Amiga.org

The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Alternative Operating Systems => Topic started by: Chrizz on December 19, 2006, 10:22:38 PM

Title: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Chrizz on December 19, 2006, 10:22:38 PM
WPF is an incredible killer app.

http://channel9.msdn.com/Showpost.aspx?postid=116327
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: X-ray on December 19, 2006, 10:36:01 PM
Hello Chrizz.
What was your first Amiga?
How did you find us?
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Chrizz on December 19, 2006, 10:36:41 PM
Amiga 2000 + Janus XT
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: motorollin on December 19, 2006, 10:40:24 PM
Ok let me get this right, you signed up an account at amiga.org just to tell us how great Vista is?

Some people have too much time on their hands :roll:

--
moto
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: AmiDude on December 19, 2006, 10:41:56 PM
Yeah right...WPF is crap! AmigaOS is alive...ALIVE I tell you!
 :lol:
 :pint:
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Chrizz on December 19, 2006, 10:42:44 PM
lost my pass...
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: motorollin on December 19, 2006, 10:47:42 PM
Eh?

--
moto
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Chrizz on December 19, 2006, 10:56:36 PM
upgrade!
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: odin on December 19, 2006, 10:58:03 PM
Cluepass?

Anyway, with all the DRM crap in Vista it'll be a long time before I'll co...erm.. *buy* it.

If only Apple would make OS X available for general purchase.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: mr_a500 on December 19, 2006, 11:10:33 PM
Quote
upgrade!


I think I will  upgrade... from an Amiga 500 to an Amiga 1200.

If I want the "Microsoft Windows experience", I can easily just get a rectal examination. Using Windows always feels like you're getting something uncomfortable shoved up your ass. At least the doctor uses lubricant and isn't searching your rectum for spyware.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Tomas on December 19, 2006, 11:14:01 PM
Vista sucks in my opinion.
And what we see here can be done on linux + xgl as well with less powerful hardware.
And it seems also pretty jerky from the looks of this video.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: nadoom on December 19, 2006, 11:18:26 PM
Quote
Anyway, with all the DRM crap in Vista it'll be a long time before I'll co...erm.. *buy* it.


I get your drift ;)

AIGLX on linux is pretty funky if visual fluff is what you are after, and no {bleep} corporations telling you what you can and cannot lookat on your system, only geeks grinding on about what is GPL or not.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Chrizz on December 19, 2006, 11:42:47 PM
linux lacks marketing.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: mikrucio on December 19, 2006, 11:50:21 PM
OMG! how wonderfully










RETARDED.

Vista sux BIG time. and anyone with half a brain knows this.
microsoft are are bunch of stupid halfassed {bleep}s. who have no fukn clue about anything. except how to make a tonne of money out of typical human shortcoming. like eye candy.
FFS. the most beautifull OS i have ever seen is OS 3.1
And it didnt have a billion colors or animated and 3d rendered windows. but it booted in about 3 seconds. and was instantly usable. SO take you stupid ideas out of here. and post them were someone might actually think you have some brains.









Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Chrizz on December 19, 2006, 11:54:33 PM
oh please.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: SteveSMS on December 20, 2006, 12:02:15 AM
AmigaOS is the best OS i've ever seen.

Windows Vista is a bunch of horsecrap even if it wouldn't have DRM.
I actually ran the RTM version here, on an Athlon64 3500 with 2 gigs of ram. Runs like {bleep}. You can take your precious vista and shove it where the sun won't shine.

I'll use my Amiga and Mac, thank you very much.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Chrizz on December 20, 2006, 12:04:07 AM
I'm running enterprise on 3GHZ + 2GB ram and works just fine.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: TheMagicM on December 20, 2006, 12:40:17 AM
You realize nobody really cares about Vista or Microsoft in general on a Amiga site?

I checked out the vid and fast forwarded through most of it.. I guess I dont see what the big deal is?  A couple of videos playing and you can switch between them? *yawn*  back to my Linux box.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: ptek on December 20, 2006, 12:46:30 AM
I looked the "demo" and I saw no signs of display crawling... Are you sure it's not a rendered animation ;) ?

And yes, that thing could be like that... As long you're willing to pay for a bloody expensive 3D card, several 2GBytes of RAM, the fastest hardware in order to feed the Vista monster. I would like to know the technical details of the PC they used, like 3D card model, amount of RAM, buses widths... Specially its prices.

Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: bobamu on December 20, 2006, 01:03:48 AM
At the risk of feeding such a blatant and obvious troll.

nice presentation

Though in what way does it kill any os that isn't vista?

How will this hollywood style ui aid a typical system user in their daily workload? How does it empower me? What difference does it make to my activity, what technical aspects need to be resolved, the amount of data getting thrown about there requires substantial network capacity, let's see how well it works when several thousand people are simultaneously trying to order the products? Do we just assume that network bandwidth will magically adapt to the demands of this "rich media experience" ?

and also, bearing in mind that your generic corporate pc may have a good cpu but is highly likely to have intel extreme graphics which will "support" this system at a snails pace.

Whenever a marketing drone talks about "rich media" experience the bull detector goes into overdrive, it's a yawnsome phrase that i've heard repeated over the years that ultimately demonstrates nothing other than a perceived revenue stream that you might want to impress some investors with.

And then there's the offensive level of drm, Protected Audio Path? yeah.. sounds like PAP doesn't it, and document rights management? How funny will it be when someone revokes the access to your private data and your computer refuses to allow you to use it, this crack WILL occur.

And what the hell is the justification for this?

fun microsoft drm (http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/stream/output_protect.mspx)

Sorry but I enjoy the ownership and control of my data, and I can manage that with any os (including current versions of windows), I will most likely be migrating seriously to linux in the near future, it's possible I may get a mac or two, but I certainly have no desire or necessity for vista, it offers me nothing that XP or 2K isn't good enough to do already.

And the security is still persistently useless. With the mentality of hiding security flaws from the public until a patch is constructed it's no suprise there's already so many compromised machines out there, this will continue to occur with vista.

I only really keep windows for games these days, I personally wouldn't trust it with anything serious.

Feel free to tell me how crap linux and everything else is, I find it performs the tasks I require of it. And that's all that's required of a tool, which is what a computer is.

And I quite like my amigas too.

I'm happy for you that vista provides you fullfillment in your life but its worth absolutely nothing to me and indeed, most of the members of this website.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: countzero on December 20, 2006, 01:34:48 AM
Quote

Chrizz wrote:
I'm running enterprise on 3GHZ + 2GB ram and works just fine.


And I'm running Classic Workbench (http://classicwb.abime.net/) on 7 Mhz and 2 Mb and it works like a charm  :lol:
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: GreggBz on December 20, 2006, 02:17:24 AM
Quote
Chriz Wrote:
linux lacks marketing.


Are you typing on a tiny wrist watch?

Quote
Chriz Wrote:
I'm running enterprise on 3GHZ + 2GB ram and works just fine.


Enterprise sucked, the first 3 seasons anyway. Archer was flaky, the plot lines were recycled and the characters were quite contrived. Unfortunately, it got really good by the 4th year, just in time for all 17 fans to notice.










Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: bobamu on December 20, 2006, 02:30:16 AM
hahahaha :lol:
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: AmigaPete on December 20, 2006, 02:36:56 AM
Come on you guys... I like Vista... It's fun...

(http://www.maj.com/gallery/LegoPete/Amiga/vista.jpg)

Pete
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Vlabguy1 on December 20, 2006, 02:37:00 AM


I think Chrizz..has left the building..haha!!
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Fester on December 20, 2006, 02:39:06 AM
Cool!

I enjoyed the part of the show where there were three video screens that seemed to float on a mountain background. That sort of frazzle-dazzle pizazz will really help me keep track of my budget files and type mesmerizing emails to my wife. I wonder what's next...Excel 3D? ooh. Now I can type in my formulas sideways.

No really, that's nifty but not enough for me to want to upgrade.

It's fun to see those "Amiga is dead" posts surface once in a while...irrelevant but entertaining.

Fester

Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: metalman on December 20, 2006, 02:46:42 AM
Quote

GreggBz wrote:
Quote
Chriz Wrote:
linux lacks marketing.


Are you typing on a tiny wrist watch?

Quote
Chriz Wrote:
I'm running enterprise on 3GHZ + 2GB ram and works just fine.


Enterprise sucked, the first 3 seasons anyway. Archer was flaky, the plot lines were recycled and the characters were quite contrived. Unfortunately, it got really good by the 4th year, just in time for all 17 fans to notice.


 :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:

at least Star Trek is a constructive discussion!

And I just installed XP last year ...

Now, got to run out buy a GeForce 8800GTX, 2Gig Ram, install vista, just so I can watch 3D pop up Ads ...... That will really increase your productivity!?
 :roll:  :roll:

Well there is the killer app of 3D porn ...  :lol:
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: mikrucio on December 20, 2006, 05:41:46 AM
LOL!! I spend hours on Vista pro!! HOURS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: LoadWB on December 20, 2006, 06:23:52 AM
To put it simply, as an IT professional, and after having attended numerous informational and technical seminars on Vista, as well as having played with it myself,

I will not be encouraging my customers to switch within the first year of Vista's release.  Vista is primarily eye candy and offers few technological or functional reasons to switch from Windows XP.  It is unreasonable in its requirements for business purposes, and obsoletes many machines which are fully capable of running Windows XP.

