Amiga.org
The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Alternative Operating Systems => Topic started by: magnetic on May 29, 2012, 07:54:59 AM
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Well its hard to believe. After all the years of getting friends and family using Firefox, Opera, Chrome, anything other than IE for a browser... I like IE9.
Its fast, lots of nice touches, both graphical and practical. I like the controls on the url bar, the color coding of tabs and pages. The built in "security" and perfect integration with Windows 7 (my laptop is a dell dual core 2ghz w/ Win 7 and another partition for OSX)
I have latest FF, Chrome and IE and now i'm using IE all the time. Amazing...
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Too bad you're missing out on a faster JavaScript engine, many CSS3 features, plugins, decent web inspectors, decent JavaScript debuggers and several other features.
For a lesser experience, there's no better line of browsers than Internet Explorer. Even 10 falls short, although it's closer to what FF, Safari and Chrome released a few months ago. Too bad its not available yet
Well its hard to believe. After all the years of getting friends and family using Firefox, Opera, Chrome, anything other than IE for a browser... I like IE9.
Its fast, lots of nice touches, both graphical and practical. I like the controls on the url bar, the color coding of tabs and pages. The built in "security" and perfect integration with Windows 7 (my laptop is a dell dual core 2ghz w/ Win 7 and another partition for OSX)
I have latest FF, Chrome and IE and now i'm using IE all the time. Amazing...
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Well it would be cool if you instead of mocking me actually told me how to enable these features in FF or whatever browser you are speaking of ...
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Sorry. My angst is with IE, not you.
Firefox has hundreds of plugins available in the Add-Ons section which can be accessed in the options. Chrome has a whole store full of add-ons which appears whenever you create a new tab. Safari and Chrome share the same roots but has less of a "store" available for features.
Chrome and Safari can inspect any element in the page live, by right-clicking and selecting inspect element. Safari will likely need you to go into the options and click on enable web developer stuff under advanced first. Firefox uses a great plugin called Firebug to do the same (and arguably more). IE9 actually has this feature to some degree too but it is incredibly slow and very limited.
The JS engine and CSS enhancements will just work. Most new sites degrade the experiences for IE. Simply using a better browser will enable you to see the features that other sites want to show you.
IE is fast in someways and almost decent for a browser if all you need is to get the info from the site. But it really is the lesser of the browsers and Microsofts release strategy is the reason it will stay that way for the foreseeable future.
Well it would be cool if you instead of mocking me actually told me how to enable these features in FF or whatever browser you are speaking of ...
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BANG!
(Well, you asked for it.)
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Well its hard to believe. After all the years of getting friends and family using Firefox, Opera, Chrome, anything other than IE for a browser... I like IE9.
Its fast, lots of nice touches, both graphical and practical. I like the controls on the url bar, the color coding of tabs and pages. The built in "security" and perfect integration with Windows 7 (my laptop is a dell dual core 2ghz w/ Win 7 and another partition for OSX)
I have latest FF, Chrome and IE and now i'm using IE all the time. Amazing...
:whack:
:quickdraw:
:uzi: :python:
So. There!
That browser alone are responsible for at least 50% of all world misery (yes it even tops Greece, who only comes in on 2nd place), it's bad, it's bloated, it can't do CSS3 properly, and it's generally evil. It must die, dammit!
:rant:
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Too bad Firefox crashes so often I had to stop using it.
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:whack:
:quickdraw:
:uzi: :python:
So. There!
That browser alone are responsible for at least 50% of all world misery (yes it even tops Greece, who only comes in on 2nd place), it's bad, it's bloated, it can't do CSS3 properly, and it's generally evil. It must die, dammit!
:rant:
I'm 100% in agreement with TMHG, a first time for everything!
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How about Lynx text based browse.. Who needs GFX thats just like junk on the net :)
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I agree with itix...FF does seem crashy and a bit slow.
I use Chrome BUT some things don't work on it and it does crash quite often.
Remember the Moog Synthesizer doodle? Didn't work on Google Chrome :)
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Too bad Firefox crashes so often I had to stop using it.
Firefox sucks badly! Slow, bulky and crash prone. Of course, everything feels slow and bulky compared to the webkit browsers, especially Chrome (and Chromium a bit less so).
I guess there is a reason to the web browser trends (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=60443) I highlighted here a few months back; and if you look at the same sources of info today, you will see that since I made that post:
http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php?year=2012&month=4
...that Chrome *alone* has beaten Firefox by a big margin (25.9% vs. 24.1%)
...that Webkit (Chrome + Safari) even beats IE by a big margin (32.4% vs. 28.9%)
http://gs.statcounter.com/
...that Chrome *easily* beats Firefox by a huge margin (31.23% vs. 24.87%)
...that Webkit (Chrome + Safari) beats IE by a huge margin as well (38.36% vs. 34.07%)
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp (stats from web-dev people)
...that Chrome alone *easily* beats everything else (Chrome: 38.3%, Firefox 35.8%, IE 18.3%), and Webkit truly dominates (42.8%).
