Amiga.org
Operating System Specific Discussions => Amiga OS => Amiga OS 4.x (future) Hardware Compatibility Discussions => Topic started by: mulder77 on August 12, 2011, 08:24:46 AM
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I set up a poll at Micropoll to find out who is interested in buying a Mac version of Amiga OS4.x.
You'll find the poll here:
http://micropoll.com/t/KEv19ZCDDj
This is a poll initiated by me privately and it's not connected to Hyperion in any way.
However, after the poll has been closed (max 4-6 weeks), I'll contact Hyperion to inform them about this poll.
I know that this is no garantuee in anyway to convince them creating the version, but maybe it makes them think seeing so many Amiga enthusiasts willing to buy a Mac version.
Hope you'll participate, thank you for your attention!
Markus
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Forgive my ignorance but what is wrong with Morphos? Maybe just use a skin to turn it into AOS4.x :)
Unless if i misinterpreted the question... :confused:
I voted no as i would just use Morphos :)
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Forgive my ignorance but what is wrong with Morphos?
MorphOS runs on limited variety of Mac models that are extremely hard to find today. The Macs models that MorphOS can run on today are slow and obsolete by current computing standards as well.
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MorphOS runs on limited variety of Mac models that are extremely hard to find today. The Macs models that MorphOS can run on today are slow and obsolete by current computing standards as well.
LOL. So you mean OS4 would run on those Macs that you can buy at your local retailer? :) Those old Macs are still faster than Samanthas... does that make Sams obsolete too?
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LOL. So you mean OS4 would run on those Macs that you can buy at your local retailer? :) Those old Macs are still faster than Samanthas... does that make Sams obsolete too?
LOL, he asked about MorphOS and you turned the answer back to AmigaOS 4. AmigaOS 4 does not run on Mac hardware, that's what the OP asked for.
It is irrelevant to the question asked later - what's wrong with MorphOS - that I answered to.
Of course entering MorphOS into the discussion was totally irrelevant in the first place, but it always happens when AmigaOS 4 thread appears, so I take this as quite normal behavior of predictable crowd of MOS fans. Just pointed out what's wrong with MOS.
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Just pointed out what's wrong with MOS.
Well... take out the word Mac from what you said and replace it with, say, computer, and you can say exactly the same about AmigaOS4 too. As in:
AmigaOS4 runs on limited variety of computers that are extremely hard to find today. The computers that AmigaOS4 can run on today are slow and obsolete by current computing standards as well.
So what's the point of your post, really?
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@Kesa
Forgive my ignorance but what is wrong with AOS4.x ? Maybe just use a skin to turn it into MorphOS ;)
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MorphOS runs on limited variety of Mac models that are extremely hard to find today.
There is a place called ebay - quite easy to find with good few macs that are supported.
http://computers.shop.ebay.com/Apple-Desktops-/111418/i.html?Processor%2520Type=PowerPC%2520G4&rt=nc&Product%2520Family=PowerMac&_dcat=111418&_fln=1&_ssov=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m282
There is a link in case you don't know what ebay is.
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@drHirudo. I think he meant PPC Apples and not intel. As MOS is already on those PPC Apples i was just pointing out the obvious. I have nothing against AOS4.x and would love to see it ported to PPC Apples.
Unless the question was about x86 Apples and not PPC Apples. Am i trolling or am i just stupid? Don't know :(
Speaking of Apples, 5 minutes ago i won an Apple BT keyboard without number keypad off ebay at a bargain price :)
Speaking of grapes. Does anyone have any lemonade? (sings) *waddle waddle waddle*
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The mac hardware that Morphos runs on is very easy to find, much much much cheeaper than any AO4 hardware and a lot of it is faster than any available AOS4 hardware by some margin.
Back to the original post, Hyperion will never port to cheap readliy availaible second hand hardware, that would make too much sense.
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MorphOS runs on limited variety of Mac models that are extremely hard to find today
I mean yeah it's extremely hard:
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=mac+g4
(And that's just one auction site.. you can find them locally everywhere!)
It's far easier to obtain these systems than some "Sam" system with limited availability.
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@drHirudo. I think he meant PPC Apples and not intel. As MOS is already on those PPC Apples i was just pointing out the obvious. I have nothing against AOS4.x and would love to see it ported to PPC Apples.
Unless the question was about x86 Apples and not PPC Apples. Am i trolling or am i just stupid? Don't know :(
Speaking of Apples, 5 minutes ago i won an Apple BT keyboard without number keypad off ebay at a bargain price :)
Speaking of grapes. Does anyone have any lemonade? (sings) *waddle waddle waddle*
what is the part of:
"Would you buy a (PowerPC) Mac version of Amiga OS4.x?"
you can't get?
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Mind that the poll's results are not reliable, each person can vote more than one time since there's no authentication procedure. The only possible check the site does might be on the voter's IP. I have voted twice, the second time by mistake while I just wanted to find a way to see again the results.
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Varthall, there is IP check now (at least i can't vote twice here)
ps- erm ... deleted the cookies and voted again ...
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what is the part of:
"Would you buy a (PowerPC) Mac version of Amiga OS4.x?"
you can't get?
Are you talking to me or drHirudo? :confused:
@everyone. I still don't understand this thing about MOS fanboys hijacking AOS4.x threads. All i did was point out the obvious. Seems like paranoia to me :confused:
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"Unless the question was about x86 Apples and not PPC Apples. Am i trolling or am i just stupid? Don't know"
guess who?
