OS4 rollout schedule

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Wayne wrote:
Perhaps after July 5th on the classic PPC accelerated Amiga.  I still put money on 2004 before it's available on the AmigaOne.

You always were the optimist  :-D

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HyperionMP wrote:
I'm sure you have heard of the Draco?

Frankly, to get OS 4 to run on a chipsetless system is really not that much of a problem.

Otherwise things like Amithlon and the Draco could never have existed.

Go on then, I dare ya!!!!  :-D  :-D   :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D

-Edit- Easy eh? lets see AOS4 on a Peg then... now I double dare ya!!!  :-o


Question: How much of OS4 has been written? From what I can gather only exec and maybe dos and intuition have been "ported" to the PPC... at what point does this become an OS one asks? The implication is that the original AmigaOS is required to boot and provide a significant amount of functionality... if this is the case then quite a bit more work will be required to make the A1 boot.
Note: This is a genuine question not flame bait.

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Terminills wrote:
@Bloodline

wouldn't only the chipset bashing parts need to be rewritten?  That and the 68K emu.  ... Just an assumption but that would be my guess.  as I'm not much of a programmer nor have I seen the source I wouldn't have a clue. Just a guess.

Well, if they wanted to use the original OS to boot the A1, the A1 would have to look like an Amiga... that would mean getting a 68kemulator and some CIA emulation etc... not worth it...

And if the only parts of OS4 which are PPC are just a few core libraries It is going to take quite a bit of work to get them to boot an A1, quite a bit of missing functionality, there...


Still, I don't know, and they haven't told me so we will have to wait and see.

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zacman wrote:
>Since the OS4 introduction tour ends on July 5,
>2003, I suppose we won't see the official
>introduction until after July 5, 2003, Any comments?

Juergen Schober said in the interview made by
AmigaArena that it is planned for July 5th to show
the first version of OS4 with a native version of
intuition.library.

He also said that OS4 will be released end of
summer for CybPPC and end of the year for the
AmigaOne (maybe an early preview version of OS4
for AmigaOne at the end of September/early October
at the OASE fair).

given the amount of work required to make a PPC native AmigaOS (believe me, just look at AROS...) I would say end of this year and beinging of next is a good guess for an A1 release date.

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You skillfully avoided my Question about the OS, there Ben (you could be a politician). Ok fine I imagine there are some things you don't want to talk about. We wil let the individual make his/her own conclusions then.

But this Licence argument is stupid.

You make a product (costs you money)... you sell this product (makes you money)... so why would you consider limiting your market (reducing possible income)?

Unless there is some ultra sick hardcore deal going on (read sums of money) between you and Eyetech, your position just seems to be one of a spoilt little child.

Frankly, I don't care if we ever see OS4 legally running on a Pegasos. But I don't understand your position, and it is things like this in the Amiga Market that seriously wind me up.

The only other reason I can see for this stance is that you don't have enough faith in OS4 to put it head to head against the Free MOS and AROS on the Peg?

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HyperionMP wrote:

bloodline wrote:
You skillfully avoided my Question about the OS, there Ben (you could be a politician). Ok fine I imagine there are some things you don't want to talk about. We wil let the individual make his/her own conclusions then.

I did?

You mean this question:

"Question: How much of OS4 has been written? From what I can gather only exec and maybe dos and intuition have been "ported" to the PPC... at what point does this become an OS one asks? The implication is that the original AmigaOS is required to boot and provide a significant amount of functionality... if this is the case then quite a bit more work will be required to make the A1 boot. "


I had hoped that my subsequent posts would have cleared up the misconceptions underlying your question.

OS 4 has an inbuilt emulation layer and the difference between 68K and PPC code is minimal.

There is no sandbox involved.

As a result, you cannot distinguish between OS 4 in its current status (with quite a number of modules still in 68K but very few original 3.1/3.5/3.9 modules) and its final status (with those same modules recompiled for PPC).

The only difference is speed, not functionality.

I quite frankly don't have a clue as to what this has to do with booting on the AmigaOne other than that the devices need to be reimplemented, an issue which I discussed already quite extensively.

Ok, fair point. I did not mean to discredit you or the tremedous effort that is going into AOS4.

My point was, AOS4 needs AOS3.1(?) to boot the Amiga and then the new subsystems come into play.

That's fine, if you recal that's exactly how the old Amiga version of AROS functioned.

Now that's fine and good, and is a great way to boot up the old Cyberstorm.
My question was relating to exactly how much of AOS4 has been written, and that my point was from what I can tell, a serious amount of work will be required before enough of AOS4 is PCC to allow it to boot the A1, regardless of the "68K emulation" (which would have to be started very early if you want to use 68k subsystems to boot the machine).

Again this is not an attack on either you or Hyperion but simply an observation. I would also appreciate that you probably can't and don't want to answer that. I will not hold that against you.