So the trends I predicted in January (above) definitely came true, Webkit is da sh!t, it's what most people is using, and more and more are constantly adds themselves to this group.
I don't know which of Firefox or IE9 I hate the most, they both feels completely bulky, slow, and gives a very poor browser experience compared to webkit browsers.
Which of course brings me to this:
http://html5test.com/results/desktop.html
Chrome 18: 400 points, 13 bonus
Firefox 12: 345 points, 9 bonus
IE 9: 138 points, 5 bonus
Webkit rules, and so does Odyssey for MorphOS! :drink:
:)
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Remember the Moog Synthesizer doodle? Didn't work on Google Chrome :)
What, this?
http://www.google.com/doodles/robert-moogs-78th-birthday
Worked perfectly in all Chrome versions I have tried...
:confused:
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I agree with itix...FF does seem crashy and a bit slow.
I use Chrome BUT some things don't work on it and it does crash quite often.
Remember the Moog Synthesizer doodle? Didn't work on Google Chrome :)
It works here. In fact Chrome never crashed here. I have only used version 17 here since I am fairly new Chrome user.
IE is also very stable but too slow (using version 8).
@takemehomegrandma
At least IE is not freezing on every third site I am browsing on... but Chrome performance is superior to IE and IE development cycle is slow.
Feels like it is 90s again when there were several browsers competing on Amiga.
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Too bad Firefox crashes so often I had to stop using it.
Yeah, that's beginning to piss me off too.
Why do they insist I update if the new software is less reliable then what it replaces?
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Well that doodle didn't work the very day they released on the google.co.uk page, and not just for me :)
Not sure if it's been fixed now, but overall Chrome is still my favourite, the problems I have with it are the crashes on some websites and when it tries to stream stuff (bbc.co.uk/iplayer for example) IE does a better job at that, at least for me. :)
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Yeah, that's beginning to piss me off too.
Why do they insist I update if the new software is less reliable then what it replaces?
Simple solution, you *don't* do that, you simply replaces it with Chrome and feel the releif (or run Odyssey on MorphOS of course :)).
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Been using Opera for years now. IE is alien to me and just seems... not very good, and featureless for what I want. Firefox seems unreliable these days. Chrome seems good but again seems to lack what I want.
Opera has several features I'm used to - the built in mail client, the gestures, the speed... it's all what I'm used to, even though I use FF occasionally when I have to. Of course there are probably FF plug-ins that mimic Opera features, but FF crashes enough anyway....
Wish there was Opera for the miggy, that's all.
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My thoughtsd on this. I have to use IE9 to remote into work as none of the other browsers work correctly with our system.
However I used chrome for ages, but it is very crash happy.
Used to use firefox back in the day, but it has become very sloe.
I quite like, ***gasp**** ****shock***** Safari
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the problems I have with it are the crashes on some websites and when it tries to stream stuff (bbc.co.uk/iplayer for example)
That site works like a charm here on Chrome 19.
I can't recall I have ever experienced a Chrome crash during the many years I have been using it (and I have really been using it *a lot*), but you seem have crashes all the time, so I'd say there might be some other problem with your system configuration...
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That site works like a charm here on Chrome 19.
I can't recall I have ever experienced a Chrome crash during the many years I have been using it (and I have really been using it *a lot*), but you seem have crashes all the time, so I'd say there might be some other problem with your system configuration...
LOL! :)
I just happen to have crashes with Chrome which I don't experience with IE on some sites.
And streaming seems better on IE that's all. :)
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LOL! :)
I just happen to have crashes with Chrome which I don't experience with IE on some sites.
And streaming seems better on IE that's all. :)
Just saying that both examples you put forward works like a charm in Chrome, no crashes, no glitches, nothing such, and if you are experience as many problems with Chrome as you say you do, then there might be something else causing it, that's all. Could be a lot of things ranging from weird SW Firewalls or anti spyware SW you hare running, misconfiguration of privileges or some other misconfiguration somewhere else in your system, whatever. Release versions of Chrome is very stable, top notch in all aspects, and if you can't even play that simple radio stream or that Moog doodle (they *are both* working in Chrome), then you *do* have a problem, and the way I see it, it's not a problem directly tied to Chrome...
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Simple solution, you *don't* do that, you simply replaces it with Chrome and feel the releif (or run Odyssey on MorphOS of course :)).
Sure feel the "relief" of Google increasing their file on you. At least FF and IE dont record your information.
Sure Chrome is fast as hell and nice looking but not worth it to give up your liberty to use it!