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There is a place called ebay - quite easy to find with good few macs that are supported.
http://computers.shop.ebay.com/Apple-Desktops-/111418/i.html?Processor%2520Type=PowerPC%2520G4&rt=nc&Product%2520Family=PowerMac&_dcat=111418&_fln=1&_ssov=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m282
There is a link in case you don't know what ebay is.
I have 100% positive eBay account. The Macs that are sold which will eventually run MOS are hard to find and the shipping price will be a small fortune. International shipping for eMac?, errrmm, better buy something for half the price, quadriple as fast, locally.
P.S. Your link sucks. Most of the listed models won't run MOS anyway. Neither they ship internationally.
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Where the fook do you live. Because second hand mac minis are easy to get in uk and USA
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Hyperion will never port to cheap readliy availaible second hand hardware, that would make too much sense.
I am getting so sick of the Hyperion bashing some people blurt out on every thread they can. If you keep bitching at those that are trying you'll end up with no one doing anything for the Amiga at all.... geeesh.
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x64 is the only platform for the future. That is why the Amiga is dying out. People with their heads in the ppc cloud. Times change. I was the biggest fan of ppc but it's dead. It's an ex parrot. Get over it and wise up. And don't start going on about aros ffs its not the same. Its useless. Of course I realise Amiga will never go x64 because that would make too much sense.
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The Amiga community would be a million times better off if hyperion had not got their claws on AmigaOS. It pains me that a lot of people are too blind to see the damage they have and continue to do to the platform.
So hopefully people like me, and we are not all MorphOS supporters, bitching will cause them to stop
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x64 is the only platform for the future. That is why the Amiga is dying out. People with their heads in the ppc cloud. Times change. I was the biggest fan of ppc but it's dead. It's an ex parrot. Get over it and wise up. And don't start going on about aros ffs its not the same. Its useless. Of course I realise Amiga will never go x64 because that would make too much sense.
AROS is a much Amiga as AOS4 is....
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Where the fook do you live. Because second hand mac minis are easy to get in uk and USA
Funny you said that. I have been trying to get one for a while in oz but they are really priced high. When a G4 Macmini comes up on ebay they usually sell for about $200-300. But overseas they go for $99. I will keep an eye out though :)
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Whats that in GBP ?
I paid £150 for my mac mini silent upgrade and was quite happy with that price tbh
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Not to mention MorphOS flies on a PPC Mac Mini! It also flies on my MDD 1.0 ghz dual G4. I am interested in OS4 like skins for MorphOS though, that sounds interesting. Still I voted yes anyway. I already have OS4 on my Sam and reg'ed MorphOS on my mini and I'd probably still buy OS4 for one of my PPC macs if someone finished the port.
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Where the fook do you live. Because second hand mac minis are easy to get in uk and USA
point us to "some" of the 64MB vram model, since i'm quite sure you know that the 32MB variant is crap even for MOS.
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I have 100% positive eBay account. The Macs that are sold which will eventually run MOS are hard to find and the shipping price will be a small fortune. International shipping for eMac?, errrmm, better buy something for half the price, quadriple as fast, locally.
P.S. Your link sucks. Most of the listed models won't run MOS anyway. Neither they ship internationally.
You know **** about MorphOS on Macs and that's it. On my 'sucky' link most of PowerMacs are supported. There is also ebay in every country.
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Mine :)
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Whats that in GBP ?
I paid £150 for my mac mini silent upgrade and was quite happy with that price tbh
A quick conversion gives 127-190 pounds. Maybe it is a good price to pay but being a poor student means it is a lot for me. Tonight i bought an Apple BT keyboard for 1/2 price of a new one and for me that is a small fortune.
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AROS is a much Amiga as AOS4 is....
Does it run octamed? Didn't think so. Next.
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You know **** about MorphOS on Macs and that's it. On my 'sucky' link most of PowerMacs are supported.
So MOS works on broken Macs? How nice of it.
There is also ebay in every country.
I vote this for the stupidest sentence on Amiga.org today.
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Does it run octamed? Didn't think so. Next.
LOL. Now is not the time to get snobby about which Amiga os we like. AROS if it ever becomes ready will be just as good if not better than the PPC next gen miggies :)
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Does it run octamed? Didn't think so. Next.
Does AOS4 then ?
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So MOS works on broken Macs? How nice of it.
I vote this for the stupidest sentence on Amiga.org today.
I can beat that, how about this.
drHirudo is a rational person.
How did I do ?
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@ drHirudo
I don't know what the supply situation is in your area, but, globally, PPC Macs are cheap and plentiful and can be repaired at any Apple store or any number of 3rd party dealers for a fraction of the price of a Sam. I don't mean to disparage the Sam boards - I'm sure they're a fine product - but there's no denying that they are very expensive on the price/performance scale.
The MorphOS port to Macs has brought in many, many more users. Since OS4 has far greater name recognition than MorphOS I have no doubt it could bring in a far greater number. That has the added benefit of extending the operating life of the machines, keeping them out of landfills.
As to the possible piracy angle, what does more harm to the community? People using OS4 and not paying for it? Or people not using OS4 and not paying for it? I think the latter. Even with pirated copies, you'll get users commenting on Amiga forums, affecting web metric counts, maybe even developing some software and coming to their senses and buying a proper copy. All of which contribute to the health of the platform more than people not using it at all.
I know you're not fond of MorphOS - that's fine, that your opinion - but I think it's foolish of you to advocate throwing out a capable hardware platform because of its association with an operating system you don't like.
Yes, I would buy a Mac version of OS4.
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Does AOS4 then ?
Yep, tried tested and confirmed here. If you are running it on a classic, Paula etc. works as before. If running it on a "next gen", you need "The Maestrix" which provides a surrogate library to redirect OM's 16-bit Maestro audio through AHI.