The basic edition of Vista is basically Windows XP.  I will admit that Vista contains many attractive possibilities to IT admins, but not enough to warrant what is required to move.

My personal objections lie mostly in the realm of DRM.  I don't think I need to go on a diatribe about this as most of my audience is technically savvy enough to already know the arguments against DRM.  To be brief, DRM is a broken method for controlling the demise of a broken business model.

End of line.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: motorollin on December 20, 2006, 06:59:29 AM
Quote
bobamu wrote:
fun microsoft drm (http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/stream/output_protect.mspx)

What the hell does all that mean? How can a video or audio output have "protection"? Protection from what? And why do data on the PCI bus need to be encrypted on their way to the GFX card? Who is going to capture it along the way? What would they do with it even if they could?

What is Microsoft so frightened of that they feel the need to "protect" everything like this?

--
moto
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: McVenco on December 20, 2006, 07:46:30 AM
Quote
What is Microsoft so frightened of that they feel the need to "protect" everything like this?


I guess Microsoft's testing lab found a way to port AIDS to Windows, so now they are trying to protect it in every possible way to prevent your computer from dying by infection from a HIV infected hacker.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Chrizz on December 20, 2006, 08:12:13 AM
that's on the browser.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Chrizz on December 20, 2006, 08:14:00 AM
You don't understand. That's a huge feature for online marketing.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Chrizz on December 20, 2006, 08:16:09 AM
So?
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Homer on December 20, 2006, 08:31:32 AM
Hi Chrizz,

Can you elaborate on your thoughts ? One line responses are not helping us to understand what you are trying to tell us.
You must understand that this is a site for people that still enjoy using old computers. Think nostalgia. Understand that our machines are 10-20 years old. Understand a PC of that age was consigned to the scrap heap 3 years after it was built.
The MicroSoft business model is based on making you buy a new PC by making the old one obsolete every time they make a new OS. Combine this with draconian DRM with more in the pipeline, and you may want to move away from it. I suggest you buy an Amiga. The guys here will assist you in your quest for enlightenment  :lol:
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: McVenco on December 20, 2006, 08:33:12 AM
Yay triple post! Is there an /ignore option on this forum?

On topic: Chrizz, there are probably zero Amiga users here who are willing to agree with you that Vista is "the only OS", so go troll someone on a Linux forum or so..
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Homer on December 20, 2006, 08:36:25 AM
McVenco:
I guess the triple posts are due to the inefficient OS he is using  :lol:
It is always possible that he wishes to attain the highest number of posts on a forum he doesn't want to be on !!
Sheesh, time for a :pint:
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: stopthegop on December 20, 2006, 09:03:02 AM
Quote
That's a huge feature for online marketing.


Whats that got to do with anything?  Pablo Escobar was also good at marketing.  So?

[edit] Come to think on it, cocaine dealing and DRM have a lot of similarities.  
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: swift240 on December 20, 2006, 09:39:14 AM
Ohhhhh dear, so the Amiga is dead then is it ?
Well I had better sell it all off and get Vista straight away.

I think NOT.

Be gone already..............
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: monami on December 20, 2006, 10:48:11 AM
hi,

i'd like to see a feature in this forum where the word windows is replaced with a random word thats fits like "bananas" operating system... why should we give free advertising??? and users who insist on posting completely stupid material have their name changed to bill gates.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Roondar on December 20, 2006, 11:01:38 AM
It still never ceases to amaze me how easy it is to keep feeding trolls.

On a side note, I watched that clip and didn't see anything so amazing about it. Clips like that have been floating about for ages now and about multiple OS-es too. (I saw one -literally- years ago for the Sun sparc machines. I also saw something similar a few years back for Macs and as a PC application)

There is nothing there an adequately specced PC/Mac/Etc couldn't do today. Without Vista.

And a far more important question is: What's the use? Cool clip aside, I can't see me use that. It looks like a bad UI design if anything.

Marketing use? Get real, cool clips won't help push more Vista PC's. They're the only real OS supplier anyway and joe sixpacks isn't gonna buy a Mac/install Linux regardless.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Quixote on December 20, 2006, 11:32:31 AM
:roll: From the thread's title, I though the thread might be about some piece of upcoming legislation, or something significant.  Instead it's just a video showing new hardware with video effects similar to what my Amiga 3000's Video Toaster can do.  No biggie, and years late, I might add.

:-? At least, I think that's all the video shows; I can only see the first frame here at work, where we use....

That's right...

:cry: -Windows2003 Server.  Apparantly it isn't fast enough, though oddly AmigaOS3.5 on a Motorrola 68040 is.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: koaftder on December 20, 2006, 11:46:51 AM
WPF is just another brick in the wasteland of .NET . It actually doesn't have anything to do with Vista other than it's going to ship with Vista.

Why is Microsoft and Apple pimping stuff thats application layer level and playing off like it's brand new OS innovation? They do this because there really isn't much left to innovate at the OS layer and they need to sell customers on upgrades. This is why unix is still around, it does everything you need an OS to do and it does it well.

All of the innovation is at the app layer these days. The operating system is increasingly becoming irrelevant.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Quixote on December 20, 2006, 06:16:09 PM
:-? Guys, I think Chrizz's troubles with the triple posts are due to using threaded view instead of flat view.  For him, his replies appear directly below the post he is replying to.

:roll: Or maybe he just assumed that they would, because that's what he's used to; I don't use threaded view myself, and so haven't checked....

[Edit]
;-) Just checked.  In threaded view, his responses do make more sense.  (Not much more....)
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: KThunder on December 20, 2006, 06:52:50 PM
amiga has outlasted windows 386,3.0,3.1,95,98,me, and 2000 and it will outlast xp and vista as long as there are machines to run it; which with winuae and aros will be a long time.

chrizzzzzz will be back in a few years to say that all os's besides microsoft stupid pro are dead.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: tonyvdb on December 20, 2006, 07:16:37 PM
The big issue with Vista is that at this point it dose not support any programs that require Open GL to run properly. And as far as playing two videos at the same time the Amiga can do that easaly using the Video Toaster Flyer so big deal.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Hans_ on December 20, 2006, 07:33:23 PM
Ok I checked out the demo. It does look nice. However, using OpenGL I can wrap any video stream onto a 3D object. Add an audio mixer and we're on our way to replicating this thing.

It sounds like Microsoft have designed a multimedia presentation system that's somewhat like Andreas Falkenhahn's Hollywood for the Amiga, but with video and 3D extensions.

My suggestion is this, instead of being wowed by this product, or, dissing Microsoft and Vista, how about we look at developing AVI, quicktime and mpeg datatypes so that Hollywood can play video. We already have avcodec.library (at least for OS4) so it should be doable. Alternatively Andreas could use avcodec directly. That would mean he'd have less time to develop other stuff though so it's preferrable that someone else does that work.

For the 3D stuff, that's something Andreas can aim for in Hollywood 3.0. AmigaOS4 has Warp3D/MiniGL and will be getting MESA, Morphos has a TinyGL derivative (does Aros have anything) and classic Amigas with 3D cards have Warp3D. There's no reason why we can't have the same thing. I think that Hollywood, as it stands now, is a good starting point toward a media development framework that can do the same thing.

Hans
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: TheWizard on December 20, 2006, 07:39:03 PM
You know, I checked out that demo months ago. Why is this bloke being such an evangelist today? Also, how is WPF - Windows Presentation Foundation (layer) an app?  :roll:

The Wizard
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Hans_ on December 20, 2006, 07:44:28 PM
Quote

TheWizard wrote:
You know, I checked out that demo months ago. Why is this bloke being such an evangelist today? Also, how is WPF - Windows Presentation Foundation (layer) an app?  :roll:


It's not. However, it does alow you to create media-rich apps fairly rapidly.

Hans
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: cv643d on December 20, 2006, 07:57:10 PM
Vista = a dumb American operating system.

"Youre either a Vista user or a terrorist"
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: TheWizard on December 20, 2006, 07:59:39 PM
Quote

It's not. However, it does alow you to create media-rich apps fairly rapidly.


Thanks man - I've actually been experimenting with application development under WPF/Expression for a while now. Cheers! ;-)
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: PPC on December 20, 2006, 08:02:23 PM
Quote

Chrizz wrote:
I'm running enterprise on 3GHZ + 2GB ram and works just fine.


Amazing! now my 68060 csppc Amiga runs circles around your machine in terms of multi tasking and boot time  :-D
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Speelgoedmannetje on December 20, 2006, 08:24:18 PM
Quote

koaftder wrote:
there really isn't much left to innovate at the OS layer
There is a hell of a lot to innovate at the os layer. Current os'es are dog slow, bloated and inconsistent.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: TheWizard on December 20, 2006, 08:29:26 PM
Quote

cv643d wrote:
Vista = a dumb American operating system.


Now that's just plain silly.


Quote

"Youre either a Vista user or a terrorist"

I do love, however, terrorizing PC users!  :-D
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Hans_ on December 20, 2006, 08:30:49 PM
Quote

TheWizard wrote:
Quote

"Youre either a Vista user or a terrorist"

I do love, however, terrorizing PC users!  :-D


So you just admitted it.  :lol:

Hans
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Ilwrath on December 20, 2006, 09:03:33 PM
I don't know about the WPF, but Windows has featured the GPF since its introduction.  I hear that's a real application killer, too.