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Sure feel the "relief" of Google increasing their file on you. At least FF and IE dont record your information.
Sure Chrome is fast as hell and nice looking but not worth it to give up your liberty to use it!
SRWare Iron. It's Chrome without all the crap.
http://www.srware.net/en/software_srware_iron.php
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Just saying that both examples you put forward works like a charm in Chrome, no crashes, no glitches, nothing such, and if you are experience as many problems with Chrome as you say you do, then there might be something else causing it, that's all. Could be a lot of things ranging from weird SW Firewalls or anti spyware SW you hare running, misconfiguration of privileges or some other misconfiguration somewhere else in your system, whatever. Release versions of Chrome is very stable, top notch in all aspects, and if you can't even play that simple radio stream or that Moog doodle (they *are both* working in Chrome), then you *do* have a problem, and the way I see it, it's not a problem directly tied to Chrome...
What I am saying is that through the years I have noticed that Chrome sucks at some things and it does other things better than other browsers. This is not based on one day observation. And the doodle didn't work in Chrome on the very first day but it started working a few hours later.
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Sure feel the "relief" of Google increasing their file on you. At least FF and IE dont record your information.
Sure Chrome is fast as hell and nice looking but not worth it to give up your liberty to use it!
Use Chromium if you are that paranoid; that one has those accelerators (that I personally happens to like, as they learn my preferences and presents (and foresee) info according to this) removed AFAIK (or maybe I'm wrong in that). It's not like your surfing anonymously anyway (unless you take active steps to do so), President Bush Jr's legacy has brought us the perfect Orwellian society, not only in the US; they have enforced many kinds of repulsove legislation to all western countries, that in practice puts a wire tap on *all* Interenet (and telecommunication) traffic, *everywhere*, treating *everyone* as a potential terrorist. *That's* the big integrity problem with the Internet today, not that google tries to foresee and present me the info I want in a convenient way, by learning about my preferences, I'd call that a *service*. Google doesn't really know who I really am, as a real person, but the government(s) do (or could learn it quite quickly by some rudimentary database querys).
That's the way I see it anyway. But of course, feel free to use Microsofts products, if you really trust they are some angels in this context, and differs that much from Google. I think they are not, though. They are taking their "bing"-thing to a whole new level now, and walks in Google's footsteps in more than one way.
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@ TheDaddy
OK, you have problems with Chrome, even with simple sites/things as streaming audio, and have had it for a long time obviously, while I have *never* had a single problem like that (been using Chrome for many, many years), rather the opposite actually, it just works, with everything, everywhere, faster than anything else. If you think your problems and inabilities (like streaming audio from that BBC site, for example, which simply *works*) lies in the Chrome software and not in your own, local system configuration, then I digress...
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@ TheDaddy
OK, you have problems with Chrome, even with simple sites/things as streaming audio, and have had it for a long time obviously, while I have *never* had a single problem like that (been using Chrome for many, many years), rather the opposite actually, it just works, with everything, everywhere, faster than anything else. If you think your problems and inabilities (like streaming audio from that BBC site, for example, which simply *works*) lies in the Chrome software and not in your own, local system configuration, then I digress...
Tried Chrome for a while on this laptop XP, ran fine most of the time but had strange momentary freezes which turned me off. IE8 on the otherhand has been very reliable. Gave up on firefox years ago.
On Windows 7 IE9 is fast(with the accelerators) and reliable and easy to use. Though I still prefer favorites on the LHS.
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:whack:
:quickdraw:
:uzi: :python:
So. There!
That browser alone are responsible for at least 50% of all world misery (yes it even tops Greece, who only comes in on 2nd place), it's bad, it's bloated, it can't do CSS3 properly, and it's generally evil. It must die, dammit!
:rant:
In a way I can totally understand your opinion, your personality is to find faults, compare the thing that has a fault and in public informing, sorry, screaming out to everyone how great you are because you know that thing is crap and you wont use it.
You say it is bad. IE6 was bad, IE7 is bad also, IE8 is maybe bad also but IE 9 is not bad. It loads fast, is nicely integrated in the best multitasking operating system in the world: Win 7.
You say it is bloated? Are you serious?! LOL someone bought the FF hype.
It is evil?! LOL, spinning the age old myth that MS is evil. I would bet IE is less evil than MorphOS is. At least there is not much IE fanboys needing to wave their e-penos in public seeking confirmation.
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@ TheDaddy
OK, you have problems with Chrome, even with simple sites/things as streaming audio, and have had it for a long time obviously, while I have *never* had a single problem like that (been using Chrome for many, many years), rather the opposite actually, it just works, with everything, everywhere, faster than anything else. If you think your problems and inabilities (like streaming audio from that BBC site, for example, which simply *works*) lies in the Chrome software and not in your own, local system configuration, then I digress...