The latter probably works on MorphOS too if anybody would care to test it.
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point us to "some" of the 64MB vram model, since i'm quite sure you know that the 32MB variant is crap even for MOS.
Have you ever used the 32MB model with MorphOS? I did and it was not crap, it was fast and snappy and run OWB, MPlayer, Blender, Quake3 and other apps perfectly.
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There is a youtube video which demonstrates the difference between the 32mb and 64mb vram. The 32mb kept on slowing down when a few windows opened up. Especially browser windows. So maybe i would be better off using the 64mb version as i always have many windows open :)
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Have you ever used the 32MB model with MorphOS? I did and it was not crap, it was fast and snappy and run OWB, MPlayer, Blender, Quake3 and other apps perfectly.
not true, as you already know.
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not true, as you already know.
It depends on what you are doing with it. Everyone will use it in a different way :)
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There is a youtube video which demonstrates the difference between the 32mb and 64mb vram. The 32mb kept on slowing down when a few windows opened up. Especially browser windows. So maybe i would be better off using the 64mb version as i always have many windows open :)
That video was just showing the way to rapidly exhaust video ram. But if you disable enhanced display, then you can open an insane amount of windows.
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not true, as you already know.
Could you elaborate, please? 1.42Ghz Mac Minis work perfectly well. Let's compare with Sams:
-1.42Ghz Mac Minis play videos faster
-1.42Ghz Mac Minis run Quake3 faster
-1.42Ghz Mac Minis run OWB faster
-1.42Ghz Mac Minis run Blender faster
Of course, Mac Minis could still be crap but:
1. Sams would be much worse
2. G4 Mac Minis aren't crap.
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x64 is the only platform for the future. That is why the Amiga is dying out. People with their heads in the ppc cloud. Times change. I was the biggest fan of ppc but it's dead. It's an ex parrot. Get over it and wise up. And don't start going on about aros ffs its not the same. Its useless. Of course I realise Amiga will never go x64 because that would make too much sense.
PPC is dead? Someone best tell Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo so they can use something else in their games consoles. Or doesn't that count?
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That video was just showing the way to rapidly exhaust video ram. But if you disable enhanced display, then you can open an insane amount of windows.
Yep that's the one. I would never disable the enhanced display though as i am a real big sucker for eye candy :)
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MorphOS runs on limited variety of Mac models that are extremely hard to find today. The Macs models that MorphOS can run on today are slow and obsolete by current computing standards as well.
Hard to find? Where the are you looking? I'll give you a hint, GainSaver (http://www.gainsaver.com/Catalog/List.aspx?&CCode=1015%5eApple&ACode=G4&Sort=1&PageMax=40) has a later-model Power Mac G4 for $40 after rebates.
As for "obsolete," certainly no more so than the SAM boards, and the jury's still out on whether the X1000 will outperform the Power Mac G5 (which can be had for as low as $25...)
I am getting so sick of the Hyperion bashing some people blurt out on every thread they can. If you keep bitching at those that are trying you'll end up with no one doing anything for the Amiga at all.... geeesh.
People have been looking for something like this for years, don't see how blatantly ignoring the interests of the potential users counts as "trying..."
x64 is the only platform for the future. That is why the Amiga is dying out. People with their heads in the ppc cloud. Times change. I was the biggest fan of ppc but it's dead. It's an ex parrot. Get over it and wise up. And don't start going on about aros ffs its not the same. Its useless. Of course I realise Amiga will never go x64 because that would make too much sense.
Let's see...my Power Mac G5 still exists, still runs like new, and is fairly competitive performance-wise with an average Core 2 Duo system, was available affordably from a refurb retailer in quantity, to say nothing of less-powerful cheaper models, and the PPC architecture remains in use in all three current-gen consoles and at least one next-gen console...yeah, I can see how that's dead.
PPC is dead? Someone best tell Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo so they can use something else in their games consoles. Or doesn't that count?
It doesn't count because it doesn't support his argument ;D
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x64 is the only platform for the future. That is why the Amiga is dying out. People with their heads in the ppc cloud. Times change. I was the biggest fan of ppc but it's dead. It's an ex parrot. Get over it and wise up. And don't start going on about aros ffs its not the same. Its useless. Of course I realise Amiga will never go x64 because that would make too much sense.
Let's see...my Power Mac G5 still exists, still runs like new, and is fairly competitive performance-wise with an average Core 2 Duo system, was available affordably from a refurb retailer in quantity, to say nothing of less-powerful cheaper models, and the PPC architecture remains in use in all three current-gen consoles and at least one next-gen console...yeah, I can see how that's dead.
PPC is dead? Someone best tell Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo so they can use something else in their games consoles. Or doesn't that count?
It doesn't count because it doesn't support his argument ;D
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Hard to find? Where the are you looking?
drHirudo lives in Bulgaria. Hope that explains things.
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@tension
Does Amiga OS4 run state of the art demo natively?. Didn't think so, next.
@framiga
I could assure you than my 32 mb vram mac mini is faster than any sam available right now.
Care to elaborate?.
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Yep, tried tested and confirmed here. If you are running it on a classic, Paula etc. works as before. If running it on a "next gen", you need "The Maestrix" which provides a surrogate library to redirect OM's 16-bit Maestro audio through AHI.
The latter probably works on MorphOS too if anybody would care to test it.
Octamed works fine on OS4 with "The Maestrix" installed. I still haven't been able to get it to work on MorphOS.
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drHirudo lives in Bulgaria. Hope that explains things.
Okay, that clears things up a bit. I'm still a little surprised they would be that hard to come by, but huh.