Oh wait, you said killer application, not application killer.  nevermind...  :lol:
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Starrunner on December 20, 2006, 09:18:39 PM
Windows Vista is the reason that I am going to be converting to Macs for my video business, and most likely Linux of some kind, or MorphOS at home.  If I could ever get the A4000 I have to run right it would do everything for me and sod off on the PC.  And Microsoft...
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: InTheSand on December 20, 2006, 09:25:42 PM
@llwrath:  :lol:

Who was General Protection Fault, and what was he doing on my computer anyway?!

 - Ali
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: amiga_3k on December 20, 2006, 09:36:17 PM
I couldn't get myself to read the full thread, so please skip the points I mention that already have been mentioned before ;-)

In this world we're living in a computer is something with a Microsoft Windows 'Operating System'. Atleast, that's what the majority believes. Sure, more people seem to like Apple's OS (I'm using 9.2 here at the moment) every year but most people use MS's Windows. And only God knows why!

I've got myself some computing experience in the past 18 year or so and it were those years that computing took a serious flight, mainly started by Amiga. So all the flashing knobs, screeming whistles and shaking keyboards were introduced to me over a nice long period in time allowing me to get used to it. Due to my work I had to use DOS, Windows3.11, Windows 95, 98, NT, 2000, XP, OpenVMS, various Linuxes and privatly I added Apple's 9.2 and X as well. So I've came across a lot of odds and weirds in all those OS-es but luckiliy for me, not all at once!

Try to imagine the hopeless individual who just has bought his/her first ever PC with WindowsXP. Try to imagine all the hairs he/she is pulling out of his/her head when he/she [from now on HE, if you feel offended read SHE instead] tries to get the machine on the internet. Imagine the fight he has to put up just to try and create those nice picture-effect things he saw in the advertising. Sure, he can take the invitational tour of XP but does that really teach him anything? We know our ways through the system but just imagine you've never used a computer.... All I can say I'm glad I got involved during the Amiga-hype. If I had to step in NOW, I'd probably repack the machine within the hour and try to trade it for a type-writer, a bucket-load of enveloppes, stamps, a deck of cards and a good book!

Microsoft is sure to sell a sh*t-load of Vistas and I'm pretty sure quite some of us here will have a go at it. I'm pretty sure I've got to as I'm planning on gettinga a AMD powered laptop. But I doubt it will stay on it. I simply find it hard to believe that an Operating System can only run in 2GB of memory with 2+ GHz of processor power. It's an Operating System! It's only purpose should be establishing communication between all kinds of hardware (Video card, Sound Card, DVD-player, Harddisk, etc...) and let me know the outcome of that communication. And if I feel I've got to do something with that outcome it should let me into the communication as well. No-one can convince me that for that communication 2 GHz of processorpower and 2GB of memory is needed!

So, that's my rant against Vista!

And Amiga? It will last and last and last and last....
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: tonyvdb on December 20, 2006, 09:40:39 PM
Quote

And Amiga? It will last and last and last and last....


Amen!
I dont see anyone hanging onto there old 486 PC's  ;-)
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Boudicca on December 20, 2006, 09:40:43 PM
Ok...the original post was vitri-trollic

but....he's not far wrong with "so every other OS not being VISTA"

ATM....there isn't an OS that "It just does it!" except Windoze

I've installed and painfully struggled with 5 different ux's this year, just trying to do stuff....in each case, it takes a patch or different conf setting or just doesn't or needs so much time that my coffee gets cold cutting and pasteing how to's to get the dam Ux working with whatever. Its got to a point now where I'm emailing people who develop just to move forward.

Yet Windoze did it out of the box, one or two clicks and it works, sometimes it also needs a patch but the patch uninstalls the previous version fixes the problem without needing to open notepad or a shell or do anywhere near the amount of poking that Ux does.

And that really sums up Windoze Vista and Ux and any other OS. It takes time to get linux to just do, when Windoze just does.

Ok...I know that if you are familar with the Ux OS's its just vi away but any OS that requires that amount of poking is not for just "users" is it and that really defines an Good OS, how much does the user have to do to get the thing done. Windoze at the moment and even by that video does it and has won it all bar the shouting.

Shaz ;)

Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: motorollin on December 20, 2006, 09:43:38 PM
Quote
Boudicca wrote:
ATM....there isn't an OS that "It just does it!" except Windoze

Yes there is. (http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/)

--
moto
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Boudicca on December 20, 2006, 09:53:51 PM
Quote

motorollin wrote:
Yes there is. (http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/)
--
moto


Now for me, I haven't got a mac to comment and none of my boxes can run it natively. Maybe if it did I could agree :)

Shaz
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: amiga_3k on December 20, 2006, 09:57:31 PM
Quote

tonyvdb wrote:

Amen!
I dont see anyone hanging onto there old 486 PC's  ;-)


Don't know if you've been following the Minimig thread but last night I was doing the laundry (has to be done every now and then) and was thinking about that little machine. And what came to mind? I thought about the concept probably being able to.... impersonate an old IBM PC. ;-)
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Boudicca on December 20, 2006, 10:03:00 PM
Quote

amiga_3k wrote:
Don't know if you've been following the Minimig thread but last night I was doing the laundry (has to be done every now and then) and was thinking about that little machine. And what came to mind? I thought about the concept probably being able to.... impersonate an old IBM PC. ;-)


Its been already done.......

Samsung UMPC !  ;)

The only thing missing is Charlie Chaplin and youve
got it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IY1pcdPbgcc

:)

Shaz
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: stopthegop on December 20, 2006, 10:08:37 PM
Quote
I dont see anyone hanging onto there old 486 PC's


And if they do, they would never admit it!  PC enthusiasts are adroit at forgetting their past.  Have you ever gone into a PC shop looking for parts for your Amiga, asking something like "Excuse me, do you have any used 3DFX PCI video cards or 8M single sided non-edo SIMMs?", only to be met with a blank stare as if you'd just handed him a jar of bile?  "Thats old."
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Chrizz on December 21, 2006, 08:07:12 AM
The problem here is people thinks Amiga are still productive and have a future.. Amiga can have a future only if Microsoft or Apple will buy it.
Quote

Homer wrote:
Hi Chrizz,

Can you elaborate on your thoughts ? One line responses are not helping us to understand what you are trying to tell us.
You must understand that this is a site for people that still enjoy using old computers. Think nostalgia. Understand that our machines are 10-20 years old. Understand a PC of that age was consigned to the scrap heap 3 years after it was built.
The MicroSoft business model is based on making you buy a new PC by making the old one obsolete every time they make a new OS. Combine this with draconian DRM with more in the pipeline, and you may want to move away from it. I suggest you buy an Amiga. The guys here will assist you in your quest for enlightenment  :lol:
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Chrizz on December 21, 2006, 08:10:44 AM
When Amiga was in fashion noone cared about computers. Computers have replaced TV, shops etc, you have to understand time has changed and Amiga is not able to deliver.


Quote

Marketing use? Get real, cool clips won't help push more Vista PC's. They're the only real OS supplier anyway and joe sixpacks isn't gonna buy a Mac/install Linux regardless.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Chrizz on December 21, 2006, 08:16:01 AM
That's under the browser. What will Amiga fans do when online shops like Amazon will start to use this kind of ui?
Complain that you can do on Amiga too? Yes maybe.. but Amiga doesn't even carry mozilla.
I have no problem with people using Amiga as nostalgia machines, I would probably set up one just for the fun of it.. but you must face the truth, Amiga is obsolete.

Quote

Hans_ wrote:
Ok I checked out the demo. It does look nice. However, using OpenGL I can wrap any video stream onto a 3D object. Add an audio mixer and we're on our way to replicating this thing.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Chrizz on December 21, 2006, 08:18:14 AM
Quote

Also, how is WPF - Windows Presentation Foundation (layer) an app?  :roll:


"killer application" is an economic concept.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Chrizz on December 21, 2006, 08:19:36 AM
Quote

Amazing! now my 68060 csppc Amiga runs circles around your machine in terms of multi tasking and boot time  :-D


Your machine does not deliver.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Cyberus on December 21, 2006, 08:20:26 AM
AmigaOS is not dead (http://www.amigans.com/)
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Fransexy_ on December 21, 2006, 08:40:28 AM
Quote
What will Amiga fans do when online shops like Amazon will start to use this kind of ui?


Not enter to the site.I intend to avoid as if they were the devil all these flash sites even with my coreduo laptop.so i will avoid all the sites that have this ui that like flash probably will be slow, resource hungry and the only real advantage will be eye candy, and like flash you will end found more information on a text only web page than on a flash powered page

and about your trolling about amiga being dead.You will be probably socked to know that even 8 bit computer like msx and comodore 4 have new peripherals, new hardware and new software even today in 2006.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Chrizz on December 21, 2006, 08:43:48 AM
Quote

and about your trolling about amiga being dead.You will be probably socked to know that even 8 bit computer like msx and comodore 4 have new peripherals, new hardware and new software even today in 2006.


Look, I know. I have a c64 myself. That being said Amiga does not deliver. When OS4 will be out it will be obsolete already.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: McVenco on December 21, 2006, 09:14:02 AM
Quote
Chrizz wrote:

The problem here is people thinks Amiga are still productive and have a future.. Amiga can have a future only if Microsoft or Apple will buy it.