As Gertsy says, there are some people who have problems with Google Chrome. Simple as that. Now IF it is my configuration or not that is not the point, I am not going to start troubleshooting everything just to make Chrome work properly, I just use IE9 and be done with it. For example I don't have crashes on any site with IE but I do with chrome, it comes up with "Ooops Chrome just crashed".
But Chrome is still my main browser because it's quick.
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I also turned off Chrome when I found out Google basically pay hackers to tell them of any security issues/holes in Chrome. The proviso; You don't get paid if you tell anyone else. Fine product, shiftier and shiftier company.
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But I thought their motto was "Do No Evil"... :D
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I also turned off Chrome when I found out Google basically pay hackers to tell them of any security issues/holes in Chrome. The proviso; You don't get paid if you tell anyone else. Fine product, shiftier and shiftier company.
This is common, and I assume you are referring to events like Pwn2Own? Pwn2Own is multi platform, multi browser, multi device.
As for Google paying hackers to come forward with potential security issues, I see that as a great motivator. Why would anyone BUT Google offer bounties to hackers to improve GOOGLE products? Google does this not only with Chrome, but all Google services/sites. If you find bugs in GMail or any of the apps, you can also be eligible for a bounty. Why wouldn't they dangle a financial carrot in front of hackers with the money they have at hand? It gives them a more solid product offering in the end.
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9226895/Google_Raises_Bug_Bounties_to_20_000
Sure beats Microsoft and Apple outright ignoring reported issues, which there are many cases of.
Firefox for the most part has been entirely unusable due to the memory issues for a very long time, imho. I've been using Chrome solely on this new PC I built here about 5-6 months ago and it's not crashed a single time yet.
IE 9 is a big step up from previous versions, but I still see no valid reason to use it unless corporate situations require it.
Opera is an enigmatic beast, just like it always was. Rumors are now that Facebook may be interested in buying Opera out, likely for the Opera Mini mobile caching technology (which is wholly insecure).
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I also turned off Chrome when I found out Google basically pay hackers to tell them of any security issues/holes in Chrome. The proviso; You don't get paid if you tell anyone else. Fine product, shiftier and shiftier company.
So you have a bunch of people who have made a hobby out of finding security holes in things (which in itself isn't illegal in any way), and instead of pretending that the flaws don't exist you decide to harness this fact in the most productive way possible while making sure the whole world doesn't pick up on it before it is fixed. SHIFTY INDEED.
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FF all the way here & very happy
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I tried out IE9.
Probably the fastest browser on the market right now.
At the time I tried it there was no Ad-Block plugin other than a broken one.
If they get a decent Ad-Blocker I will switch. Until then I will use Chrome & Opera.
Could not believe it myself, IE9 is actually a decent browser.
My head exploded.
Been a headless corpse since that day.
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It really is interesting that you guys are experiencing so many crashes. I'd remove any existing profiles and preferences (different steps for different platforms) and try again.
I use all browsers daily (UX engineer) on a variety of machines; both Mac and PC. I rarely ever see Chrome crash and occasionally see FF crash but most likely due to plugins I'm experimenting with.
I agree with itix...FF does seem crashy and a bit slow.
I use Chrome BUT some things don't work on it and it does crash quite often.
Remember the Moog Synthesizer doodle? Didn't work on Google Chrome :)
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You have to understand that anybody who has to write web pages for a living hates IE. In the last 10 years, hundreds of thousands of dollars (if not, literally, millions) have been spent on extra work hours trying to make special code just for IE.
Microsoft's inability to adapt to the near-monthly release cycles of Chrome, and Firefox have severely crippled IE from catching up or ever again becoming a contender. Each new IE release signifies another several years of having to spend extra time and effort just to have an acceptable experience, let alone one with parity with other browsers. It's truly a horrible experience all around for those who use it.
I still think the best two virii in the world that could be written are: 1. something that causes Chrome or Firefox to launch whenever IE is double clicked and/or 2. a virus that forces all Windows machines to upgrade to the latest version of IE.
The later bit there points at another huge issue with Windows and IE altogether. Too many damn people who still use the browsers, won't upgrade to the latest versions. So we are stuck supporting the older versions of IE which are significantly worse than the latest versions and require equally significant hacks just to show the sites we're building on them.
So, this is why IE sucks. It's not that you can't view GMail or your favorite adult websites on them. It's not even that they're slow, in general. It's mostly that they hinder us from providing you awesome new web pages because of their dated glacially moving technology stacks coupled with the fact that it comes with every Windows PC and non-computer literate people don't know how to get or use anything else.
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You have to understand that anybody who has to write web pages for a living hates IE. In the last 10 years, hundreds of thousands of dollars (if not, literally, millions) have been spent on extra work hours trying to make special code just for IE.