PS. I'd like to keep AROS out of this, as these are my personal observations and have nothing to do with AROS (for a change :-D ) :-)

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Tickly wrote:

My point was, AOS4 needs AOS3.1(?) to boot the Amiga and then the new subsystems come into play.

No it doesn't. Thats a strange conclusion. OS4 is based on OS3.1 sources, and some parts of those won't be changed, but that doesn't mean it NEEDS OS3.1 to boot the Amiga. Thats like saying Photoshop 7 needs Photoshop 6 to start up, then 7 takes over, because they took the Photoshop 6 code and updated it. Its simply not true; Photoshop 7 is just Photoshop 7. OS4 is just OS4.

ok... bad turn of phrase... but you're a clever bloke you must know what I was saying....

anyway, I'm a little bored of this thread now  :-D and since I have no intention of bashing AOS4 or Hyperion, I'm gonna leave this alone :-P

-Edit- I'm sure everything is on Schedule and Rockin'  :-)

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So when I buy myself an A1 I get AOS4 for free? cool... that clears that up.

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jd997uk wrote:
@Desolator

Ehm, Am I the only one here that is actually happy that we GET an OS4 at all?

Nope. But as you can see, the FACT that Hyperion actually have done something that has been shown, has got certain people rattled. OK, the OS has not FULLY got to a releaseable state, but Hyperion (and their co-programmers) are reaching the final lap (so to speak).
The closer they get, the more the 'noise to truth' ratio will change. Those with agenda's outside of OS4 will raise their volume, in order to (fruitlessly) try and take emphasis away from their efforts.

@anyone

Why, BTW, are so many people clamouring for OS4 to be released on a Pegasos? Surely, if MOS is so good, another "technically inferior" OS would not be needed? Or are the 'powers that be' who are central to the marketing the MOS/Pegasos efforts, worried that that it's their product that will be shown to be the technically inferior one?

Just a passing thought................

 :-P  :-P

-john

"Technically inferior" is a stupid statement (Both solutions have their own merits and limitations)... But some people, myself included, liek choice... Why do I like having a Multiboot machine at home? So I can run a technically inferior OS?

I like Choice... I want Choice... Give me choice.  please  ;-)

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Elektro wrote:
How many people want OS4 on peg anyway? Must be only a few...

How many want an Amigoid at all? Must be only a f.... :-)

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Elektro wrote:
Amigoid?

Sorry that should be Amigoid (TM) :-)

Basicly:
Amiga+ AmigaOS
AROS
Pegasos + MOS
AmigaOS4 + AmigaONE

It's my  expression, and this is how I use it.  :-P

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CodeSmith wrote:
@TMHG:
I agree with pretty much all you're saying, I think that AmigaOS4 on the Peg would be a Good Thing (tm).  I also think that a port to the Peg 1 at least should not be too hard (Peg 2 could be a completely different beast though).  The biggest problem is one of licensing.  If Hyperion sells OS4 for the Peg, they will be in breach of contract with AInc, who says that they are only allowed to sell OS4 to ppl who signed up for a license.  I think that BenH probably wants to sell as many copies of OS4 as possible, but I doubt he'll willingly breach his contract to do so.

If I was Hyperion I would go for it (Though I know they have their reasons expalined earlier in this tread).
As for a contract with A Inc., I imagine that's worth only slightly less than my Toilet paper (used). :-P

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As flattering as that is, I'm sure even Hyperion would disagree with you there. Hyperion needed Amiga Inc. to provide the AOS 3.1 source. Hyperion needed Eyetech to produce the hardware AOS 4 would run on.

Nah, Hyperion are welcome to use AROS code if they need it (just as long as they stick to the licence :-D ), and Genesi would be happy to provide the Hardware.

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HyperionMP wrote:
You are obviously not familiar with the cuurent state of AROS.

One of the main problems is that they are shooting for 3.1 compatibility whilst we were aiming for 3.9.

Moreover, some of the AROS work is not entirely compatible with OS 3.1. DOS and Intuition come to mind.

Well intuition isn't too bad, MOS have helped us make it compatible, but yes our DOS library is really incompatibile becuase we didn't want to implement that nasty Tripos packet stuff, wrappers exist though.

3.9... wouldn't really be much not than adding a few function here and there (I only know of a few functions that were added in Exec..., which we do plan to implement), maybe you didn't want to implemtn these features and then be bound to the licence and allow AROS to gain that functionality? But that is just a possibility ;-)

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Warface wrote:
Mind you, a new conspiracy theory forms in my head.

Is it possible that those favoured the Imperial side in Star Wars went for the Pegasos, and those who favoured the Rebels for OS4? :-)

I must confess I was a fan of Darth Vader :-)

Yeah, long live the imperial Army... Black is way sexier than white :-)