Productive? Hell yes, I write letters on it, browse the web and do a lot of other stuff which is very productive; TO ME.

And why should Amiga be bought to have a future? You are misinterpreting the classic Amiga to be an alive computerplatform, it's not. It's only being kept alive by tons of users who invent new things everyday (both software AND hardware) to keep their 20 year old hardware pace up a bit with modern technology.

Browsing the web with an A1000? Possible.
Doing the same with an 8088 XT? Hell no.


Quote
When Amiga was in fashion noone cared about computers. Computers have replaced TV, shops etc, you have to understand time has changed and Amiga is not able to deliver.


Noone cared about computers in the 80's? Were you even born then?

So I understand you are one of those social life-ridden people who do everything on their computers.
Replaced tv's? I prefer sitting on my comfortable couch watching the news, rather then sitting on a chair at my desk.
Replaced shops? Maybe. It's nice to have the ease to order books etc. online, but I prefer going to a bookstore, to browse through the shelves in which you can see far more at one blink of an eye. I also rather have not delivered my groceries by some unknown young kid who races around in a van, breaking eggs and otherwise randomly abusing my food.

Not able to deliver? See first part of this post. My Amiga delivers. If it can't do stuff that I want, I will use another computer for it, Mac or Linux or whatever, maybe even Windows. It's a HOBBY machine, and it's way cool to see that it can do things that weren't even invented until AFTER Amiga's death.


Quote
That's under the browser. What will Amiga fans do when online shops like Amazon will start to use this kind of ui?


Maybe some Amiga programming freak will eventually make it possible. Until that time we are happy to use Mac or Linux (or MorphOS, AROS when they will have the same possibilities).

Or I'll just go out (fresh air is good for you!) to a bookstore.


Quote
Complain that you can do on Amiga too? Yes maybe.. but Amiga doesn't even carry mozilla.
I have no problem with people using Amiga as nostalgia machines, I would probably set up one just for the fun of it.. but you must face the truth, Amiga is obsolete.


NOW you're starting to get it, at least in the first part of this reply. It's NOSTALGIA that drives us to use the Amiga. And for nostalgic reasons we will use AmigaOS 4 and 5 if they will ever see the light of day.

The Amiga is far from obsolete.
Yes, the platform is commercially dead (apart from a few new parts sold here and there to keep our machines alive).
Yes, it can't do a lot of things other platforms CAN do (java, flash, SSL secured login and whatever).
Yes, new pc's and Macs have better graphics, sound, speed and random other possibilities.

So?


Quote
Your machine does not deliver.


Yes it does. You're just completely missing the point of why we use Amiga's.

And that's the last (serious) reply I will give in this thread. Normally I can't be bothered to reply seriously to trolling, but for some reason I got annoyed with this thread.



And stop f***ing multi posting. Ever heard of copy & paste? Or is that obsolete in Windows Vista as well these days?
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Homer on December 21, 2006, 10:02:12 AM
Yes indeed, Chrizz is trolling, no doubt about that. :horse:

Chrizz: You really have to get your head around this.
The Amiga principle is to do as much as possible with the available resources, to squeeze out every last drop of performance from the hardware. MS is the opposite. The future direction of computing must surely go towards lean applications running incredibly quickly on fast machines rather than MS bloatware forcing you to build ever faster machines (and then running just as slowly as the older software/OS did on the older hardware = no net gain AND no money in your pocket).

Now, what did I use a computer for ten years ago ?

1. Web browsing and email
2. Writing letters and faxes
3. Viewing and modifying photographs
4. Playing games

And what do I use a computer for now ?

1. Web browsing and email
2. Writing letters and faxes
3. Viewing and modifying photographs
4. Playing games

Spot the similarity ? Why would I need a new Windoze OS to do this when I can already do it ? Why would I then want to spend £1000+ to build a pc fast enough to run the new OS, after finding that the new OS is so bloated that it will not work with all eye candy turned on, on my present 1Gb/3Ghz machine ?

Consider this: How will MS entice people like me to spend money on something that I know I already have ? Doesn't sound like a good business model to me :lol:

I'd rather have a :pint:

Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: mr_a500 on December 21, 2006, 10:03:50 AM
I don't think Chrizz is trolling. He's just a bit confused and has an unfortunate "multiple-posting disability". (or is it more politically correct these days to say "single-post challenged"?)

He may have a point about other OSes being locked-out... if this stupid "video-bloatware" becomes popular and only runs on Vista. And he has a point about OS 4 being obsolete before it's even released.

The point he doesn't seem to get is that people who use retro machines don't give a rat's ass if they are "behind the times". That's the whole point.

And who needs any of the latest flashy video crap anyway? I prefer NOT to see tons of flash/video advertisements while browsing because it's extremely distracting. It's much easier to read when you don't see a bunch of annoying flashing things out of the corner of your eye.

My Amiga does just about everything I need a computer for (...and unlike Windows, it does what I tell it - not the other way around). As long as my Amiga is useful to me, I'll use it.

(posted with an Amiga 500)
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Chrizz on December 21, 2006, 10:20:51 AM
Quote

The point he doesn't seem to get is that people who use retro machines don't give a rat's ass if they are "behind the times". That's the whole point.


That's not true. The whole Amiga community aches to see new hardware being released and new OS being developed.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: McVenco on December 21, 2006, 10:35:14 AM
Quote

Chrizz wrote:

That's not true. The whole Amiga community aches to see new hardware being released and new OS being developed.


Oh wait, I finally understand this guy. He's under the impression that he is posting on AW.net... :-D
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Roondar on December 21, 2006, 10:38:08 AM
Quote

Chrizz wrote:
That's not true. The whole Amiga community aches to see new hardware being released and new OS being developed.


Is that so...

FYI, I for one am perfectly happy doing retro stuff on an A600 with a flashram HDD replacement. Heck, I even regularly use an even more ancient C128 with a single floppy drive. For fun. And I'm 100% certain there are others on this site that are just like me.

Heck, I'd probably do stuff on a ZX81 if I had one just to see how that feels. Apart from the sore fingers of course.

Don't think you speak for everyone and don't mistake 'using/enjoying retro computers' for 'wanting a new Amiga'. It'd never be the same anyway, so why bother.

Other than that, I can do anything computer related I need to do on today's hardware with todays operating systems. I do not need Vista. Nor does anybody else. The only people who 'need' Vista are Microsoft and the people selling PC's.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: jkirk on December 21, 2006, 10:59:09 AM
Quote

Chrizz wrote:
Quote

The point he doesn't seem to get is that people who use retro machines don't give a rat's ass if they are "behind the times". That's the whole point.


That's not true. The whole Amiga community aches to see new hardware being released and new OS being developed.


forgive him he knows not what he says :crazy:

chrizz if you joined to bash people's os it is best to move on. nobody here wants vista(and i use xp) i want amiga os new or old i don't care.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Chrizz on December 21, 2006, 11:01:08 AM
Quote

Other than that, I can do anything computer related I need to do on today's hardware with todays operating systems. I do not need Vista. Nor does anybody else. The only people who 'need' Vista are Microsoft and the people selling PC's.


That's why Microsoft sells while Amiga is dead.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: motorollin on December 21, 2006, 11:12:35 AM
Chrizz, why are you here?

--
moto
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: X-ray on December 21, 2006, 11:24:46 AM
He is here to talk about his Amiga 2000 and Janus card  :-P
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: mr_a500 on December 21, 2006, 11:36:34 AM
Oh wait! Now I understand. He works for Microsoft Sales! An intensive internet scan has found that some people here are using "non-standard" operating systems (meaning "non-Windows") and Microsoft Sales has a goal of 100% conformity.

"Untapped revenue potential has been found. Advertise at this location immediately. For maximum coverage, multiple posts are recommended."
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: AJCopland on December 21, 2006, 11:38:59 AM
WPF is interesting but to be honest all the DRM {bleep} is pushing me firmly towards Linux.

I'm a software engineer at a games company and we're even thinking of switching some of our apps from DirectX 9 to OpenGL as it gives you access to DX10 effects and hardware under WindowsXP without having to switch to the Vista bloatware, plus it could give us portability to Linux and Mac.

Mostly though i'm ok with the current state of the Amiga and it's OS just for hobby use. I gave up on hopes of a Next Generation Amiga that could take over the computing market many many years ago and as most people keep trying to very patiently point out to you it isn't going to happen.

So why are you here? Just trying to get us remaining Amiga user to give up and all switch to Vista? I mean does that make any sense?

Yay Vista will do lots of shiny things, and like previous versions of Windows it WILL JUST WORK, and in a much easier/user friendly manner than Linux, but who cares? This in case you hadn't noticed is an AMIGA website.

Andy
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: bobamu on December 21, 2006, 11:40:24 AM
Quote
Oh wait, I finally understand this guy. He's under the impression that he is posting on AW.net...


hahahaha

yes, that must be it :)

Tho I'm sure if it was aw this thread would have been locked and loaded into a cannon and fired out into the sea by now.  :lol:

chrizz, dude, really, I think the main problem is that you just don't "get" that most people here really just don't care.

So what you are going on about is largely :crazy: to most people on here.

Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: maffoo on December 21, 2006, 11:56:37 AM
Quote

Chrizz wrote:
Quote

Amazing! now my 68060 csppc Amiga runs circles around your machine in terms of multi tasking and boot time  :-D


Your machine does not deliver.


How does it not deliver? It may not "deliver" for you, but there are a lot of people for whom Amiga does "deliver" while Vista won't.

Personally, Windows stopped "delivering" for me when I tried OSX. Now whenever I go back to Windows on my iMac it feels so clunky and outdated.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: amiga_3k on December 21, 2006, 12:03:22 PM
Quote

Chrizz wrote:

That's not true. The whole Amiga community aches to see new hardware being released and new OS being developed.


Sure we all want new hardware and a new version of the OS. But not to wipe Window's butt. Not to proof they were all wrong and we're right. For me it would be a new challenge to squeeze out of the hard and software even more. Some people do amazing things on their 50 MHz 68030, 12MB RAM machines, imagine what they could do with even half decent hardware, say a 1 GHz powerPC with OS to match. I don't have the skills to write an OS. If I had, I'd already had a go in squeezing my aging Apple system.

The other day I've read an article about future hardware and software development. The keyword seems to become 'modular'. Modular processors [need more power? add an extra core instead of increasing the speed]. Modular OS-es [need it to do more, add a plug-in, now that sounds like OS3.1]. Modular, not a big dinosaur with breathing problems and a bad heart trying to do all but a smart OS that does what you really need.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: DonnyEMU on December 21, 2006, 12:21:12 PM
This is just another typical response posting thread by Amiga fan boys taking any opportunity to trash Microsoft.

Well Vista would not be what it is today without the innovations done originally on the Amiga, however if you trash Vista and you have never used it well shame on you.

I don't really have to defend Vista or WPF, the applications and it's functions speak for itself. I am writing this on the Vista "Business" SKU right now and I will just say I don't worry about spyware or viruses, haven't since I installed it with Avast anti-virus.

The WPF applications really speak for themselves.
(http://www.blargh.com/~danlehen/Boing.PNG)

Here is a famous demo that was rewritten in WPF/XAML and this time in true 3d..

(http://www.blargh.com/~danlehen/Figure1_1_and_1_2.png)

If you want to see more details check out Daniel Lehenbaur's Blog at
Daniel Lehenbauer's Blog (http://blogs.msdn.com/danlehen/archive/2004/06/01/146259.aspx)

The improved functionality that just about anyone who can program in BASIC can take avantage of finally. The UI and system services and functionality has now improved with vista as well. The reliability monitor will now tell you about misbehaving applications and keep track of your system's over all health and you can watch applications and find problems and report problems to software makers..


(http://www.donburnett.com/images/blog/reliability.png)

Microsoft has risen above many OS problems with Vista. It's just a very mature OS for now very mature hardware.

AmigaOS isn't dead as long as people use it, but it's not fair to compare Apples to Oranges so to speak..

Also for those making the DRM comments about copy protection of materials (like the protected path stuff), if you own the original it works fine) and if you don't violate copyright laws then this new feature probably shouldn't bother you that it's there. It just protects the presenters original intellectual property rights.

Anyone complaining about this probably doesn't like this new safety feature because they steal other people's work.

I have no problem with this new functionality as it doesn't affect my work or my own creative works and it will actually protect them. So if you don't like this blame Hollywood, blame people who pirate stuff illegally that it is felt necessary that it be better protected.

These features don't impede your work.
-Don
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: AmigaFF on December 21, 2006, 12:31:51 PM
I dont see any facinating about the Vista media "thing". Only a great Vaste of POWER. It may pleaze the geeks who thinks they know much about computers but have no idea how great DOS realy was.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: HopperJF on December 21, 2006, 12:35:03 PM
Quote

I will just say I don't worry about spyware or viruses, haven't since I installed it with Avast anti-virus.



I haven't had to worry about those since 2003 when I bought a Mac. No bloated anti-virus/spyware software that slows everything down.  :-D
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: jkirk on December 21, 2006, 12:39:36 PM
Quote
I will just say I don't worry about spyware or viruses, haven't since I installed it with Avast anti-virus.


i thought traditional antivirus didn't work well?

microsoft wrong on security? (http://news.com.com/Why+Microsoft+is+wrong+on+Vista+security/2010-7349_3-6123924.html?tag=st.ref.goo)

Quote
Anyone complaining about this probably doesn't like this new safety feature because they steal other people's work.

I have no problem with this new functionality as it doesn't affect my work or my own creative works and it will actually protect them. So if you don't like this blame Hollywood, blame people who pirate stuff illegally that it is felt necessary that it be better protected.


sure it will be protected you can even back it up too. you just cant watch it anymore if your keys become corrupted. you can't watch it on your mother's computer you are visiting for the weekend. you can't watch it if your os dies and you have to reinstall. you can't watch it on multiple pvr's in your home(without buying an xbox.) so sure the only objections must be from pirates :roll:

sorry i won't use that drm crap.
and neither will the majority of these people.
snapstream thread will you upgrade to vista. (http://forums.snapstream.com/vb/showthread.php?t=33382)
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: AJCopland on December 21, 2006, 12:56:07 PM
@DonnyEMU
Labelling everyone who has a problem with DRM as a thief/pirate is a bit harsh, i have a problem with DRM because of the technology and principles behind it not with what it hopes to achieve! (i.e: protecting peoples copyrighted works == good, preventing fair use == bad and when protecting copyright supercedes fair use then it's gone too far.)

Also DRM isn't a safety feature it's a technology lock-in method. There's nothing "unsafe" about watching pirated HD video and purchased HD video :-D

Personally i think that Vista will/is be a huge leap forward.

I do object to trolling about it on an Amiga forum however and peoples comments regarding it being a resource hog ARE well founded. Just because you can run it on a lower spec machine doesn't mean that you're getting many of the benefits of doing so.

Andy
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: stopthegop on December 21, 2006, 12:59:57 PM
Quote
Anyone complaining about this probably doesn't like this new safety feature because they steal other people's work


Excuse me?  You might want to proof-read your posts a little better unless, of course, you meant to call every single person who has ever questioned any aspect of DRM a thief?  

"Anyone" (who 'complains' or has complained) about this ... "'safety' feature" (DRM) is doing so because "they steal other people's work."[/b]  ???  

We're all thieves, huh?
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: mr_a500 on December 21, 2006, 01:26:56 PM
Quote
Microsoft has risen above many OS problems with Vista. It's just a very mature OS for now very mature hardware.


Does Vista still have a registry? If so, Windows hasn't even risen above its most basic design flaw.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: bobamu on December 21, 2006, 01:34:25 PM
Quote
We're all thieves, huh?


That's indeed the mentality. Even if you pay for stuff, you are still looked at as a thief.

Fast forwarding through adverts on "your" dvd that you paid cash? that makes you a thief(so for your own good you usually can't do it), as does channel hopping when the ads are on.

Sorry, but DRM is nothing obnoxious crap, it WILL NOT STOP acts of copyright violation, it will only serve to annoy legitimate customers, pirates never seem to have any problem whatsoever with access controls. And DRM isn't just for hollywood, it's going to be for your own created documents too, yours that is up until the point that someone decides that you don't have the right to your documents anymore, yay security. Of course.. that'll never happen..

And yeah, the presentation system is a fantastic piece of technology, nobody is saying it's crap, I suspect if people had to wade through that in an office to do their daily tasks requiring computers they'd go insane. I know I would, it's bad enough with the computers crapping out as they do already trying to run the usual office software (again, MS Office IS good piece of software it just sometimes gets in a huff)

It will result in a new form of "flash hell" and will require a load of otherwise useful systems to be binned if running the system to that standard is required.

I just think that coming onto an amiga website and "blaa blaa you know crap you must use this or you are completely wrong and I know better than all of you about what you should do"  about it is completely pointless and is outright trolling.

I have my own opinions on os 4 and "beyond" myself, I don't have anything that runs os4 so perhaps folk can work out what those are.

And I already don't get viruses on windows.
Or linux
I don't have a mac, but if I did, I suspect I wouldn't get viruses on there too.
There's no viruses on my amiga.
I might be able to find something with a z80 in it without viruses too.

Sorry, but this thread is just :roll:
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: whabang on December 21, 2006, 01:43:24 PM
(http://www.bentsynapse.net/insults/images/feed_troll.jpg)
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: amiga92570 on December 21, 2006, 01:44:44 PM
Vista on amiga.org makes no sense. Vista could only become a threat to amiga OS if they were able to run vista on an amiga. It will never Happen. End of story. :whack:
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Mad-Matt on December 21, 2006, 01:46:21 PM
Its been written elsewhere that vsta is likely to be the last windows version due to its almost impossability to maintain.  Its grown so big that even the developers cant maintain properly.

vista will have a slow start in life because its not a big upgrade over xp, it doesnt do anything meaningful that cant already be done and it doesnt appeal to any group in particular either.  the only peopel using it will be those who have it forced upon them when they buy their new oem machines.