As one of those people you describe I agree 110%. If you take a college/uni course these days you are quickly told that IE is satan. And yes, the computer illiterate either won't update or don't know how to. It really is a sad state of affairs. IE6 in particular has been a bone of contention for many in the industry for far too long, as the years go by people are naturally dropping it, but many workplaces still use it along with XP. IE7 and IE8 both suck too with huge admissions and stuff that you have to explicit about. Although IE9 seems to have finally 'got there' I still won't use it as a personal browser.
http://www.ie6countdown.com/
Personally, I am also looking forward to the day that 'everyone' is using a modern HTML5 browser so I don't have to keep writing code for all the time - all the 'new' HTML5 form property will make life for the web designer so much easier as the burden shifts to the browser itself.
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In a way I can totally understand your opinion, your personality is to find faults, compare the thing that has a fault and in public informing, sorry, screaming out to everyone how great you are because you know that thing is crap and you wont use it.
You say it is bad. IE6 was bad, IE7 is bad also, IE8 is maybe bad also but IE 9 is not bad. It loads fast, is nicely integrated in the best multitasking operating system in the world: Win 7.
You say it is bloated? Are you serious?! LOL someone bought the FF hype.
It is evil?! LOL, spinning the age old myth that MS is evil. I would bet IE is less evil than MorphOS is. At least there is not much IE fanboys needing to wave their e-penos in public seeking confirmation.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-VbAdeiofd2k/T6fxaOccYVI/AAAAAAAAA4U/Gxdcuf-Jypw/s1600/falling-down_1.jpg)
:lol:
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As one of those people you describe I agree 110%. If you take a college/uni course these days you are quickly told that IE is satan. And yes, the computer illiterate either won't update or don't know how to. It really is a sad state of affairs. IE6 in particular has been a bone of contention for many in the industry for far too long, as the years go by people are naturally dropping it, but many workplaces still use it along with XP. IE7 and IE8 both suck too with huge admissions and stuff that you have to explicit about. Although IE9 seems to have finally 'got there' I still won't use it as a personal browser.
http://www.ie6countdown.com/
Personally, I am also looking forward to the day that 'everyone' is using a modern HTML5 browser so I don't have to keep writing code for all the time - all the 'new' HTML5 form property will make life for the web designer so much easier as the burden shifts to the browser itself.
Yes I maintain a couple of websites and wish that I could use HTML5 to code it. Unfortunately it's too early at this point. Not just because of IE6 but because people are still going to be accessing sites from mobile platforms and it will take a while to have 100% of users using 100% HTML5 compatible browsers.
I just use CSS and html. I don't worry about coding special for IE6 as my site renders perfectly in all browsers I've tested including IE6.
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Hi,
[Webkit rules, and so does Odyssey for MorphOS! ]
Well everybody has an opinion, but opinions are like Aholes, but this one really stinks
Just like you all hate Amiga Emulators, I really hate Amiga Emulators when run on a slow, old, obsolete PPC controlled computer.
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There are things that can be done to start making your transition to HTML5. For personal sites, staying away from the glitzy features of HTML5 is likely fine. For larger professional sites, we don't have that luxury. We need to innovate or feel stale, but we need to support legacy browsers to some degree.
There are tons of tricks and tips I could offer if any of you have questions on how to solve individual issues, but the concept of modern web dev is innovate, and degrade to some usable (but not desirable) subset for lesser browsers (which in almost all cases are IE).
Most smart phones (iOS and Android derivatives) support enough HTML5 to make a transition. Even, ack, IE9 supports enough to make a transition but you need to handle IE6, 7 and 8 issues for each special feature you wish to deal with.
Personal sites have the power to ask the user to upgrade. For all of you having crashes with your browsers it may be time for some clean up or even (gasp) a reinstall if you're using Microsoft products. Windows 7 is the best of all Windows versions to date, but XP could use a reinstall every year or so to stay fresh, clean, fast and stable (depending on how much/often you install software).
Yes I maintain a couple of websites and wish that I could use HTML5 to code it. Unfortunately it's too early at this point. Not just because of IE6 but because people are still going to be accessing sites from mobile platforms and it will take a while to have 100% of users using 100% HTML5 compatible browsers.
I just use CSS and html. I don't worry about coding special for IE6 as my site renders perfectly in all browsers I've tested including IE6.
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I stick with Firefox 1.5 and K-Meleon 1.5.4 - they do everything I need, and they're lighter than every alternative I've tried. (Haven't tried Chrome, because I don't trust Google as far as I could kick 'em.)
