Raspberry PI

[koaftder]

I don't see the point of this thing. I'd bet money most of these will just wind up collecting dust after getting a weeks worth of being messed around with. Kids are not hurting for computers (in developed countries anyway). To the average kid, this thing will be about as interesting as a Chia Pet once the novelty wears off.

[koaftder]

Trying to teach programming to kids is a waste of time. The geek kids don't need incompetent teachers to show them the ropes and the non geek kids don't give a damn and won't get anything out of it any way. The raspberry pi doesn't change anything, and kids aren't hurting for computers anyway, they're surrounded by them.

Programming itself isn't all that particularly useful of a skill for the vast majority of people and society isn't suffering from a lack of computer programmers. The raspberry pi is a cool toy for geeks but I think it's usefulness in an educational setting for k-12 is massively overblown.

[koaftder]

Bull. Programming is a great skill to have whether or not you use it on a daily basis or in a professional context; it's an excellent key to a real understanding of computers and how they work, and the more ubiquitous computers become in every aspect of life, the more useful that understanding will be.

I agree that it's a great skill to have, but the list of great skills to have is exceedingly long and there is a limited amount of time and resources available  for instruction of k-12 kids. What makes learning how to do a few tricks in BASIC or python more important than other things such as focusing on reading proficiency, mathematics and other important things that are of much more benefit to most people in society? Programming is a very specialized skill and the vast majority of people not only have little use for it, they also loathe it with fervor. I wish I had a dollar for every friend I've had who told me they were interested in learning how to code, tried it for a while and subsequently dropped that mess on the floor.

One does not need to learn a few lame programming tricks in Python to understand how to make use of a computer. Most of the people on this forum couldn't code something as simple as Lemonaid Stand to save their life, but they surely know a lot about computers.

[koaftder]

True, but what I always liked about the very early computer experiences I had (BASIC/ LOGO type languages) was that I felt they were great at teaching logic.

And that's something that I think is equally as important as math and reading...

Whether or not you ever work in the computer industry..

desiv

In in the 80's and early 90's, they were shoveling LOGO and BASIC down kids throats. Educators don't bother with it anymore because it turned out that it wasn't very useful. The teachers had no idea what they were doing and the kids didn't get anything out of it.

[koaftder]

I agree wholeheartedly. Sadly the UK education system is becoming very workplace orientated. Too much so IMHO.

Here in the US, we have a serious problem with kids having trouble reading or doing basic math after graduating high school (if they graduate at all). Every year a higher percentage of kids find themselves rejected from the colleges because they can't meet the entrance exams. They wind up in the community colleges and spend a year or more taking prerequisite classes which yield no credits before they can even start taking college level classes.

[koaftder]

I don't agree...
I think the lessons in "logic" were much more important than they realized..

Just because they all didn't go on to work with computers, doesn't mean the education wasn't important..

But who knows..

desiv

I'm 31, and the most I ever did in k-12 was stuff like:

10 let a = 12
20 let b = 7
30 print a + b

or punch in LOGO programs from a sheet

I saw more interesting stuff in BASIC from Mr. Wizzard on TV and Compute! magazines. In the 6th grade we had to do some LOGO stuff and the teacher didn't like messing with the computers so she just took us out on the playground and made every kid a turtle and had us walk the programs out in the sand. Don't even need a computer for that kind of stuff. Anybody who ever played a board game or knitted a scarf has done more logic than what a school child will ever see in a classroom. Kids will learn more about logic in a math class than they'll ever get in a few stupid programming tricks lessons in computer lab.

[koaftder]

You're wrong. What most kids learn from maths classes is how to repetitively apply rules about arithmetic manipulation, so that it's more about having a good memory than about thinking creatively.

That's bs. You obviously have no idea what's going on k-12 math classes. (that covers a *lot* of territory)

Programming seems much better placed to teach you how to think for yourself to solve problems.

Only if you can wrap your mind around it. Most people can't, mainly due to laziness and lack of interest. Even most people who call themselves programmers are woefully incompetent and fail at solving basic problems.

Besides, programming is basically 'applied mathematics' in many ways

I agree.
 

especially when you get past the initial stages.

That takes genuine interest, perseverance and lots of time, something most people lack.

Mathematics is an important subject, but to state computer programming offers little to the kids that learn it conveys a hefty level of ignorance.

Given that programming was dumped on little kids in the 80's and early 90's and didn't yield useful results, I think it's ignorant to think it would a second time around. Programming classes make sense for high school electives, but anything more is just a waste of time. That's why elementary and middle schools don't really bother with it anymore.