The gamer doesnt like it due to its remove of audio acceleration so will depend on support of OpenAL and dx10 may be a step forward visualy but at a cost of cpu power and dx9 is done through an emulation layer into dx10.

the business wont be able to take it up due to vistas highly complex nature meaning many weeks of testing before even thinking of deploying, not to mention the horrendous cost of the new os and the fact that all current machines will need to be replaced to run it. vista simpy isnt ale to perform on current p2/p3/p4 machines that grace millions of offices currently running 2k/xp and just about perform well enough.

the drm meassures are there to help the greedy and stop the user moving content to there other devices no mater how much was spent for the privilage of beeing able to watch baught content at least once.

ive gone through all ultimate t4est versions and final, and apart from eyecandy there is no real reason to use it.  generaly takes more steps to get to what you want and actually loweres productivity due to the imence resource requirment that vista utilises.everything is pretty nippy and instant (by comparison) under xp athough nothing matches amigas os for things happening the instant there called upon.

im unsure why people seem to think vista is free from viruses and such because while its lightly protected now, it just takes a talanted virus writter a little extra work to beat it and those not running any kind of anti-virus well...more fool them.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: kd7ota on December 21, 2006, 02:34:16 PM
Hey,

As a young amiga user, I was thinking to myself how or what benefits we could have using Windows Vista....

Personally, It's what you want to deal with.  I am to the point that I try to save as much CPU cycles as I can when im using my computer.  If I burn a CD, the most I do at the time is maybe playing an MP3.  I turn off all visualization effects since it tends to take up lots of CPU power to even display.

Cmon....  This OS being better then that OS... Old and I dropped it many years ago.  Stick to an OS that does what you want and be happy.

For that video.... I seen nothing spectacular about it.... Wow, it plays 3 different videos at the same time and cycles through them.... Not impressed because I like to conserve CPU power, especially since I am doing distributed.net.

The point im trying to get at is that no matter how good an Operating System looks, doesn't determine that its the best.

Enjoy Amiga!  :-D




On a side note.... Id personally be pissed off if windows vista protected every file that was written to the OS with a key so that I cant even use my own files on another PC that I happen to have.  Screw the copy protection.  If a file is really important and want to safekeep it... Ill password an archive.  :-D  :-)
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: sdyates on December 21, 2006, 02:46:01 PM
I have OS X and this does not impress me at all. The OS has this same level of functionality and 10.8 will take a step further. Plus, OS X can do it with a lot less ram.

A mac with 512 can have 5 different avi (tv shows) playing at the same time, audio coming fromthe one that is considered the front app; itunes playing int he background, pages open and creating desktop publishing documents, firefox open with 3 tabs and a terminal session. Then use the remote to 3d the desktop to the background and launchthe media server aspect of the OS. Vista is recommended to have at least 2GB of ram according to a MS rep.

I will not be buying vista at all. it is still cludgy! However, I will buy os 4.0 if it ever comes out. And, my A3000 still has a special place on my desk next to the MAC. The WinTel, well, I put it in the closet and it is only 7 years old.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Jose on December 21, 2006, 03:06:38 PM
@Thread

Sometimes I think these threads are made by someone doing market research on what features could be added to their software (i.e. use others ideas to present them as unique)... Nah...can't be.. 8-)
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Roondar on December 21, 2006, 04:07:01 PM
Quote

Chrizz wrote:
Quote

Other than that, I can do anything computer related I need to do on today's hardware with todays operating systems. I do not need Vista. Nor does anybody else. The only people who 'need' Vista are Microsoft and the people selling PC's.


That's why Microsoft sells while Amiga is dead.


Purposely missing the point of my post and replying only to half of it won't win you any debates. My Amiga still works fine, thanks. It's not dead. I don't care it's not being sold anymore. I don't care about market size. I don't care about my A600's viability for modern computing tasks either. You seem to think I do tho, which is both amusing and dead wrong.

As to the rest:

I stand by my point, I don't need Windows Vista to do what I need to do with my PC. Windows XP does the job just fine.

Oh and by the way, the main reason Microsoft sells is because it's installed by default by computer sellers. It's because of this and the laws of scale that we only* have Microsoft operating systems being sold. It has nothing to do with quality, price, comfort or looks of the system (which does not by necessity mean Windows Vista is bad, after all Windows XP was quite reasonable).

In other words, Microsofts current supremacy has to do with ubiquity (as in installed base), not with their product being superior.

*) Being fair, the Mac just doesn't sell in large enough numbers to truly count.

Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Roondar on December 21, 2006, 04:18:41 PM
Quote

DonnyEMU wrote:
Also for those making the DRM comments about copy protection of materials (like the protected path stuff), if you own the original it works fine) and if you don't violate copyright laws then this new feature probably shouldn't bother you that it's there. It just protects the presenters original intellectual property rights.

Anyone complaining about this probably doesn't like this new safety feature because they steal other people's work.

I have no problem with this new functionality as it doesn't affect my work or my own creative works and it will actually protect them. So if you don't like this blame Hollywood, blame people who pirate stuff illegally that it is felt necessary that it be better protected.

These features don't impede your work.
-Don


I disagree. I do not want my computers OS deciding it has to crypt my personally created works. I want those to be as interchangeable as possible. I do not want layers of protection on it. I want transparency and interoperability on my work.

Microsoft/any other OS maker has no business deciding that my own work needs to be protected by them. At all. Ever.

On a sidenote, accusing anybody who disagrees with you of being a thief before they even had their say is rather a dishonest debating tactic. One that should not be used in civil discussion if you ask me.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Fester on December 21, 2006, 04:29:41 PM
Just for amusement,

I found this (http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-3513-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=12036&messageID=239948&start=45) when looking for a definition of the word "Vista".

"3) In the fiction of J. R. R. Tolkien, Vista is a part of the atmosphere that surrounds the world of Arda before the cataclysm at the end of the Second Age." -- from zdnet (http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-3513-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=12036&messageID=239948&start=45).

So Vista permeates the atmosphere just before the end? :-)

Festering around....
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: jkirk on December 21, 2006, 04:44:45 PM
one more reason to avoid vista
vista spyware installed by default (http://forums.snapstream.com/vb/showthread.php?t=33382)
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: TheWizard on December 21, 2006, 05:11:02 PM
Quote

Chrizz wrote:
Quote

Also, how is WPF - Windows Presentation Foundation (layer) an app?  :roll:


"killer application" is an economic concept.


 :-o Ya....right.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: DonnyEMU on December 21, 2006, 06:59:25 PM
Quote
I disagree. I do not want my computers OS deciding it has to crypt my personally created works. I want those to be as interchangeable as possible. I do not want layers of protection on it. I want transparency and interoperability on my work.


Look first of all if you were a content maker and you seen someone making an illegal copy of your work (even if it was to make a dirivitive work or something that was not for monetary gain) it's still illegal in the USA (my country). If you read the Digital Millenium Copyright Act you will see that it was badly written piece of legislation that trounces all over fair use rights. This is not Microsoft's fault it's just the reality of government not understanding consumers and being run by major companies like hollywood. They are asking for these things built-in as protections. The big companies. Microsoft is more or less just complying with current law.

I think these laws need adjustment and change, but instead of trashing microsoft for it and writing stuff in here, you need to write the lawmakers and tell them this stuff and why it needs changing. If you let the big companies win they will change what the general public sees as fair use.

Microsoft won't protect your "works" automatically. They give you a choice of protecting them or not protecting them. It's not all or nothing. It's a choice. If you had to make your livelyhood off media or easily copied stuff you'd worry about it too. Talk to the old Atari ST community as to what piracy did to the software developers of that platform and they had no defense at all. Most people who have to do this stuff for a living like the fact that it's there.. For instance if you were getting royalties off a dvd from an old tv show. Because you bought a home rights private play licensed dvd doesn't mean you can take a clip from that and put it out there for public consumption without permissions.


My point with the thief thing is not to call people thieves (if you are offended though you should be asking yourself why and if you did anything to make you feel that way), but what do you care if you are not making illegal copies of something if it's in there or not..

What's in Vista doesn't work any different than what XP did if you are using it in a legal way. Protected Audio Path and stuff like that has been in drivers from ATI and Nvidia for a long time.

If you are just are figuring this out, then you need to look at the drivers you have installed as this is a mainstream thing and has been for some time. The fact is Hollywood asked that this stuff be there not to rip you off but protect themselves from getting ripped off.

When you buy a DVD the dvd and it's contents are not yours, you are licensing playback from home equipment You don't own any of it. It doesn't grant you the rights to use it or move it or copy it somewhere. Read the fine print. According to laws here in the USA you don't have rights to a backup. Most dvd producers will have a replacement program however. DMCA superceded most legal fair use doctrine and has been in plae for a long time now.

People are great at seeing the consumer side but did you ever try to make a living by music, videos, movies etc. Piracy just adds the cost of these items. I respect Microsoft for suporting the companies who loose money daily off of this and giving them an option not to loose revenue.

Also if you aren't making illegal copies or doing misuse of materials then you aren't a thief and have nothing to worry about and I am not accusing you..

There isn't an opinion here or anything to debate, it's either legal or illegal through current laws (me I am speaking about within the USA). If you really want to make a difference contact your lawmakers of where you live, make sure your own rights to fair use are protected.

I have heard many rationals for illegally duplicating things and saying well I have a right to use this for "X" purpose. Your government dictates what is legal or illegal in laws set forth. Those aren't debatable unless you get them changed. Otherwise it's just a justification.



Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Speelgoedmannetje on December 21, 2006, 07:29:31 PM
Quote

Chrizz wrote:
oh please.
Indeed, that's what we all think about your retarded posts.
Now bugger off, troll.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: PPC on December 21, 2006, 09:56:07 PM
Quote

Chrizz wrote:
Quote

Amazing! now my 68060 csppc Amiga runs circles around your machine in terms of multi tasking and boot time  :-D


Your machine does not deliver.


Well it seems to be delivering much more with less hardware.
It's been working great for years and without the need for a re-install.
Sure not all App's are up to date due to the downfall of the platform.
Fact is that Amiga OS is much more efficient.  :-D
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Homer on December 21, 2006, 11:06:17 PM
DonnyEMU:
The problem here is not about XP/Vista and DRM, its about a Troll called Chrizz doing his best to upset people. This is an Amiga site. We know the world moved on and left Amiga behind. A good proportion of us also use Windows machines but we don't need someone trolling about the latest PC release and coming back with useless one line comments.
Chrizz does not make an argument, he does not attempt to justify his position, there is no rational discourse. Its like dealing with a child - I'm right, you're SO wrong !!

Lets ask some questions again. Chrizz:

1. Why are you here
2. Which Amiga's have you owned/dreamed of/emulated
3. Are you a troll ?

Oh, and Chrizz - I'm right and you're soo wrong and no returns  :flame:  :crazy:
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: mihcael on December 22, 2006, 12:22:17 AM
Wow! nice t6o know people are still passionate about their amigas!!

the whole thing reminded me of this quote...

Quote
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction.
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)


i had to post it, even though i think that... "People who Quote famous people are tossers!"
(and you can quote me on that one!! ) :-D
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Vlabguy1 on December 22, 2006, 02:43:39 AM
I will post a review of Vista soon(hopefully this weekend)..from install ..to system im running it on..what I like and dislike about it.  
I will post an honest opinion.  

I run a few OS's right now..and want to try Vista...run it through its paces etc.

I always use my Amiga.. ;-)
I think most current OS's trade functionality/stability for fancy good looks.

We shall see..

The Amiga will prevail!!!
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Kaminari on December 22, 2006, 05:01:36 AM
I don't quite get the interest of this presentation. It's presented as some kind of revolutionary "hypervideo" mark-up language technology, but it looks like a rip-off of VRML to me. So, you can watch a documentary and click on the jacket of the dudes to get further info on their equipment while the video is still playing. Great. In my book, it's just a fancy dashboard.

Does anyone remember the 3D desktop of Phase 5's A\box announced a decade ago?
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: the_leander on December 22, 2006, 07:16:22 AM
Quote

DonnyEMU wrote:
Quote
I disagree. I do not want my computers OS deciding it has to crypt my personally created works. I want those to be as interchangeable as possible. I do not want layers of protection on it. I want transparency and interoperability on my work.


Look first of all if you were a content maker and you seen someone making an illegal copy of your work (even if it was to make a dirivitive work or something that was not for monetary gain) it's still illegal in the USA (my country). If you read the Digital Millenium Copyright Act you will see that it was badly written piece of legislation that trounces all over fair use rights. This is not Microsoft's fault it's just the reality of government not understanding consumers and being run by major companies like hollywood. They are asking for these things built-in as protections. The big companies. Microsoft is more or less just complying with current law.


I am a content maker, and the DMCA adds very little over previous copyright law, what it does, is offer massive smackdowns of anyone fool enough to try to circumvent copy protection.

Yes it's a bad law and needs addressing.

Treat folk honestly and most will be honest, treat them as thieves and they will ablige, in my experience anyway.

Quote

DonnyEMU wrote:
My point with the thief thing is not to call people thieves (if you are offended though you should be asking yourself why and if you did anything to make you feel that way), but what do you care if you are not making illegal copies of something if it's in there or not..


But you did call people thieves, and how dare you sir try to insinuate that it is everyone elses fault that they feel offended when they are liabled. And make no mistake - that is precisely what you did.

Quote

DonnyEMU wrote:
People are great at seeing the consumer side but did you ever try to make a living by music, videos, movies etc. Piracy just adds the cost of these items. I respect Microsoft for suporting the companies who loose money daily off of this and giving them an option not to loose revenue.


It doesn't though, DRM stops no one. Name one application written in the last decade, with a form of copy protection, that wasn't pirated.
Hell, most applications are available from warez servers within days of it being released to the general public.

To say that DRM protects content providers and makers is utter bull of the highest order. All it does is effectively accuse your customers of being thieves, as well as inconveniences them. Those in the know will get the non drm'd crack and have the benefit of not having payed and not having been jerked around with DRM.

All DRM does, and ever will do is create lock-in. Even Microsoft have admitted as much - going so far as to suggest cracking their own DRM so as to allow their own customers to transfer songs legitimately bought under their older music service to be used on their Zune player.

Please stop perpetrating the myth that DRM is anything other then a vender lock-in scam.

Quote

DonnyEMU wrote:
Also if you aren't making illegal copies or doing misuse of materials then you aren't a thief and have nothing to worry about and I am not accusing you..


That's not what you said though.

Quote

DonnyEMU wrote:
There isn't an opinion here or anything to debate, it's either legal or illegal through current laws (me I am speaking about within the USA). If you really want to make a difference contact your lawmakers of where you live, make sure your own rights to fair use are protected.

I have heard many rationals for illegally duplicating things and saying well I have a right to use this for "X" purpose. Your government dictates what is legal or illegal in laws set forth. Those aren't debatable unless you get them changed. Otherwise it's just a justification.


UK fortunately still allows you to back up your media, with the proviso that you don't use both copies at the same time. The BPI (The UK equivelent of the RIAA) has also stated that they have no issue with people ripping their CDs for personal use so long as they don't go out sharing them, which is fair enough imho.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Roondar on December 22, 2006, 11:44:33 AM
Quote

DonnyEMU wrote:
My point with the thief thing is not to call people thieves (if you are offended though you should be asking yourself why and if you did anything to make you feel that way), but what do you care if you are not making illegal copies of something if it's in there or not..


So if someone calls you a thief without reason you won't be offended?

Honestly?

And secondly, you surely can see that the people least affected by Vista's DRM will be the pirates and thieves anyway? They'll figure out ways around the protections (and if that doesn't work, they'll find ways to get unprotected masters) and carry on. They always have, they always will.

The only people that will run into DRM are the ordinary, law abiding folk.

As an example, I had a whole bunch of DRM protected songs on a laptop of mine. The laptop fell down and broke into two bits (no fun that). I managed to salvage most of the files on the still intact hard disk and put them on my new laptop. Obviously, everything worked. Except the DRM protected songs, which refused to play.

I had to contact the service who had sold me the songs and  beg them to reinstate them, convincing them I was not trying to steal from them in the process. This made me feel like a bad person even tho I had done nothing wrong. Since that experience, my tolerance for DRM systems is exactly zero. I am not a thief but the people who sell me music treat me as such. What fun.

DRM is evil. Copyright isn't, but DRM is.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: TheMud on December 22, 2006, 11:54:16 AM
Hmmmm....?!?!??!?!? Mac OS X is better in the version
that was released 5 years ago, than vista...! And now
Leopard is coming... Now thats an OS.

Im an Amiga fan, but the most Powerfull OS is Mac OS X...

New Amigas ? A dream... But to make everything faster
and cheaper for Amiga they should turn themselves into
a pure Software Firm... Ill bet millions would buy an all
new Amiga OS that would run on any "normal" pc hardware...

Or make a co-coporation with a hardware firm, that releases
Amiga OS on there "normal" hardware.. Would be quite easy, so
I havent got a clue, why its not like that... Could be
realized within month... With a new OS...
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: jkirk on December 22, 2006, 01:28:08 PM
Quote
I have heard many rationals for illegally duplicating things and saying well I have a right to use this for "X" purpose. Your government dictates what is legal or illegal in laws set forth. Those aren't debatable unless you get them changed. Otherwise it's just a justification.


you missed something. the dmca does not exist to stop copying of works(despite rumors to the contrary). it merely states you cannot bypass the security(drm) of a file this applies to anything not just movies/music. even if you open your xbox to mod the heck out of it that is tehnically a violation of the dmca since you have to modify or replace the software component.

the actual copying of the movie is still covered under fair use laws. this is not illegal. the creation of an mp3 is not illegal. so the content makers want drm so the dmca will apply no other reason. and if we yell loud enough and vote with our wallets drm won't take hold and grow. i have the same negative feelings about hdcp in hddvd & bluray now you cannot back up a movie to your harddrive for a movie jukebox setup without cracking the disk.

i have set one up a movie/music jukebox myself myself. heck the media producers here even want mp3 players declared a pirate device. i don't make copies for distribution and i don't give copies to others. i am not a thief though our government is trying to make me one.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: DonnyEMU on December 22, 2006, 02:22:23 PM
Quote
So if someone calls you a thief without reason you won't be offended?


No and I wouldn't feel bad about asking the company I bought the licensed material for another copy of it. I have to admit something here, I am involved with a company called the 9thXchange (www.9thx.com). We provide our members with downloadable media, and we also provide them a library backup of stuff they have purchased. So if they have downloaded something they always have a backup available from us and a license file if they have legally purchased something. We do DRM right and support the people who buy from us. The company also provides resale of files purchased and provides royalties to the original creators.