HTML5 is just wrong-headed. Don't get me wrong, HTML could use a revamp, but putting direct rendering control in the hands of Javascript programmers is like giving a chimpanzee a machine gun. Web designers are bad about (poorly) reinventing basic browser functionality now; by the time this stuff is commonplace, your whole processor load will be consumed by someone's shoddy Javascript-and-canvas implementation of a window manager, dropdown menus, and desktop environment.
(And, uh, wasn't it just ten short years ago that the same group of people now advocating for HTML5 were screaming at people to use CSS because "HTML is supposed to specify the content, not the layout!"?)
It's fun to watch browsers fumblingly recapitulate the history of window management. Someday we'll have xmonad as a Firefox extension.
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I have to cringe a little bit when reading this. Google is fine; there are much worse companies to worry about out there (Facebook for one). I've been using Google products for quite a while and I haven't had my identity stolen nor have advertisers shown up at my door, nor have I had my online banking info stolen or anything else related to privacy. I *am* biased as I used to work for Google in the past so take it however you like, but even after leaving them I'd still trust them with quite a bit.
As for HTML5, your opinion sounds very much like what I might have said before I delved deeper into the world of being an UI Engineer. When I was a server-side engineer I felt very much the same way. Canvas apps, even in most web pages, are going to be very specific to games and other types of full screen apps. CSS still reigns supreme and most of the animations in HTML5 are delegated to the browser and not implemented in JS.
Also I would give modern day JavaScript developers more credit than you do. There are still some bad devs out there for sure, but there are some very talented ones too. And the number of talented JS devs is increasing every day due specifically to the fact JavaScript is growing in power and gaining the attention of others.
I stick with Firefox 1.5 and K-Meleon 1.5.4 - they do everything I need, and they're lighter than every alternative I've tried. (Haven't tried Chrome, because I don't trust Google as far as I could kick 'em.)
HTML5 is just wrong-headed. Don't get me wrong, HTML could use a revamp, but putting direct rendering control in the hands of Javascript programmers is like giving a chimpanzee a machine gun. Web designers are bad about (poorly) reinventing basic browser functionality now; by the time this stuff is commonplace, your whole processor load will be consumed by someone's shoddy Javascript-and-canvas implementation of a window manager, dropdown menus, and desktop environment.
(And, uh, wasn't it just ten short years ago that the same group of people now advocating for HTML5 were screaming at people to use CSS because "HTML is supposed to specify the content, not the layout!"?)
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Well its hard to believe. After all the years of getting friends and family using Firefox, Opera, Chrome, anything other than IE for a browser... I like IE9.
Its fast, lots of nice touches, both graphical and practical. I like the controls on the url bar, the color coding of tabs and pages. The built in "security" and perfect integration with Windows 7 (my laptop is a dell dual core 2ghz w/ Win 7 and another partition for OSX)
I have latest FF, Chrome and IE and now i'm using IE all the time. Amazing...
All I hear is bloatware, bloatware and more bloatware.
Why would your browser need to look particularly sleek?
I never quite understood all that hype about good looking browser frontends, bloated websites and messy addons.
Perhaps it's because I'm a code monkey. Personally, I couldn't care less what webpages look like.
In fact, I wish they were less glossy since my bandwidth is currently capped at 385KBps (that's right. Less than an MBit)
Too bad Firefox crashes so often I had to stop using it.
Approximately 90% of Firefox' crashes indicate a problem with the plugin container. Something that shouldn't be too hard to fix.
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I have to cringe a little bit when reading this. Google is fine; there are much worse companies to worry about out there (Facebook for one). I've been using Google products for quite a while and I haven't had my identity stolen nor have advertisers shown up at my door, nor have I had my online banking info stolen or anything else related to privacy. I *am* biased as I used to work for Google in the past so take it however you like, but even after leaving them I'd still trust them with quite a bit.
Yes, Facebook is more evil - which is why I don't use it and never have. Doesn't change the fact that Google has (among other things) tried to strongarm GMail users into connecting their accounts to Google Buzz, spied on public wi-fi users, and played along with Chinese government censorship in order to get those few extra dollars in the bank. The worst company in existence? Maybe not. But not exactly an impressive record.
Canvas apps, even in most web pages, are going to be very specific to games and other types of full screen apps.
And Flash is going to be specific to games and multimedia, and will never be used to replace actual site functionality or make ads that talk to you. OH WAIT.
Also I would give modern day JavaScript developers more credit than you do. There are still some bad devs out there for sure, but there are some very talented ones too. And the number of talented JS devs is increasing every day due specifically to the fact JavaScript is growing in power and gaining the attention of others.
There may very well be some talented Javascript developers out there, but that doesn't change the fact that once you give a bad developer free reign, as HTML5 does, you're basically sunk. The site produced will be bad, and it doesn't matter how many good developers there are out there who could do it better, because you'd have to convince the site owners to hire a better developer and expend the time, money, and effort for a revamp, which they're not going to do.
