sell better than the C64x has, I promise you that.
Given the fact that there is FAR MORE competition today than there ever has been, the tech and software for the original Amiga is outdated and most software today is practically designed and based for x86 PC including Apple? In business terms, if you're not in this market or supporting this market you are finished.
Quite the opposite: given that there is far more competition today than there has ever been, the thing to do is enter a completely different market so you don't have to deal with it. If CUSA had supported the community and put weight behind projects the community actually wanted from the start, they would have a unique project that people would want and nobody else would be providing, a.k.a. a captive market.
But if you create a system and brand with an OS that is designed not just for gaming/retro gaming but made for programming in general; not just for simple videos but ideal for multimedia, graphics and broadcast use; not just for digital photography/3D but ready for high-level power image processing, rendering and next-gen softwares and OSes
Linux isn't designed for any of those things, except programming. It has them, but not with the same selection as Windows, and generally not as easy to use, either. They picked Linux because it's free, not because it's some mythic multimedia OS.
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Yes, Barry to you 'may' be seen as having nothing to do with Commodore in your eyes, but I see him differently.
Asking for the money upfront and delivering the technology later (or give a refund) is a classic Commodore move (see the "challenge" thread). I think Barry has learned a lot from studying Tramiel. :)
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Middleman is a nice user name for this guy, since he is just a shill for a company and its representatives too cowardly to post with their real names.
That's not a very nice thing to say about Middleman, he doesn't deserve your venom. There are exactly three C=USA representatives, only two of those post on AO, namely Leo and Barry (Digitex). The third I've only seen on C=USA facebook and CA.org, Mr. Hawk.
Grow some balls and own up to your own bull****, you cowards.
Such rage over an announcement on another web site? Unbelievable!
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Asking for the money upfront and delivering the technology later (or give a refund) is a classic Commodore move (see the "challenge" thread). I think Barry has learned a lot from studying Tramiel. :)
What you didn't include was the fact that the money is to be kept by a third person escrow account. C=USA doesn't see a penny until the units are shipped to 500 customers. I'd say that is a huge difference since C=USA is on the financial line if things do not go well in development and it winds up costing more.
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Sorry. Would "seen as many callers as a bargain-priced lady of the evening" be better? 'Cause I'm sticking by the essential point.
It isn't anything. The Commodore of the 1980s no longer exists. CUSA has rented the name - that's all. They don't have technical know-how, they don't have vision, they don't have anything.
==Err….isn't that the whole point of starting a new Commodore from the ground up? We know they don't have anything to work with and we (certainly I) want to work with them to get them back onto their footing, so later on they can bring back those skills that were lost. This is why (and I mean it) it would be a great help (and go a long way) if everyone would calm down a little here and chip in to help CUSA in some way. Working towards a unified (and finalized) platform for Amiga is a great way to start. And personally I don't mind if it is x86, ARM or PowerPC.
Call it whatever you want, I care about the end result, and the end result is bog-standard clone hardware in a repro case being marketed as the True Heir to the Throne of something completely different.
==Well again I see it differently. I see the new Amigas as having two strands - one Classic (based on proper legacy Amiga specs ie. Natami/Freescale Qoriq) and one based on Intel, but powerful setups (Nvidia Tesla etc.). All are performance based setups, like what IBM has done with their blade servers, based on two separate platforms.
No it isn't. There's no technology in a C64x but what there is in any other PC. And don't say "but, emulators!" I'm not interested in PC clones running emulators, I already have one.
There's nothing preventing a non-PC system from being upgradable. Look at how far the original Amigas have come, all thanks to a really solid expansion bus.
==I guess……but it doesn't stop folks upgrading from readily available PC parts. But Commodore did have good engineers.
But they aren't. You can theorize all you like, but in the end there's nothing unique about the C64x - even the case is cloned from another company. The OS is Linux, it's so not-unique that there are hundreds of different variants on the exact same thing. There is nothing unique about it.
==The C64 is alright to be done this way. Everybody knows it's a PC. There is nothing really special. But with the addition of Commodore OS and the case it has made it something different. Some people (like myself) like what it is....
Maybe so. I don't really care. I don't want 68k because I think it's more "authentic," I want it because I like the 68k. It's a good architecture, and it deserves more love.
==Well I never said the 68k wasn't good - it's amazing it lasted so long and is still chugging along as we speak today. It's just that other systems, softwares and technologies has since passed it by. And if you want to play the latest softwares you just can't use it any longer....that's the reality. But maybe going onto the Qoriq might change all that...
Except for the part where that's exactly what hasn't happened at all.
==Well what do you expect for a system that has been out of commission for so long (and thus lost its majority support base)?
x86 has jack to do with expandability, whatever its other merits. It's a CPU, not an expansion bus.
==Well call it whatever you will, but it has survived the onslaught of various 'platforms' over the years and emerged the victor (sad to say)....
That's very nice, but what does it have to do with anything? I don't care how you see him - I've seen his actions and his mannerisms, and I conclude thereby that he is a tool with delusions of grandeur. If you want to live in a fairyland where he doesn't insult people who come to him with honest questions and ask people about their sex lives, you go right ahead.
== To be honest there is nothing wrong with 'grandeur'. It was the wacky grandeur ideas of Steve Jobs for example that got Apple to where it is today. As for rudeness, well I've come across people far more 'ruder' if you will in life. But on accusations that Barry was being 'rude' maybe were understandable. In my understanding Barry will only say something 'rude' if you begin to pick or attack at him personally, that and with some form of verbal abuse. But I guess such things applies to anyone here and not just Barry. So there are no problems with Barry in general as far as I know. The only thing I do know however, is he's just someone not very good with PR.
Anything but what he has. He's got money, he could finance the NatAmi project. It'd sell better than the C64x has, I promise you that.
==Well believe it or not I have asked him about the Natami and at the time he wasn't so concerned.
But the good thing about Barry is that he does and can change his mind about things when enough people say the same thing and convince him it is a worthwhile pursuit. You just have to be realistic with Barry, that's what I've found. So you never know….
Quite the opposite: given that there is far more competition today than there has ever been, the thing to do is enter a completely different market so you don't have to deal with it. If CUSA had supported the community and put weight behind projects the community actually wanted from the start, they would have a unique project that people would want and nobody else would be providing, a.k.a. a captive market.
==Well I'm not against such an idea...
Maybe the problem is some of us keep relegating the 'new Commodores' as being machines below Amiga performance. Perhaps we should let Commodore itself be a 'PC performance brand' and allow the Amiga brand to flourish itself as a PowerPC based brand. Maybe that is the answer?
But certainly, I wouldn't mind seeing a new Amiga maybe based on the Freescale Qoriq T5 running AmigaOS. That would be great!
Linux isn't designed for any of those things, except programming. It has them, but not with the same selection as Windows, and generally not as easy to use, either. They picked Linux because it's free, not because it's some mythic multimedia OS.
==Well things can be adapted. Perhaps the new Amiga could have dual-boot AmigaOS and CommodoreOS (based on PenguinPPC) as standard. That would help create a new niche....
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Wow a $400 for a cool Microbee. Good on 'em..