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Offline Glaucus

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Re: To all Window users
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2004, 02:37:35 AM »
Quote

mikeymike wrote:
ZoneAlarm is a gaping security hole.  
huh?!? Why do you say that?!?

  - Mike
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Offline legion

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Re: To all Window users
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2004, 05:59:01 AM »
Because he's right.  Unless you buy the pro version, which is slightly better.  But then again, software firewalls will always be inferior to hardware firewalls.  If your only option is software, however, I suggest Tiny personal firewall.


IE?  Who uses that anymore? :laugh:


Go download FireFox.  Now.

EDIT:  looks like Tiny took the free version off their website, and googling for it didn't produce anything.  If anybody wants to try it out, PM me.  The installer is about 2 megs.  
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Offline weirdami

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Re: To all Window users
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2004, 06:04:00 AM »
@blobrana

Why post something you can't read without having the password (without mentioning that fact)? Howsabout you just tell us what the hole is. :-(
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Offline Glaucus

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Re: To all Window users
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2004, 07:08:27 AM »
Quote
Because he's right. Unless you buy the pro version, which is slightly better. But then again, software firewalls will always be inferior to hardware firewalls. If your only option is software, however, I suggest Tiny personal firewall.
No offense, but I was hoping for a more technical response then that.

And as for hardware/software firewalls, they're all the same really. I mean, my router has a "hardware" firewall, but really all it is is a tiny computer with firewall software on it's firmware. It's still software, it's just burned onto an EPROM. What's the diff?!? And "hardware" firewalls like the ones found on routers will not be able to stop spyware from phoning home on randomly selected ports. In fact, this is the main reason I run ZA Pro as I'm already behind my router's firewall and I use ZA to stop any unwanted outgoing traffic.

Now, unless you can point some technical flaws in ZA that could allow hackers in through some back door, then I don't see where you're comming from.

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Offline Ilwrath

Re: To all Window users
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2004, 07:36:44 AM »
I agree with Glaucus.  Point me to something specifically wrong with Zone Alarm from a home user's perspective.  I mean, it is true that ZA is only as good as you configure it.  This is true of ANY firewall, though.  (Allowing all ports or all applications that ask for internet access to HAVE internet access isn't really very secure.)  

What ZA does (restrict programs, and notify programs attempting outward access) it seems to do very well.  Unless there's something we're missing here?

The truth is, I, myself, run Kerio Personal Firewall (aka Tiny Personal Firewall) because I like the fine-grained control over port ranges, etc...  But for your average user (my mom, cousin, aunt, etc.) I've always recommended ZoneAlarm.  As long as you give it some sane settings, it seems to be quite secure...?
 

Offline Animagic

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Re: To all Window users
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2004, 09:02:24 AM »
Quote

sumner7 wrote:
Quote

blobrana wrote:
Hum, i can`t really post this on the front page, but it may be of use to those WinUAE users ;)

M$ advises IE Explorer 5.x or IE 4.X users to upgrade immediately...Due to that source leaked.

Microsoft is advising customers to move onto IE6 Service Pack 1 and more recent patches ...

Did`t take them long , did it ...
(the hackers)





The only place you will find WinUAE users is in the UNITED ARAB EMIRATES!!! :lol:


Although I use WinUAE everyday, I don't remember being in the UNITED ARAB EMIRATES !!! :huh:
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Offline Ilwrath

Re: To all Window users
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2004, 09:36:44 AM »
c'mon.... humor, people!!!  searches for UAE files often return results for United Arab Emirates, instead of our files for our favorite Universal Amiga Emulator.  ;-)
 

Offline ami500

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Re: To all Window users
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2004, 10:05:21 AM »
Zone alarm pro:

Unexplained 100% CPU usage.

Kills all network traffic when disabled.

Not able to be uninstalled cleanly.

There's a few for you all. ;) Mind you, they may have fixed that by now, but I havn't touched ZA for a long time.