And the quality of the Javascript is only part of the problem - the other part is that web designers use it in tons of places where it has absolutely no business being. Links are replaced with calls to JS functions which redirect the page, form-submit buttons are replaced with function calls to submit the form, hell, some pages even display page text via Javascript! It's hideous how common this crap is becoming. Giving JS devs more tools is only going to result in more unnecessarily JS-dependent websites.
There's already sites that are completely unreadable with NoScript activated; the more accepted this kind of thing becomes, the fewer sites will remain readable. I'm sorry, it's just really, really not worth the tradeoff.
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IE 9 is not bad. It loads fast, is nicely integrated in the best multitasking operating system in the world: Win 7.
You say it is bloated? Are you serious?! LOL someone bought the FF hype.
It is evil?! LOL, spinning the age old myth that MS is evil. I would bet IE is less evil than MorphOS is.
There are a multitude of things wrong with this post, itself is riddled in fallacy.
Lets compare release cycles shall we?
IE: About 2 to 2 1/2 years
Chrome: one to two months
Firefox: ditto
Then there is your quote "best multitasking operating system in the world: Win 7."
Windows XP was the last (out of 3) versions of Windows I have genuinely paid for. XP is a very good OS, but it is definitely showing age. 7 improved much over Vista, but I have some complaints: Taskbar is ripped off of OS X. "Snapping" and other features are product gimmicks that they over do. Windows has a longer release cycle than either Ubuntu or OS X, even counting service packs and major hotfixes. It is also the only one of the three to have product activation/genuine advantage bull****.
All NT based versions of windows have certain bottlenecks to performance, such as swap based ONLY as a file and no option to have a partition, like UNIX derivatives. Other examples include having the GUI in supervisor mode, NTFS being a wasteful FS (Ext2-4, HFS+, FAT32/EXFAT, HAMMER and ZFS are all excellent choices) the fact that it still uses a COMMAND.COM style shell, caps on TCP connections and the fact that NT is a bloated kernel despite it not being Monolithic (98SE has a vastly superior kernel in many respects and is a good DOS gaming OS).
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President Bush Jr's legacy has brought us the perfect Orwellian society
LMAO you really think that Bush Jr had any say in what policies went on while he was president? I bet you think Kermit the Frog is a real person making descisions? (you must because they are both puppets with hands up their shirts)
The JFK Coup d'état starting the police state and military industrial/corporate apparatus that really controls policy and govenrment.
And now you have people AGREEING TO EULAs for Gmail, yahoo, Facebook, etc etc and WILLINGLY giving up ALL RIGHTS TO PRIVACY. Welcome to Internet 2.0. And Big Brother Loves YOU WINSTON!
The govt alphabet agencies have always spied on us, now they do it with our full consent and permission.. man the drafters of the us constitiion must be weeping.
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We could fight the government, when the corporations and banks were weak.
We could fight the banks and corporations when the government was weak.
Time will tell if we can fight both when they have joined forces.
I stick with Firefox 1.5 and K-Meleon 1.5.4 - they do everything I need, and they're lighter than every alternative I've tried. (Haven't tried Chrome, because I don't trust Google as far as I could kick 'em.)
You're partly on linux right? I reeeally liked Epiphany back in the day, but I don't know how much it's progressed these days
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I can't inspect the source code for IE, I can for Chrome and FF though, for the most part.
Somehow Google always comes out as the Great Satan - not MS though, the company that pretty much put the term "anti trust suit" into modern vocabulary.
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You're partly on linux right? I reeeally liked Epiphany back in the day, but I don't know how much it's progressed these days
Actually no, I've done a number of switchover attempts but I finally gave up after the last one in November. Last I saw of Epiphany, it's pretty alright; it's not a massive memory hog like later versions of Firefox, if nothing else. My problem with it is it's part of the whole GNOME tangle, which means it's going to get "updated" for GNOME 3, if it hasn't already :/
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I can't inspect the source code for IE, I can for Chrome and FF though, for the most part.
Somehow Google always comes out as the Great Satan - not MS though, the company that pretty much put the term "anti trust suit" into modern vocabulary.
People tend to pick the one they like (Microsoftgoogleapplefacebook) and pretend they aren't as ****ty as the rest.
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Somehow Google always comes out as the Great Satan - not MS though, the company that pretty much put the term "anti trust suit" into modern vocabulary.
I think it's because Microsoft has been pretty transparently sinister since about the time they announced Windows just after getting a good look at what the Mac Team was cooking up over at Apple. Google got to be the garage-startup darlings of the early-2000s web-Renaissance before maturing into a solid tech company, so they've always enjoyed good PR; consequently, they feel more insidious in their evil than MS does.
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Seriously, some of you ought to get away from your computers and get a bit of fresh air. The paranoia is scary. If youre so concerned about who and what is evil then the answer seems pretty simple to me...... find a new hobby.
As for the topic, I agree with the general concencous:
FF sucks (has for years and in my opinion was only an option in the IE6 days). It's too bloated, super crash happy, and just "feels" wrong and alien regardless of what system its being used on.
IE Ive been fairly content with since version7. It's nice and stable and does what I need (and quite well). My only issue with it is that rendering can be a little off.
Chrome is also quite nice. Fast, good rendering and a lack of bloat. Perhaps I have different needs of the net, but Ive never found he ability to add shedloads of bloat (plug-ins) a positive (as is often the "defense" of firefox lovers). The 2 major qualms I have with Chrome is that shockwave is pretty crash happy (although thankfully it rarely brings the browser itself down and a refresh will usually fix it), and that there's no zoom function (very handy when running a browser on a 1920x1080 tv when sitting 12 or so feet away).
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The 2 major qualms I have with Chrome is that shockwave is pretty crash happy (although thankfully it rarely brings the browser itself down and a refresh will usually fix it), and that there's no zoom function (very handy when running a browser on a 1920x1080 tv when sitting 12 or so feet away).
You can zoom on Chrome just fine, the only difference is there is no toolbar button for it (extensions will likely add this without adding bloat; btw). Just press Ctrl-+ Ctrl-- or Ctrl-0 (to reset) and things will work great. I think it's control on Windows, I'm using a Mac so it's the Apple key.
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Zoom works just fine on Chrome via the Windows built in zoom function.
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Opera seems best on my 667 Mhz Pentium 3.
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Links. :afro:
When it comes to graphical browsers, I got stuck on Opera quite a while back.
I use all the major browser daily at work, and while there's lots of improvements in IE9, it really doesn't keep up with the others (apart from Safari, but Apple are evil too!).
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I find it ironic that here on an Amiga forum people are complaining about how all the various companies are bad/evil/satanic/whatever, when to me one of the prime benefits of using an Amiga is that you don't have to worry about it.
For me I tend to ignore all the Google/MS/Apple bashing because when it comes down to it, they're all as bad as each other. Give me a good OS with good browsers done by good people, and I'm happy. Let everyone else worry about the big corps, when I'm on the Miggy I don't have to, which is part of why I enjoy using it more than a PC.
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FF sucks (has for years and in my opinion was only an option in the IE6 days). It's too bloated, super crash happy, and just "feels" wrong and alien regardless of what system its being used on.
Here, you tell a bit of truth. For the latest of the official Firefox (not TenFourFox, as I sometimes use) you need at least (bare minimum if running windows 7) a Core Solo 1.5GHz, and thats with Aero Basic, and many effects and hacks applied. I use it on Ubuntu and 7 with a Core 2 Duo and i will say that the windows/linux implementations of Firefox blows IE out of the water in terms of usability and power. I do not use Chrome on either one as I prefer it only on OS X, where its GUI is metallic rather than that awful blue theme on XP and 7, and where it trumps in speed.
So, yes Firefox has ballooned but it is still a very viable option to IE. Lets not forget this all too famous page: http://toastytech.com/evil/
To me IE is the equivalent of MS saying: "May we give thieves your bank details, compromise your browsing experience and... : http://youtu.be/onEfmC6HRF4?t=29s ?"
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I actually like IE9 also. I use both Firefox and IE9. I stopped using IE after 7 until 9 came out then I started to use it again. Firefox has issues also so those that bang IE9 in favor of Firefox I must say that as of now it is more of a preference. If u like IE9, great enjoy using it, same with FF also.
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Opera is faster than Chrome for Flash intensive websites, however as good as Opera is there is some dumb design elements. Right clicking on anything text based which is highlighted allows an instant Google search IN A NEW TAB. For whatever reason Opera chose to open it in the same damned tab. Also you can highlight any text on a page and drag it to a search box in Chrome, back to Win 95 select,copy,paste,click search style thing.
Opera on the other hand has auto page refresh and is lighter in memory usage overall.
However the ideal browser will have the best of Opera and Chrome. The rest are also rans in my opinion. I doubt very much that IE9 is even close to the efficient and fast engine of Chrome. It's like when those prize fools claimed "Windows 7 is as efficient as XP" yeah whatever mate, try playing a DVD full screen with 24fps on a Pentium II 366mhz (even if you have 2gb of RAM)
Microsoft=Microcock.
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Microsoft=Microcock.
Couldn't have spoken the truth any clearer than that....
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Digiman
I was using Chrome daily on this dual core 2ghz laptop. Win 7 ultimate. After google changed their privacy policy I stopped using it. I have to say IE9 is almost as fast and has better features..