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P.S. Your link sucks. Most of the listed models won't run MOS anyway. Neither they ship internationally.
Really? I've looked through the first page and haven't found a SINGLE machine that MorphOS 2.7 would not boot on (excluding spare parts which got mixed up there obviously, and yes, the Cube boots too, although it's a bit limited). Stop confusing other users here, thank you.
http://computers.shop.ebay.com/Apple-Desktops-/111418/i.html?Processor%2520Type=PowerPC%2520G4&Product%2520Family=PowerMac&LH_ItemCondition=3000%7C2500&LH_PrefLoc=2&_trkparms=65%253A12%257C66%253A2%257C39%253A1%257C72%253A5216&rt=nc&_dcat=111418&_ipg=200&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14.l1514
There, this should give you internaltional shipping.
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Really? I've looked through the first page and haven't found a SINGLE machine that MorphOS 2.7 would not boot on (excluding spare parts which got mixed up there obviously, and yes, the Cube boots too, although it's a bit limited). Stop confusing other users here, thank you.
What? Does a cube get passed the Quark shell with MOS 2.7 and boot into desktop ?!?
I've got an expanded cube (1.2 gig, maxxed ram, Radeon Graphics card) that I've been saving up for use with MOS since I've no longer have any PPC mac software. I don't think I tried 2.7 yet...
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What? Does a cube get passed the Quark shell with MOS 2.7 and boot into desktop ?!?
I've got an expanded cube (1.2 gig, maxxed ram, Radeon Graphics card) that I've been saving up for use with MOS since I've no longer have any PPC mac software. I don't think I tried 2.7 yet...
Yeah, although like I said it is a bit limited, since there's no audio and afair the network driver doesn't fully support Cube w/o some manual hacking. But otherwise the thing should just boot since 2.7. Do give it a try.
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@jacadcaps
One has to be fair, most (well the 3 I looked into) of those units listed either don't name a GFX card or specify NVidia.
Finding one with a suitable ATI or a seperate MAC-GFX card requires a bit more effort (but can still be done easily).
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I finally understood the AOS 4 point.
They think that Amiga OS must run on original HW designed for it. That's what made Amiga what it was back in the late 80's.
It might be a "sacrilege" running Amiga OS on an "OLD" hardware. Even if the newly designed HW is less powerful and cost 3x times a dual liquid-cooled G5 Power Mac.
They probably know that just a small group of people will pay a lot of money for the new HW. But maybe the difference in revenue for including support for old macs it's not worth going against their principles...
Those are just my 0.001 cents! :)
Rgds,
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Jeepers H Crackers! I'm getting pretty sick of threads instantly becoming derailed and becoming debates over which NG Amiga OS is best, which in turn quickly spiral down into stupid tit-for-tat arguments we've all seen a hundred times before and are all familiar with. The thread title is obviously OS4.x focussed - why is it that difficult for that just to stay on track??
I think I'll give this site a wide berth for a few days, see if all the muppets can calm down and stop rehashing the same tired arguments. Before I go though, here's my take: Yes, I'd buy OS4.x for my PowerMac G5, as it's not really practical as an everyday computer for me any more, and MorphOS doesn't support it. I've loaned it long-term to a friend while I decide whether I want to give it away, keep it for OS4.x/MorphOS, or scrap it.
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Really? I've looked through the first page and haven't found a SINGLE machine that MorphOS 2.7 would not boot on (excluding spare parts which got mixed up there obviously, and yes, the Cube boots too, although it's a bit limited). Stop confusing other users here, thank you.
You tested them? Or someone from the MOS team? Theoretically it may, but you probably know that practice not always collide with theory, especially in the Amiga world. What about the case where no Radeon chip is present for graphics?
There, this should give you internaltional shipping.
Thanks.
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I finally understood the AOS 4 point.
They think that Amiga OS must run on original HW designed for it. That's what made Amiga what it was back in the late 80's.
It might be a "sacrilege" running Amiga OS on an "OLD" hardware. Even if the newly designed HW is less powerful and cost 3x times a dual liquid-cooled G5 Power Mac.
3x, hell! I got my G5 Quad for about 1/4 the supposed asking price, before the rebate.
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You tested them? Or someone from the MOS team? Theoretically it may, but you probably know that practice not always collide with theory, especially in the Amiga world. What about the case where no Radeon chip is present for graphics?
Yes, we or our betatesters tested all G4 PowerMac models. It's not "theoretically", they really do work. I'm sorry if your Amiga world experience is different, perhaps it's time to try MorphOS out then to be able to change your mind. Radeons are relatively easy to find if the Mac you want to buy doesn't have one - after all, it's a replaceable component.
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Radeons are relatively easy to find if the Mac you want to buy doesn't have one - after all, it's a replaceable component.
Haha, my Mac (http://hirudov.com/apple/PowerBookG4.php) does not have Radeon. Can you replace it for me?
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Haha, my Mac (http://hirudov.com/apple/PowerBookG4.php) does not have Radeon. Can you replace it for me?
Can you please stop acting like an idiot?
Hint: The search jacadcaps made specifically searches for powermac with PowerPC G4.
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Haha, my Mac (http://hirudov.com/apple/PowerBookG4.php) does not have Radeon. Can you replace it for me?
Since when is that a PowerMac? We've been talking about PowerMacs.
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Since when is that a PowerMac? We've been talking about PowerMacs.
Which returns us to my initial point that MOS runs on limited range of Macs.
Kind regards.
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Which returns us to my initial point that MOS runs on limited range of Macs.
Kind regards.
If over 30 different models is a "limited range" to you then so be it.