If you are not a thief get some backbone, and don't worry about it. If you position is defensible then you are in the right and you shouldn't take it personally or assume someone is calling you a thief.

Another point: In my country there is an FBI warning on DVDs that says copying dvds even in the advent of no monitary gain is illegal and punishable by X number of years in federal prison even if it wasn't done for monitary gain. That tells me that if you bought a dvd it's not covered under fair use, you are simply buying private exhibition license to the content on that particular disc on a specific playback system and it covers nothing including backups or jukeboxes..

Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: koaftder on December 22, 2006, 02:46:42 PM
@DonnyEMU

The customer are saying, "Hey, this DRM sucks. We just want the product, and we want to make our own backups which we are allowed to by law. We don't like having our media and apps locked down to one unreliable machine and then have to beg yall for a new copy every time our harddrive crashes or we upgrade our cpu. We don't like knowing that if you go out of business we basically loose everything we bought from you".

Business used to be about treating your customers right and giving them what they want so they will come back and buy more product/services. Openoffice.org is doing really good these days because people are fed up with all the anti copying crap thats in MSOffice. When I waste time on the clock due to anti copy protection and drm issues i get mad and consider other products.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: nadoom on December 22, 2006, 03:09:06 PM
i read that in tests as far as games are concerned the performance of Vista vs XP shows that vista is some 20% slower.

As far as i am concerned most hobbiest type people who install vista will end up turning off the fancy {bleep} just like they did with win xp, just to get that extra speed boost.

 Linux also has its vista equilivant that will be turned off after 2 weeks :)
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Roondar on December 22, 2006, 04:02:56 PM
Quote

DonnyEMU wrote:
Quote
So if someone calls you a thief without reason you won't be offended?


No and I wouldn't feel bad about asking the company I bought the licensed material for another copy of it. I have to admit something here, I am involved with a company called the 9thXchange (www.9thx.com). We provide our members with downloadable media, and we also provide them a library backup of stuff they have purchased. So if they have downloaded something they always have a backup available from us and a license file if they have legally purchased something. We do DRM right and support the people who buy from us. The company also provides resale of files purchased and provides royalties to the original creators.

If you are not a thief get some backbone, and don't worry about it. If you position is defensible then you are in the right and you shouldn't take it personally or assume someone is calling you a thief.


I don't need to grow a backbone, I don't deal with companies that tell me -in veiled terms- I'm a potential thief that wants to steal their wares. Simple enough. I shouldn't have to ask them for a new license/file to begin with, I payed the original. The file should just work, no excuses, no re-downloading. Period.

Or better said: Yes I am offended by people who assume I want to do bad things with copyrighted materials. My entire PC and my laptop contains zero pirated software and no media I have no rights too. And yet, I still feel this way. I am a customer, I should be treated like one, not like a potential crook.

The basic attitude from the media suppliers is wrong. I'm not the one who should grow the backbone. The people selling media licenses should grow one and refrain from calling me a potential thief.

Quote

Another point: In my country there is an FBI warning on DVDs that says copying dvds even in the advent of no monitary gain is illegal and punishable by X number of years in federal prison even if it wasn't done for monitary gain. That tells me that if you bought a dvd it's not covered under fair use, you are simply buying private exhibition license to the content on that particular disc on a specific playback system and it covers nothing including backups or jukeboxes..



The FBI and similar warnings on DVD's are a pet peeve of mine. I know I'm not supposed to copy a disc. I don't need some people telling me I shouldn't do bad stuff every time I put my original DVD in the player.

And you are wrong by the way, a DVD falls under fair use just as much as any other copyrighted object. Only breaking the encryption is illegal when you want to make a backup and there are plenty of ways to copy a disc without breaking the encryption. Which is perfectly legal under the DMCA.

Besides, if I buy a perpetual license (like the one I get when I buy a DVD) the seller had better offer me a perpetual form of access to the stuff licensed. And until they do, backing up my media is a very good and quite legal way to make sure I can watch my legally obtained, licensed media in the future. DRM only makes sure I eventually need to buy my content again.

Like I said, Copyright is not evil. But DRM is.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: AmiDude on December 23, 2006, 12:03:54 AM
Now cut the crap! I'm sick and tired of this whole
Vista bullsh*t!
 :pissed:  :horse:
 
Edit:
Spend your time and energy on some other
"Amiga related" subjects...
You're just feeding the troll...

:pint:
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: bhoggett on December 23, 2006, 01:27:56 AM
Quote

DonnyEMU wrote:
No and I wouldn't feel bad about asking the company I bought the licensed material for another copy of it. I have to admit something here, I am involved with a company called the 9thXchange (www.9thx.com). We provide our members with downloadable media, and we also provide them a library backup of stuff they have purchased. So if they have downloaded something they always have a backup available from us and a license file if they have legally purchased something. We do DRM right and support the people who buy from us. The company also provides resale of files purchased and provides royalties to the original creators.

And if your company goes bust and you disappear, where are your customers then?

But I don't expect you or your ilk to give a toss about the customers. You are one of the exploiters, the money making minority who have pushed this "technology" to allow them new ways of ripping off their clients - such as the rather novel concept that you should have the right to tell the users on what systems they have a right to view/listen to the content they've already paid for. A way of creating new markets by splitting the existing market into many separate markets and making the customers buy 3 copies of the same content instead of one, while the selling company produces no extra product. Very clever - as long as the end users have no say in the matter.

In actual fact all the DRM will do is create a criminal underground who will make a fortune from providing DRM free content to people who are fed up being ripped off by the likes of your company. A cracking way of supplying new criminal opportunities and profit. Well done.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: mr_a500 on December 23, 2006, 01:33:26 AM
I'm going a little off topic here, but...

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The FBI and similar warnings on DVD's are a pet peeve of mine. I know I'm not supposed to copy a disc. I don't need some people telling me I shouldn't do bad stuff every time I put my original DVD in the player.


Yes, those FBI warnings really piss me off. First of all, being a Canadian, I don't want to be continually "warned" by an American government agency which only has jurisdiction inside the United States (of course, the Americans assume they can illegally go into any country they want). Second, why do I need this warning flashed in my face every time I insert a disc? Most times you can't skip it. I think after seeing it a few thousand times I don't need to keep seeing it.

(rant over... I can relax now :-))
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: AmiDude on December 23, 2006, 05:16:22 AM
(http://koft.net/pix/dh.gif)
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: Amiduffer on December 23, 2006, 05:22:04 AM
Ha ha ha! :-D  :lol:

Hey AmiDude, you forgot the disclaimer:

No actual horses were harmed in the making of the animation. Any resemblences to horses living or dead is purely coicidental.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: jkirk on December 23, 2006, 06:19:46 AM
@amidude

sometimes you must beat a dead horse to let corporate idiots know that their stuff is crap(drm)

btw drm is not a vista only phenomenon it is rearing it's ugly head everywhere.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: jkirk on December 23, 2006, 06:35:51 AM
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So if they have downloaded something they always have a backup available from us and a license file if they have legally purchased something. We do DRM right and support the people who buy from us. The company also provides resale of files purchased and provides royalties to the original creators.


and you can guarantee that servers won't ever go down and always be able to retrieve what i bought(including business closure)?

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If you are not a thief get some backbone, and don't worry about it.


i got backbone. backbone to stand up to people that assume everyone is a crook. back bone to tell them that this ain't right. and backbone not to buy/support such stupid methods of protection.

i used to buy music regularly heck i have a collection of about 500 cds since 91(everything i had before was destroyed in a fire)now i don't unless i am sure there is no copy protection on the disk. i do not buy from itunes, napster or any online service. and i will not be buying hd-dvd or blu-ray for the same reasons(hdcp). same goes for vista or any new os that supports this drm. xp left a bad taste in my mouth for it's own drm and i have bought a version of office i can't use anymore because of drm(original system no longer in use). as such drm is a blight on humanity and as such you cannot convince me that it is necessary because it is not. it is however turning valuable customers against those very content makers.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: stianstr on December 23, 2006, 10:05:11 AM
Man that was boring. Can't belive I wasted all that time :)
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: koaftder on December 23, 2006, 12:15:47 PM
@DonnyEMU

You post about your digital morals and DRM done right in regards to the company you are involved with, but your company sells "licenses" to view material drm style from affiliates who push content that does not belong to them. I highly doubt that the INXS music videos being offered through your site by "Richerme Rockin Store" are licensed by the content holders for INXS content.

Effectively you are are adding drm to content provided by pirates and making a dollar off it.

So much for digital rights.
Title: Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
Post by: whabang on December 23, 2006, 12:47:52 PM
@ all

IT'S A FCKUING OS! FOR THE LOVE OF (INSERT FAVOURITE DIETY HERE), STOP WHINING!

It's an OS. It won't revolutionize the way you work with your computer, nor will the next versions of Linux, MacOS, or AmigaOS.

I am using Vista on this system as I type, it's fast (300+ 3dmarks since i switched from XP), and I have not had any problems so far.

I expect WinUAE to run just as good as it use to when I get around to installing it.

If you want to install it, then do so, and shut the hell up!
If you don't want to install it, then don't (and shut up)!

There is NO need for debate.

Now move along and stop feeding the trolls (I just fed them more than enough)!

DISCLAIMER: This message was posted when I was sober, which means my debating skills are completely worthless. :lol: