Amiga.org
Coffee House => Coffee House Boards => CH / Science and Technology => Topic started by: KennyR on February 22, 2004, 11:21:59 PM
-
It's been suspected for a long time but researchers in the US have discovered that even weak magnetic fields damage brain cells and release damaged DNA - in rats. Whether it causes the same in humans is yet to be seen.
Powerlines being associated with rare cancers and leukemias has been an issue for a long time, and was thought to be associated with radioactive radon gas. But the matter seems worse in countries that use 60Hz and 110V - values chosen, ironically, because they greatly reduce the chance of death through electrocution. These values do produce stronger magnetic fields however.
So what does this mean? That every time you shave, dry your hair with a hairdryer, use a cell phone or even sit too near the TV you're damaging your DNA? Discuss.
-
Umm, aren't we all kinda floating through space on a big magnet? ;-)
-
Or handy's? (makes me think I wear one in my trouser pocket :nervous:)
-
Sure, Earth is a magnet - but one that we've spent the last five billion years evolving to deal with, and one that doesn't change poles 60 times a second.
-
Another issue I forgot to bring up - if powerlines near houses is proven to be the real cause of so many deaths, will we see a mass lawsuit explosion against the power companies?
Electricity. Weird really, so useful, but has it being slowly poisoning us since we learned how to control it?
-
KennyR wrote:
Electricity. Weird really, so useful, but has it being slowly poisoning us since we learned how to control it?
Is it actually? So long we got it already.
For sure tis nothing alike x-ray (or is it? :nervous: I know actually a lot people who died from cancer).
-
@KennyR
Your quite concerned when it comes to general health issues aren`t u?
Why worry? You can die of everything, you can get hit by a car, you can choke when eating carrots, you can fall down the stairs, you can get poisoned, you can be hit by lightning, bla bla bla.........
Why worry? Live the good life! Eat greasy burgers! Drink beer! Smoke! :-D
-
Speelgoedmannetje wrote:
For sure tis nothing alike x-ray.
Sure, but magnetic fields due to electricity are everwhere. We're flooded 24/7 in them, and we're not adapted to them - 100 years exposure is not enough. And at the same time as this is going on, male fertility is lowering by the decade. Connected?
I'm not trying to scare you. Without all this technology we'd be much, much worse off - that's a fact. But everything will kill ya eventually. It's a harsh universe. ;-)
-
restore2003 wrote:
Why worry? Live the good life! Eat greasy burgers! Drink beer! Smoke! :-D
hm, you've probably never seen someone dying from cancer.
-
@speel:
So ur so afraid of getting cancer that it affects your everyday life? why worry? thats my motto
-
KennyR wrote:
I'm not trying to scare you. Without all this technology we'd be much, much worse off - that's a fact. But everything will kill ya eventually. It's a harsh universe. ;-)
Bah! The only one that'll kill me is myself.
-
restore2003 wrote:
@speel:
So ur so afraid of getting cancer that it affects your everyday life? give me a break :-P
Well, I take it easy, so in a way, yes. (okay, I smoke sometimes a cigarillo and I get drunk once in 2 months or so, but really not regularly)
Cancer IS something that you'd rather avoid.
-
@restore2003
Well, that's the trouble with learning environmental chemistry. It turns people into wusses. :)
Cooking meat can make cancer causing compounds. So can burnt toast. Sunbathing will damage you. Cosmetics. Smoking. Drinking. Car exhaust. Cosmic rays. Digesting food. Watching TV. Lightning. Viruses. Stress. It goes on forever. In fact there's nothing much you can do that won't attack your DNA somehow.
But I'm not going to live on lentils in a cupboard in the dark and smell bad. It'll all get to me eventually, just like it got to 2000 generations of my ancestors. No point in worrying. :) Still, I'd like to at least live old enough to take an interest in golf and spontaneously sing "Please release me, let me go." Oh, and not notice how seriously unfashionable turning up my trouser hems on the *outside* is.
-
The chance of getting cancer is geneticly inherited, if your family or relatives is troubled with cancer, there chance of you getting it aswell is somewhat bigger.
-
@KennyR:
The secret formula for a long life is:
1. NOT being overweight
2. Workout(an 1 hour walk may be enough) once a week for as long as you live
My Great grandmother smoked most of her life, she began when she was a teenager, and smoked till the day she died, she was 93 years old
-
KennyR wrote:
Cooking meat can make cancer causing compounds. So can burnt toast. Sunbathing will damage you. Cosmetics. Smoking. Drinking. Car exhaust. Cosmic rays. Digesting food. Watching TV. Lightning. Viruses. Stress. It goes on forever. In fact there's nothing much you can do that won't attack your DNA somehow.
But deadly in wich amount?
-
restore2003 wrote:
@KennyR:
The secret formula for a long life is:
1. NOT being overweight
2. Workout(an 1 hour walk may be enough) once a week for as long as you live
Just one hour in a week? Hm, I do a lot more, bicycling and walking and so,
still got a big belly :lol:
-
But deadly in wich amount?
75 years of it will probably kill you.
-
@speel:
Then belly pushups(dunno what its called in english really) are the excercise you need :-)
(you lay on ur back, and hands behind ur head, and push you upper body up)
argh! my explanations always stink! :-)
-
restore2003 wrote:
@speel:
Then belly pushups(dunno what its called in english really) are the excercise you need :-)
I know, I know.
But I got a huge scar on my belly and somehow I think that partially caused it.
-
And partially you having a knife in your pocket? :-o
-
Naah, I tried seppuku, but there was no one to behead me ;-)
btw, a handy means a cell phone.
-
restore2003 wrote:
@speel:
Then belly pushups(dunno what its called in english really) are the excercise you need :-)
(you lay on ur back, and hands behind ur head, and push you upper body up)
argh! my explanations always stink! :-)
Sit-ups. Punk sis does them every night, she'll end up with a six-pack if she's not careful ;-)
I think a lot of people are almost powerless to change their weight. Personally, I can't gain weight, although becoming a vegan didn't lose me any either.
-
@tgp:
If you want your music mastered, or need to add drums to your tracks, let me know :-)
-
Still, I'd like to at least live old enough to....not notice how seriously unfashionable turning up my trouser hems on the *outside* is.
i'm glad I'll be long dead before that horrible sight comes true!!!
:roflmao:
-
Magnetic fields from hairdryers damages brain cells??
Well, at least that explains blonde women... :lol:
-
Don´t drink, don´t smoke, exercise and eat only healtfood...
....and die anyway.
@KennyR
The big problem with todays food isn´t a little burnt toast, its all the preservative and coloring chemicals. I mean they even use preservatives in bread! And salmon is feed with stuff that contains certain chemicals so it´s meat gets a brigther red colour.
Not to mention that smoked meat often isn´t really smoked, it´s faked with some liquid they just spray on. And if it is smoked then its warm smoked and they often sugar it to.
It´s impossible to find a bit of real pork anymore!
If cold smoked and salted pork and ham and sausages was good enough for my ancestors it´s good enough for me!
The modern food industry doesn´t only add potentially dangerous chemicals to the food, the destroy the taste too!
-
Everything will kill you. It's just the dose you take that determines when. ;)
Anyway, I thought the last few years of sliding maturity and literacy skills of other internet users was to blame for my loss of intelligence. Damn SMS generation.
Now I find it's the radiation from my monitor. (Work with me guys, I really need more justification to get a LCD).
-
Doobrey wrote:
Magnetic fields from hairdryers damages brain cells??
Well, at least that explains blonde women... :lol:
:roflmao: Indeed it does! :roflmao:
-
Of course electro-magnetic fields (EMFs) are bad for you. I studied this about 7 years ago, and it periodically enters the news. This time, it re-entered the news because a group of protestors planted 1200 fluorescent light tubes (the kind used in offices) under power lines somewhere near Derby. And the bulbs lit up despite not being connected to any power source - it was the electro-magnetic field from the powerlines. If a person went nearer to a tube it glowed brighter. This is because electricty conducts better through humans than it does through air.
EMFs are created by all electrical devices or electrical wires. This is because electrons 'escape' from their primary conduit. It's like Niagara Falls - while most of the water is part of the current, some of it escapes in the air in spray and water vapour. So even a small electrical wire has a field around it.
Anyway, there are two dangers from EMFs.
The one commonly accepted by scientists is that because the field is negatively charged it attracts Radon gas particles, which are positively charged. Radon gas is the nucleus of a Helium molecule, and is commonly referred to as ionising alpha radiation. When you breathe this in it 'sticks' in your lungs and causes cell damage. This is thought to be a cause of leukaemia or lung cancer. Radon gas is naturally present in the air at low levels thought not be any more harmful than any other kind of radiation we encounter everyday. Although some areas have abnormally high levels - for example Cornwall - which has more of a particular kind of rock in the ground (dunno what kind).
The other danger, and the one everyone wants to deny, is whether EMFs cause any direct damage to the body. Mobile phone radiation has a similar wavelength and frequency, so obviously it's in Corporate UK's interest to buy enough studies to get it sufficiently denied. EMFs consist of free electrons moving near to the speed of light. This kind of radiation is known as ionising beta radiation. Electrons are small enough to destroy DNA cells (as well as every other kind of cell in your body). In theory, they can't travel through metal or bone - however in a strong enough field, such as one underneath a powerline, your skull won't be much use.
Everything in life destroys your DNA, even in the stone age before electricty it was the case, it's just a question of how much. Today, with computers, TVs, mobile phones, travelling in aircraft we are inside electromagnetic fields all of the time. Thankfully they aren't anywhere near the kind of levels underneath a powerline.
But there are plenty things you can do to reduce your exposure. Don't sleep with electrical devices turned on in the same room - so don't recharge your mobile phone in the same room while you're asleep (and turn it off), don't leave your TV on standby mode while you're asleep (it uses up 80% of the power as when it's turned on), get a battery powered alarm clock, try not to use a computer in your bedroom.
Most big electrical goods that produce high levels of EMFs are made out of metal - there is a reason for this - it can stop a certain amount of the field from getting through the casing. Computers are quite bad when it comes to EMFs, especially the power supply. Have you seen those fancy decorative cases? Some are made out of plastic and glass - this is useless to shield against radiation. You might as well not bother have a case at all. The other big thing is the monitor - with a conventional monitor you are sitting staring directly into an electron gun. So try not to sit too close to it. The effects are noticable - bad skin - spots.
Aircraft are quite bad too - the steel body isn't as good as 30,000 feet of atmosphere for protecting against cosmic radiation. A 30 minute flight from London to Paris is equivalent to getting an X-ray. God only knows what my liking of travelling to Australia & New Zealand complete with 26-hour flights will do to me.
The good news is that the strength of a field reduces inversely proportional to distance (1/x type thing). Sitting 6 feet from a TV and the field is probably negligble, same for a microwave. Try to sit 2-3 feet away from a computer, and make sure the tower isn't right next to your legs.
Even if you manage all that, there's still the DNA-damaging free radicals you get from processed food, pesticides they spray on fruit, and pollution. We just have to accept that our DNA cells will become damaged or mutated by radiation as a course of life.
As for legal action against the power companies, I think they should be funding research into safer ways of transporting electricity.
-
@smithy
I like your Avatar of Orville!
-
Serves us right for still using magnetic media... shudda gone Optical by now :-/
-
Everyone lay off electricity for gawd sake!! If we didn't have electricity, our lives would pretty much suck, and we'd die of other things.
Besides, with no electricity, WHAT WOULD POWER OUR AMIGAS?! ANSER! ANSWER ME DAN YOU!!!!
-
JonoPike wrote:
Besides, with no electricity, WHAT WOULD POWER OUR AMIGAS?! ANSER! ANSWER ME DAN YOU!!!!
that's exactly right!
no electricity, no porn!!!
:idea:
-
Just some corrections here, smithy.
EMFs are created by all electrical devices or electrical wires. This is because electrons 'escape' from their primary conduit.
Nice analogy but that's not how it is. Electrons themselves have a small magnetic field - electricity and magnetism are the same thing. When charge flows through a conductor (and only charge, the electrons themselves don't move), a magnetic field is generated at a perpendicular angle. Electromagnetic force itself is carried by photons, not electrons. Electrons can't penetrate out of the cable, and they're not moving along it anyway. Only their charge is.
The one commonly accepted by scientists is that because the field is negatively charged it attracts Radon gas particles, which are positively charged. Radon gas is the nucleus of a Helium molecule, and is commonly referred to as ionising alpha radiation.
You're thinking of an alpha particle. Radon is a heavy element, a noble gas in the same group as helium. It isn't charged (and isn't likely to become charged, as it has it has a huge ionisation energy), but it is radioactive, and gives off alpha radiation, the most ionising but least penetrative type. As it decays into something else the product becomes periodically charged and is attracted to magnetic fields. Radon leeches out of most igneous rocks, especially granite. Aberdeen, the "granite city" has a background radiation level twice the norm.
EMFs consist of free electrons moving near to the speed of light. This kind of radiation is known as ionising beta radiation.
They don't, they exist as photons at the speed of light. Beta radiation is totally different and can be stopped by half a millimeter of aluminium. A magnetic field is practically infinite in range and to my knowledge will "pass through" anything.
-
Anyone thinks it'd be a good idea to have a "Cecilia's health&relation corner" forum here on Aorg?
-
sorry, double post
-
Just some corrections here, smithy.
Cheers for that KennyR.. it's been 7(!) years since I did A level Physics and my memory isn't what it used to be as a 17-year old!
-
Speelgoedmannetje wrote:
Anyone thinks it'd be a good idea to have a "Cecilia's health&relation corner" forum here on Aorg?
LOL, make that "health and porn"
(OOhhh, i bet Wayne would just love that!)
:lol: :lol:
-
cecilia wrote:
Speelgoedmannetje wrote:
Anyone thinks it'd be a good idea to have a "Cecilia's health&relation corner" forum here on Aorg?
LOL, make that "health and porn"
nonono, "health" implies on a decent manner porn. And "relation" makes that being a bit more implied.
for 'tis a family oriented site eh?
-
And then there is the heating effect from mobilphones, that´s not good for your eyes, but nobody ever discuss that!