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Which returns us to my initial point that MOS runs on limited range of Macs.
Kind regards.
Given that the Mac has used three different architectures and three different ROM formats in four total combinations, only one of which MorphOS supports, that'd kind of have to be true. But I don't think anybody was hoping to run it on a 68020 Macintosh II, do you?
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To those idiots who say 'PowerPC isn't dead cos sony and nintendo and cisco use them' etc etc, just listen so the idiotspeak you are speaking and stop being idiots. There will never be a mainstream PowerPC personal computer again. EVER. Too much water under the bridge now.
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If over 30 different models is a "limited range" to you then so be it.
Only 30 from over 120 PPC models (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Macintosh_models_grouped_by_CPU_type#PowerPC) is less than 25% of the models. If we count by numbers of machines sold of each model the percentage may turn to be even lower.
On the other hand AmigaOS 4 runs on 100% of the AmigaOne hardware and does not need hardware modifications, like some of the "supported" Macs do.
When I bought my MicroAmigaOne I wasn't worried if AmigaOS 4 will run on it or not. It's not the case with the Macs for MOS.
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Given that the Mac has used three different architectures and three different ROM formats in four total combinations, only one of which MorphOS supports, that'd kind of have to be true. But I don't think anybody was hoping to run it on a 68020 Macintosh II, do you?
Of course not AmigaOS 4, but if AROS 68K evolves well, we may see someday Amiga derivative running on this Macintosh II as well as on Intel Macs and PPC Macs. If only there was enough interest.
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Only 30 from over 120 PPC models (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Macintosh_models_grouped_by_CPU_type#PowerPC) is less than 25% of the models.
We've made it absolutely clear we're not going to look into pre-G4 Macs. Out of the potentials systems (G4, G5) we're supporting rather good percentage.
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On the other hand AmigaOS 4 runs on 100% of the AmigaOne hardware and does not need hardware modifications, like some of the "supported" Macs do.
Oh, that sounds like a blatant lie, or are you simply trying not to remember about all those quirks on the AmigaOne boards that had to be fixed? USB capacitor/resistor issue anyone? What hardware modifications do those Macs need? Replacing a graphics card surely isn't above your abilities, is it? And that is hardly a "hardware modification".
When I bought my MicroAmigaOne I wasn't worried if AmigaOS 4 will run on it or not. It's not the case with the Macs for MOS.
Ah, so are you stating you are unable to comprehend the easily available hardware compatibility lists? Interesting.
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Oh, that sounds like a blatant lie, or are you simply trying not to remember about all those quirks on the AmigaOne boards that had to be fixed? USB capacitor/resistor issue anyone? What hardware modifications do those Macs need? Replacing a graphics card surely isn't above your abilities, is it? And that is hardly a "hardware modification".
Ah, so are you stating you are unable to comprehend the easily available hardware compatibility lists? Interesting.
Maybe drHirudo will tell us about the time he urged his then employer to keep patient medical records on an AmigaOne OS4 system.
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To those idiots who say 'PowerPC isn't dead cos sony and nintendo and cisco use them' etc etc, just listen so the idiotspeak you are speaking and stop being idiots. There will never be a mainstream PowerPC personal computer again. EVER. Too much water under the bridge now.
And how do you know that, exactly? Or is it just "because I said so, so there times inifinity plus one! Nyah!"?
And who was talking about a mainstream computer anyway? The Amiga community is about as far out of the mainstream as you can get and not be Forth.
Only 30 from over 120 PPC models (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Macintosh_models_grouped_by_CPU_type#PowerPC) is less than 25% of the models. If we count by numbers of machines sold of each model the percentage may turn to be even lower.
On the other hand AmigaOS 4 runs on 100% of the AmigaOne hardware and does not need hardware modifications, like some of the "supported" Macs do.
Less than 25% of 120 models versus 100% of four? (Or eight, if we count the non-AmigaOne machines.) Yeah, wow, I can see how much better 8 machines supported is than 30 machines supported.
(And as Piru says, that's by choice - if Hyperion wanted, they could expand back into the New World G3 Macs if they so desired and thus support an even broader range of hardware than MOS. But they won't.)
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@Tension
You never know. So don't make assumptions. Intel has not always been 100% successful, it had to make a comeback for video games.
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@tension
Does Amiga OS4 run state of the art demo natively?. Didn't think so, next.
@framiga
I could assure you than my 32 mb vram mac mini is faster than any sam available right now.
Care to elaborate?.
Sam ? what the hell Sam fits in this thread?
i only said (like every un-happy macmini with 32MB of vram owner) that with that amount of vram, you wont enjoy MOS ... until you reduce resolution, eye candies/themes and IIRC compositing.
In few words, avoid macmini with such specs ... and i would say the same, for an hypothetical future AOS4.x macmini port as well.
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I set up a poll at Micropoll to find out who is interested in buying a Mac version of Amiga OS4.x.
Ugh... Ehh...
Yes, but ONLY if it supports a G4 laptop. If they do for a Mac desktop but not a laptop, then absolutely not interested.
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Jaca, Piru - talking with this ignorant is pointless. Better go outside, have a pint :)
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still if I wanted a MorphOS system, I would say there are plenty of PowerMac and at a very low price.. I could do with less than 1 gigahertz
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I voted no.
MorphOS is already available for that platform, plus it seems to be improving faster and they seem to be more responsive to the community. It's hard to tell OS4 exists at all between yearly press releases.
Go to x86 or ARM faster/better than Aros or do a real 68K update and I'll spend some money with them again.
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I voted no.
MorphOS is already available for that platform, plus it seems to be improving faster and they seem to be more responsive to the community. It's hard to tell OS4 exists at all between yearly press releases.
Go to x86 or ARM faster/better than Aros or do a real 68K update and I'll spend some money with them again.
How long between Amiga OS classic versions?
1 to 2?
2 to 3?
Why do we need to have constant updates for an architecture that tries to revive the golden Commodore years? Just to watch the latest blockbuster trailer on html5's youtube?
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How long between Amiga OS classic versions?
1 to 2?
2 to 3?
1.0 1985
minor updates
1.3 1987 (pretty major update)
2.0 1990
minor updates
3.0 1992
minor updates
3.5 & 3.9 2000
Then 11 years and counting of nothing 68k.
Why do we need to have constant updates for an architecture that tries to revive the golden Commodore years? Just to watch the latest blockbuster trailer on html5's youtube?
If they can bring HTML5 and youtube to 68k Amigas, then yeah, I'll pay for that. ;)
3.9 still needs a lot of patches before real use and it desperately needs a new kickstart.
There is plenty of room for improvements that I'm willing to pay for.
The whole point of the thread was to tell Hyperion what we'd want, so there's my input, nothing more.
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Personally, even if OS4.1 was available for a Mac, I'd still use MorphOS.
While there are a few pieces of software that only run under the "real" AmigaOS, none are compelling enough to encourage me to give up what I believe is a better OS.
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What are we trying to achieve?
Even Apple didn't had a modern browser, neither nice games or real useful apps until this iOS hype that drastically increased their users base.
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To those idiots who say 'PowerPC isn't dead cos sony and nintendo and cisco use them' etc etc, just listen so the idiotspeak you are speaking and stop being idiots. There will never be a mainstream PowerPC personal computer again. EVER. Too much water under the bridge now.
OMG! We have a medium at A.org. Rejoice! The prophet has spoken....
....geeesh, get over yourself.
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i only said (like every un-happy macmini with 32MB of vram owner) that with that amount of vram, you wont enjoy MOS ... until you reduce resolution, eye candies/themes and IIRC compositing.
You dont have to reduce resolution or change themes. With 32MB VRAM it might be good idea to turn off 3D layers (composition) which means falling back to standard Amiga-like layers system.
I ran MorphOS on Peg1 with 32MB Radeon 7000V for years and it is enough. Today I have got 32MB gfx card on my Efika and it is just fine. I just dont use 3D layers on it but 1920x1200 with 32-bit colours is perfectly fine without switching themes.
And MorphOS manages VRAM better than OS4 btw. (as MorphOS uses more flexible system) so you can not mix your mA1 experience with MorphOS here.
I would recommend Mac mini w/ 32MB VRAM for MorphOS any given day.
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drHirudo lives in Bulgaria. Hope that explains things.
I always thought he was Hungarian for some reason.
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@original
I was thinking about this yesterday when I was looking through all the Amiga options. If it was available, then I would buy it. I voted.
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I always thought he was Hungarian for some reason.
HAHA! I thought he was Japanese.
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tl;dr warning
I imagine a fair number of users would be genuinely interested in OS 4 if support for the PPC Mac's was there. The cost of hardware for OS 4.1x in the form of anything still or soon to be manufactured (SAM, x1000) is a massive stumbling block. I don't ever see it happening, unfortunately. I'd love to be able to run Morph and OS4 on my PPC Mac, and vice versa on my SAM 440ep. Both are real nice OS's to use, and both HW platforms are quite nice despite the fact the modern computer community has passed them both by, spec wise in relation to the atypical Ghz wars on the PC side. Having a dual boot Morph/OS 4 rig would be a real treat for the community. I'd gladly invest in OS 4 for PPC Mac's.
I say that as a guy that was likely one of the first here to buy a SAM 440ep/OS 4, and I don't regret buying it at all even though I am fully aware most people find them excessively expensive for what they pack spec wise, on paper. Real hard to justify in dollars and cents terms.
In the grand scheme of things, adoption of OS 4 has stagnated due to expensive, specific hardware. This relatively low number of users due to said expensive HW has also caused a stagnantion in software development (see the Morph OWB vs. OS4 Timberwolf/Firefox debate).
It is very hard for me to recommend a SAM/OS4 system to someone looking for a "taste of a modern Amiga" for $1000 full built when a Mac Mini and MorphOS can be had for a couple hundred bucks, tops. MorphOS is a very nice OS to use on commodity PPC Mac's. Niche market HW like the x1000 and SAM's won't ever come down much, price wise. Limited run specialty boards are damned expensive to make, where as Mac's are very easy to come by for dirt cheap.
I use OS4 and MorphOS, and enjoy both greatly - but bang for buck goes to MorphOS by a wide margin. What you choose to use merely depends on your preference and your budget, to me. I have not regged MorphOS yet, since I would like to pick up a higher end Mac than this old basemodel Mini and licenses are not easily transferable, but will do so once I get a PPC Mac I consider a "keeper".
Just my 2 bits, there's room for everyone really - but there's no denying that OS4 would be used a heck of a lot more by the community if it ran on the old "surplus" PPC Mac's.
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HAHA! I thought he was Japanese.
Haha, your wild guesses does not surprice me. On YouTube I was named Polish, no EAB they said I am Czech, now Hungarian, Japanese.
I does not matter much in which of these countries, because in any of them you will have a hard time getting fully working Mac for MOS except may be in Poland.
On the other hand I order from Vesalia since 1999 and had no problems receiving my orders (Amiga 1200, AmigaOne, cards, magazines, books, software, games). Currently Vesalia have listed Amiga and AROS systems for sale, but not MOS capable hardware.
If the AmigaOne X1000 AmigaOS 4 port is properly done it will be the first AmigaOS to take advantage of dual core architecture that will make it porting to G5 Macs more trivial than the much anticipated G5 port of MOS which is not there yet.
To answer the OP question: AmigaOS 4 on PPC Mac? No, I prefer it on new hardware. It is irrelevant if my MicroAmigaOne (from which I am typing this) is old or new hardware. I bought it first hand.
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HI does not matter much in which of these countries, because in any of them you will have a hard time getting fully working Mac for MOS except may be in Poland.
Really that hard to come by, huh? Still, I'd think that even shipping a big-box Power Mac internationally would be cheaper than $2300 USD...
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IMHO, the real sellable value Hyperion has is in the 68k area, but they don't seem to take advantage of it.
They could improve some things every year or two and we'd all go buy a copy.
They could partner with Minimig dealers, FPGA Replay and Natami to supply the OS to shipping, upgraded machines that are about to exist. But they don't.
I'm not sure what pipe dream they have for PPC, but if it hasn't clicked in the last 15 years, I just don't see it happening.
MorphOS seems to have that market already nailed down. Competing for the used Mac Amiga crossover market doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
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NO because it breaks a simple rule in my house "NO APPLE PRODUCTS ALLOWED".& yes that includes old & obsolete models too,period:afro:
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tl;dr warning
I imagine a fair number of users would be genuinely interested in OS 4 if support for the PPC Mac's was there. The cost of hardware for OS 4.1x in the form of anything still or soon to be manufactured (SAM, x1000) is a massive stumbling block. I don't ever see it happening, unfortunately. I'd love to be able to run Morph and OS4 on my PPC Mac, and vice versa on my SAM 440ep. Both are real nice OS's to use, and both HW platforms are quite nice despite the fact the modern computer community has passed them both by, spec wise in relation to the atypical Ghz wars on the PC side. Having a dual boot Morph/OS 4 rig would be a real treat for the community. I'd gladly invest in OS 4 for PPC Mac's.
I say that as a guy that was likely one of the first here to buy a SAM 440ep/OS 4, and I don't regret buying it at all even though I am fully aware most people find them excessively expensive for what they pack spec wise, on paper. Real hard to justify in dollars and cents terms.
In the grand scheme of things, adoption of OS 4 has stagnated due to expensive, specific hardware. This relatively low number of users due to said expensive HW has also caused a stagnantion in software development (see the Morph OWB vs. OS4 Timberwolf/Firefox debate).
It is very hard for me to recommend a SAM/OS4 system to someone looking for a "taste of a modern Amiga" for $1000 full built when a Mac Mini and MorphOS can be had for a couple hundred bucks, tops. MorphOS is a very nice OS to use on commodity PPC Mac's. Niche market HW like the x1000 and SAM's won't ever come down much, price wise. Limited run specialty boards are damned expensive to make, where as Mac's are very easy to come by for dirt cheap.
I use OS4 and MorphOS, and enjoy both greatly - but bang for buck goes to MorphOS by a wide margin. What you choose to use merely depends on your preference and your budget, to me. I have not regged MorphOS yet, since I would like to pick up a higher end Mac than this old basemodel Mini and licenses are not easily transferable, but will do so once I get a PPC Mac I consider a "keeper".
Just my 2 bits, there's room for everyone really - but there's no denying that OS4 would be used a heck of a lot more by the community if it ran on the old "surplus" PPC Mac's.
A very good explanation that I would bet applies to many users. Great post Duce!
Even people like me that dislike certain things about certain people within Hyperion, might consider buying a copy of OS4, if it ran on the G4 MacMini and/or the G4 PowerMacs. If Hyperion were smart, they would port OS4 to the G4 PowerBook (like the 17", 1.67GHz G4 that I am typing this on) and try to beat the MorphOS Dev. Team to a release for that platform. I can understand that the number of OS4 developers is limited to just a handful of coders that might only be able to write code during their spare time and that with the soon to be ready for beta testing X1000, there might not be enough programmers to also work both the X1000 port and another port to some G4 Mac model, but if there are enough programmers working on OS4 to split them up, working half on the X1000 and the other half on a port to one or more G4 (or better, a G5) Mac models, Hyperion should really consider doing that. It would gain them many more OS4 sales than the X1000 will ever earn for them. Having the largest user-base is a big advantage toward getting more OS4 software written by third party developers too.
I doubt that any of this is going to happen, so I don't mind writing these things down in a forum post, even when I am an avid MorphOS supporter.:)
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Can you please stop acting like an idiot?
Hint: The search jacadcaps made specifically searches for powermac with PowerPC G4.
No, I don't think he is capable of stopping acting like an idiot (if searching through all of his forum posts is any indication). Maybe he is an .............?
Replying to his posts are certainly a waste of time, except to correct his inaccurate statements for the sake of other people.
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To answer the OP question: AmigaOS 4 on PPC Mac? No, I prefer it on new hardware. It is irrelevant if my MicroAmigaOne (from which I am typing this) is old or new hardware. I bought it first hand.
So, you might as well change the thread and poll title to "Yet another poll about OS4 on x86"....
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Has there ever been an explanation by Hyperion on why they never ported to Apple PPC's? I'm guessing maybe they are reluctant as then they would be in direct comparison with a (supposedly) superior product? I'm sure with the Amiga trademark on their side they could end up dominating over MOS if they wanted to. so why did they hold back? Respect for MOS?
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I'm happy with my MorphOS machine. Though I would like to think that some day I'll also have an X1000 to run OS 4 on. Sounds like some rather unique hardware...
...like classic Amiga.
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Has there ever been an explanation by Hyperion on why they never ported to Apple PPC's? I'm guessing maybe they are reluctant as then they would be in direct comparison with a (supposedly) superior product? I'm sure with the Amiga trademark on their side they could end up dominating over MOS if they wanted to. so why did they hold back? Respect for MOS?
AmigaOS 4 on Apple PPC hardware was running long before MOS was ported to Apple Macs. What comparison you are talking about?
P.S. I agree, both MOS and AmigaOS 4 and not comparable with OS X. They are in totally different leagues. OS X have big company staying behind it, while MOS and AmigaOS 4 are amateur and hobby projects.
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I have not used OS4 to say, but I can say that MorphOS really doesn't feel amateurish to me in the least bit. Some of the software written for it most certainly is, but not the OS itself.
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AmigaOS 4 on Apple PPC hardware was running long before MOS was ported to Apple Macs. What comparison you are talking about?
P.S. I agree, both MOS and AmigaOS 4 and not comparable with OS X. They are in totally different leagues. OS X have big company staying behind it, while MOS and AmigaOS 4 are amateur and hobby projects.
I wasn't talking about osx. i was talking about comparing MOS vs AOS4.x because apparently MOS is superior to AOS4.x.
Also i didn't know that AOS4.x was ever on PPC Apples. But i guess my question is why didn't they choose Apple hardware over the long term as competitors of MOS?
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I wasn't talking about osx. i was talking about comparing MOS vs AOS4.x because apparently MOS is superior to AOS4.x.
Also i didn't know that AOS4.x was ever on PPC Apples. But i guess my question is why didn't they choose Apple hardware over the long term as competitors of MOS?
You are right, OS4 was never finished or released for any PPC Mac models. There was a project (Moana) that was started, but it was canceled by Hyperion, or the few developers that were working on it and it was reported that the files were stolen from a laptop and posted to some "Pirate" file sharing sites. Some people have claimed that they have gotten the pirated files to boot an old version of OS4 on a PPC Macmini, but since it is lacking most of the needed drivers that were never finished, it is unusable, for the most part and no one bothers with it anymore.
As usual, DrHurido is just spreading more false information. He is a great source of FUD. No one outside of Hyperion, or the developers that were working on the Moana project before it got canceled know why it was canceled, and none of them are talking about why it was canceled.
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I'd rather each team think of them selves as cooperators rather than competitors.
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You are right, OS4 was never finished or released for any PPC Mac models. There was a project (Moana) that was started, but it was canceled by Hyperion, or the few developers that were working on it and it was reported that the files were stolen from a laptop and posted to some "Pirate" file sharing sites. Some people have claimed that they have gotten the pirated files to boot an old version of OS4 on a PPC Macmini, but since it is lacking most of the needed drivers that were never finished, it is unusable, for the most part and no one bothers with it anymore.
As usual, DrHurido is just spreading more false information. He is a great source of FUD. No one outside of Hyperion, or the developers that were working on the Moana project before it got canceled know why it was canceled, and none of them are talking about why it was canceled.
I am not speading false informaton or FUD - I said running, not publicly available. Probably the same FUD coming from the MOS supporters about MOS running on G5 and PowerBooks is not seen as false information in your double standards. But thanks for clarifying that MOS people including Piru are spreading FUD all the time. Not that it was unknown fact. And thanks for showing to us what hypocrite you are.
Regards
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And thanks for showing to us what hypocrite you are.
Regards
@amigadave
Coming from such an expert on the subject I would take that as an compliment.
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Finally, the truth spoken by an avid MOS supporter:
(http://img184.imagevenue.com/loc1033/th_31030_OWB_122_1033lo.jpg) (http://img184.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=31030_OWB_122_1033lo.jpg)
Right on my Amiga.
Heh
Final image in his post:
(http://img167.imagevenue.com/loc1063/th_31272_AmiGirl_122_1063lo.jpg)
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Finally, the truth spoken by an avid MOS supporter:
(http://img165.imagevenue.com/loc580/th_30901_OWB_123_580lo.jpg) (http://img165.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=30901_OWB_123_580lo.jpg)
Right on my Amiga.
Heh
Ermm what's with the porn? I got 2 pop up screens with girls *ahem* :confused:
I'm pretty sure if i was using windows my computer would be fried by now.
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This thread has dropped into the stupid old Red V Blue debate.
To address the OP, yes a PPC mac port would be nice. However...
Point 1. Other than the old moana project, there's no OS4 for PPC mac.
Point 2: Hyperion have said on multiple occasions that there are no plans for a PPC mac port.
Point 3: MorphOS runs on an ample cross section of G4 class PPC macs that are available at a reasonable cost. Moaning that it doesn't support a particular machine my might already own isn't likely to help you any.
Point 4: Trolling and flaming are a violation of the TOS.
Point 5: Thread closed.
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EVERYONE QUIT IT!!!!
NOT ONLY ARE YOU ALL DESTROYING THE INITIAL POSTER'S REASON FOR THIS THREAD, BUT YOU ARE GOING AT EACH OTHER'S THROUGHTS LIKE A PACK OF WILD DOGS.
If you all want to talk about the pluses and minuses of having OS4 on PPC Macs, then please proceed. Anything else POSITIVE should be put in another thread.
Grow up and stop flinging the mud (no offense, TheMud). We all have our favorite flavor of "AMIGA" these days and if someone wants to talk about theirs and it isn't yours, THEN YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GET INTO THE CONVERSATION!!!!!
AGAIN! GROW UP AND ACT LIKE CIVILIZED HUMAN BEINGS!!!!!
J-Golden