[A-EON updates] The "Golden" Child - Nemo revision 2.1

[Kesa]

Wow that was cool!

So how long does it take for the robot to make a single board? :confused:

I don't know why but i can feel the emotion that has gone into the Nemo boards and this wants me wanting to go out and buy one because of this

More than what i can say about the C64X...

How much would these boards cost on their own without everything else included? :confused:

[Kesa]

The X1000 is standard PC components on a PCB inside a *generic PC case* sold at a *ridiculous high price* to brand name followers.

The C64X is standard PC components on a PCB inside a *very cool custom case* sold at *a quarter* of the X1000 price to brand name followers.

(Come to think of it - Having to run OS4 seems to be a suitable punishment for the people actually stupid enough of buying into the first option )

Really? By an X1000 today and sell for a profit in a few years time.

[Kesa]

Well, it was exactly that during longer than a decade, and the fact is that this very CPU was designed for potential use in year 2007 level Apple laptops, so you are wrong. But in a way you are right; the PPC doesn't even qualify to neither "PC" nor "Desktop" anymore, that era ended half a decade ago (today PPC is used for routers, printers, cars, etc). And if this is your criteria for "being Amiga", then there is something fundamentally wrong. I don't say that standard PC components would be bad in any way, rather the opposite actually, it's the only way to go. But don't pretend that the x1000 would be something it isn't; IT IS a motherboard with BOG-STANDARD PC CONTROLLERS, offering very little (anything at all?) over a 2007 level PC (which probably even used the very same controllers). So when some people are claiming that the C64X is "bad" because of it being "just an overpriced PC", but the x1000 isn't, then there is some serious confusion in the air, especially if you look at the very cool and nicely done C64 case vs. the x1000 bog-standard PC case, and especially if you think the "overpriced"  part over one more time.

If you want new, exiting *Amiga* hardware, you should take a look at the "Natami" project...

I would have to say there is something fundamentally wrong WITH YOU if you think a crappy Chinese made c64x is classier than a X1000. Next you are going to start praising iconatain's range of 'Amiga' tablets. Do you have any class whatsoever?

Also there is nothing 'bog-standard' about the x1000. How many other custom designed ppc boards are out there with a Xena chip on board? The Sams are pretty crappy in my opinion as i think they are just a makeshift motherboard without much care or thought going into them. But the X1000 is different as it was designed from scratch upwards.

The case is also custom. Sure it is based on another already existing case but it has been modified so it is no longer 'bog-standard'. It is custom.    

I also think the X1000 will be worth more than the Sams in resale value because they are different to the Sams (see above). I think it is perfectly possible for the Nemo boards to increase in value. Some of the most desirable collectors items were financial failures that later became cult icons. Thus increasing in value. An example of this is the Walker.

[Kesa]

No, I hope it blows up in their faces. All the BS about "xena" and "xorro" and endless other absurd hype was enough for me.

Is it possible to stoop any lower? :madashell:

[Kesa]

Could you clarify, are you referring to A-eon or koft here?

Oh, I wouldn't say putting XMOS on the motherboard is stooping that low, it's a gimmick to be sure, but I don't see it as necessarily a good or bad thing.

If you guys bothered to read the rest of the thread you will notice i am a supporter of the X1000. Koafder - get a life.

[Kesa]

So how much does it cost just for the CPUs themselves and nothing else? I'm guessing maybe $1000 for the pair? Just remember that the Sams come with only a single PPC whereas the X1000 comes as a pair thus explaining such a high cost...

[Kesa]

So what's a cobbler? :confused:

A test of what? :confused:

I'm bored...  

[Kesa]

oh dear. :insane:

Its just the one CPU, that feature two cores.

Its been said that the CPU chips cost $500 (£400) each, now add the Xmos and few other things on the board, in actually cost I'm guess it cost no more than £600 to make a X1000, but then you got add cost of developing the board and cost of porting OS4 and Linux to the machine and all the extras like Ram, Gfx card, HD, DVD drive, Case, PSU, Cables, Taxs, Profit margins, Packaging, Shipment cost, etc and it soon get to £1,500+.

Oppppps :sealed:

I didn't actually know this. I never really gave the idea of dual cores much thought. I always just assumed they were just 2 cpus thrown together. I guess you learn something new everyday. Thanks guys!

[Kesa]

First of all... sorry for all the short posts that don't mean anything but my account has been f'ed up once again and Pyro & Transition and even the mods seem to have fallen of the face of the earth...

So I'm posting this video here in the hope that someone can please try and contact one of the admins or mods for me to alert them to the fact that my account isn't working again.

It started last night just after I received an email from DiscreetFX informing me that they had just renewed my annual subscription and had taken the money from my back account. Straight after that when I tried to log in I kept getting the message "username or password invalid"...

I have since last night had to get at least 15 "temporary" passwords and reset my account but after either just one short post or even simply loging out and trying to log back in again my password becomes "invalid" once again and so I have to go through the rigamaroll of getting yet another temporary ruddy password...

Once again it's only Amiga.org this is happening on, all other sites work fine as normal. I've tried it on two different computers with two entirely different set ups, all with the same result... my password becomes "invalid" after one post or logging out...

I've checked for viruses, checked the cookies and everything else, all is fine at this end except for my Amiga.org account...

(I've even had to type this offline and cut and paste it cos it's doesn't give me time to type any more than a few words before my account becomes invalid once again)...

Hopefully this video I made of it will show the problem better.... heeeeeeeeeeeeeeelp... :cry:

[youtube]GJaTsEn-zqM[/youtube]

and to top it all off. I've just burnt me friggin dinner in the oven while trying to get this video posted... :madashell:

PS: I couldn't do this via PM as that don't work either...

PPS: I can't answer any questions here or read PM's so you'll have to contact me via email if you have to...

My favourite part was at 8:30 mins. The swearing is priceless

I also liked the part where you send me a message before i have even checked my messages. It feels like a weird sci-fi paradox or time travel :mickeymouse:

[Kesa]

What makes you think it will be more valuable in a few years? Do you think it will increase in value like the Eyetech AmigaOne has?

Oh wait:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Amigaone-XE-G4-Earlybird-Edition-/180702087558?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a12af0986

Sold for £266.99 ($431 USD) with all included items. Research the cost of those peripherals+OS4 and you'll find the board by itself accounts for about $110.

I just don't see how a board like the X1000 which very, very few people have even heard of and which has zero impact on the world of computing will be gaining in value. Maybe a few years down the road some OS4 nostalgist would buy a used one, but only because they weren't able to afford the initial price.

In the computing world today there are basically 2 options. Arm or x86. The X1000 is neither. The X1000 is Powerpc. It is a limited production run of maybe less than 250. It has a Xena chip that has direct access to the cpu. It is controversial. If all these things summed together doesn't make it exotic then i don't know what is. You don't think it can make a profit? The Walker did. The X1000 is destined to be given cult status unlike the generic Sams...

Please don't compared the X1000 to that G4 piece of crap or even the new Sams. They are nothing more than el cheapo boards that have expensive cpu's fitted *YAWNS*.

Also the X1000 has a Xcore chip that was designed specifically to work with the X1000. Sure you can argue that you can buy an add on xcore kit and save money but it's just not the same as it wouldn't work anywhere as good as the X1000 Xena would. Sure you can substitute cardboard for wood when building a table if you want to. Don't me stop you. This argument is dumb.

[Kesa]

A typical response to anyone who questions the reasoning behind the creation of, or desire to purchase an X1000.  

So anyone who raises such questions should be ignored and their questions should be erased from all threads about the X1000, so all the Hyperion and A-Eon fans should never have to see them?

Very often in these threads, exaggerations and incorrect information is given by people that really don't know what they are talking about, so it is only natural for others that know the correct information to step in and offer the correct information.  This is almost always seen as an attack on the product and people that would rather just believe the incorrect information (even if this is not exactly what has happened in this thread).

Don't be too quick to criticize others that are offering their opinions and the information that they know, even when you do not agree with them.

Edit:  My point is:  we should criticize less and accept information that is offered as helpful, or informational.  If you don't agree with what is being written as a FACT, and not an opinion, then provide the proof to dispute such incorrect facts.  Arguing with opinions is usually just a waste of time for everyone.

Actually i thought Framigas comment was right on. The purpose of this thread was to announce an update on the production of a new product and then it was hijacked by pessimists. Please take it somewhere else.

[Kesa]

The Walker never even went into production, it was a prototype. No profit there.

If you are on planet Earth it would have been obvious i was referring to this recent thread.

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=58649&page=5

It sold for 1100 Pounds. Did i ever say the Walker ever went into production? No i did not. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Not sure where you've been getting your information (garden gnomes maybe?) but the chip you're referring to is made by XMOS and was not "designed specifically to work with the X1000". It's an off the shelf component anyone can order. Here's some information in case you want to order one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XCore_XS1-L1
http://www.xmos.com/products/xs1-l-family/l1tq48

That's not what what i said. I never said the xcore was designed specifically for the X1000. What i said was the xcore and the X1000 were designed to work together. They didn't just slap on the xcore chip on the X1000 motherboard and hope for the best, they put a lot of thought into it to make sure it would work well. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Put down the crack pipe - unless you're just trolling, in which case carry on.

I'm trolling? This thread is about a production update for a product i am obviously interested in. How is that trolling? :confused:

I'm surprised by how you managed to get my comments completely wrong like you have. Are you doing this deliberately? If not maybe you should get an IQ test?

[Kesa]

Okay, I see what you meant now, sorry. Referring to the thread would have helped but it's my mistake.

Maybe you should re-read your post.

They were not. The X1000 may have been designed to work with the Xcore, but the people at XMOS certainly made no effort at all to make sure their Xcore product works with the X1000.

Yes, Varisys very likely did make sure it works on the X1000. XMOS had nothing to do with the design of the X1000 though, which is what you seem to have been implying recently. The Xcore is not a custom product.

Nope, not doing it deliberately but maybe your posts just don't make as much sense as you think they do, or maybe you just haven't really reviewed what is involved with the X1000. You were saying (in another post) that it had dual processors, which it does not. You then claimed the Xcore processor was designed for the X1000, then recanted that and claimed that the X1000 and Xcore were designed to work with each other, which they were not.

If you were truly as interested in the X1000 as you claim, I would expect you would know these things, hence I get the impression you may be trolling. Nothing wrong with that IMO, and if you aren't - well, then now you maybe know a bit more about the X1000 and the Xcore relationship.

However you still haven't explained how any of this will make the X1000 more valuable in the future. The Walker is worth money because it was an unfinished product that might have been the future of the Amiga. It's a rare glimpse into what could have happened to a widely known and respected product that the fanbase of the real Amiga miss and wish could have had a brighter future. The X1000 is a product nobody outside of a miniscule community know about or care about, it has no history, it makes zero impact in the world of computing, its probably future is failure, and nobody will miss it when it's gone - much like the Eyetech AmigaOne which currently sells for less than a set of stuffed donkey balls made in Tijuana. You claim it will increase in value, please give an believable explanation of why.

I reread my post and now i see what you were talking about. I made a grammar error. Again i know that xmos didn't make any design contribution to the X1000 and all the work was left to Trevor. I was just trying to explain that the X1000 is more than just a kit bash using Xcore. I didn't explain it well.

As for the dual core thing. I honestly didn't know that. You have never made a silly mistake before?

Looks like a case of crossed threads, I think Kesa was trying to say that the usage of the XCore etc. was not a straight case of slapping a chip (Xena)  into the motherboard but that it had been further integrated into the overall design. By this I believe he is referring, at least in part, to the Xorro slot. As to the level of integration, in my own opinion, I think it's a case of wait and see. I like the idea of having this chip and slot to play with, it could be fun. Hyperion do need to make sure that the software tools are available within the OS to make proper use of it however. It's not all about hardware after all, the software has to back it up. let's not be total naysayers. I doubt if anyone ever considered that the A1200 clock port would be as important to so many of us as it has turned out to be when it was made.

And why so aggressive anyway folks, no need for name calling among friends.

Exactly what i was trying to say. Thanks! Why did i have so much trouble explaining that? Note to self - stop making posts after midnight

The cost per Walker was more like 11000 pounds when it was built for Amiga Technologies.

When i quoted the Walker i was just trying to show that certain piece of  hardware can still retain high value. Not sure after a decade or so but  if someone bought an X1000 today you could probably sell for a profit  in a year or two when they stop production.

[Kesa]

Kesa, you might want to sleep off the 12 pints mentioned in your signature before posting comments about technical details of any computer board designs.  :lol:

HAHA! I don't seem to be doing very well lately do i?

[Kesa]

I reread my post and now i see what you were talking about. I made a grammar error. Again i know that xmos didn't make any design contribution to the X1000 and all the work was left to Trevor. I was just trying to explain that the X1000 is more than just a kit bash using Xcore. I didn't explain it well.

Duh, i done it again! This just isn't my day