Have a look at Agnitum outpost pro instead. :)
 

Offline Ilwrath

Re: To all Window users
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2004, 10:40:42 AM »
Quote
Unexplained 100% CPU usage.

Not seen this, personally, but have heard of it occasionally happening.  Of course, Win32 apps do this all the time.  Surely it happens less often than say...  EXPLORER.EXE?

Quote
Kills all network traffic when disabled.

Uhm.... is that not the point?  If a renegade app could just kill ZA and then connect, ZA wouldn't be a very effective firewall, would it?  Stopping all traffic while disabled is the proper behavior, is it not?

Quote
Not able to be uninstalled cleanly.

Not encountered this problem, either, but it's really more of a Windows issue than a ZA issue.  Windows too easily loses track of it's DLLs and settings.  For example, I just had an issue with a certain popular video editing program's uninstaller....  The program had installed some new codecs.   Uninstalling the app broke not only the program's codecs, but also my standard Windows ones.  It wouldn't surprise me if ZA tramples a few DLLs associated with TCP/IP, such that it breaks a few things on it's uninstall.  I blame Windows for making it so damn easy for apps to do this.... I'd be surprised if Agnitum outpost pro uninstalls cleanly, as well...  ;-)

Really, the comments posted so far are problems common to all Windows apps.  IF you know of a SPECIFIC SECURITY problem, please let me know, as most of my family runs this.    

But, really, the ones posted above don't have much more weight than complaints about the ugly-ass brown interface....
 

Offline blobranaTopic starter

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Re: To all Window users
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2004, 12:00:07 PM »
@weirdami

Er, too slow....

Why post something you can't read without having the password (without mentioning that fact)? Howsabout you just tell us what the hole is.


Sry, about that, the site was open when i posted... But it was a bit dodgy, in that you could patch/upgrade to the higher version without paying the subscription...A bit of a gray area...(er, or piracy...)


URL name reduced in size by mikeymike

- URL name edited by mikeymike, was causing page width to go bonkers -

Will explain the `broken` bits...



Disclaimer:
I know what i`m  doing...

Offline mikeymike

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Re: To all Window users
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2004, 12:14:00 PM »
Quote

Glaucus wrote:
Quote

mikeymike wrote:
ZoneAlarm is a gaping security hole.  
huh?!? Why do you say that?!?


It has been victim to some of the most trivial and obvious exploits (that even I could exploit, and I have no programming skills or s'kiddie tools).

Perhaps you ought to read up on your preferred security tool before putting your trust in it.  www.securityfocus.com might be a good first stop, though googling for zonealarm vulnerabilities might also help.


It is a poor product.

My favourite of the vulnerabilities I read about it was one that, if an attacker attacked the system 'more than 200 times' (which is just a simple single port scan), zonealarm would crash, and the vulnerability allowed insertion of code into the memory space, which means an attacker could run any program they wanted.

Ok, so no program is perfect, but this is silly.  It's like the zillion vulnerabilities in Outlook/Express regarding file extensions, adding double of triple extensions on the end of attachments, and they'd walk straight past attachment security.  A firewall should be able to handle a port scan.  It is not a firewall otherwise.  It's a great big sign saying "NEWBIE HERE! TAKE OVER MY SYSTEM!".

Although the most amusing app for even the least knowledgable 'hacker' is Miribalis ICQ.  I must have remotely crashed that app about 20 times using different methods, sometimes trashing its local ICQ database in the process.  (I did this in a test environment btw - my job required testing Internet-talking apps a good deal more than others).

The only Windows firewall I've tried that seems to be half-decent, while not carrying along the kitchen sink is 8Signs Firewall.  Although I haven't finished testing it yet.
 

Offline amigamad

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Re: To all Window users
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2004, 04:54:05 PM »
Quote
The only Windows firewall I've tried that seems to be half-decent, while not carrying along the kitchen sink is 8Signs Firewall. Although I haven't finished testing it yet.


So have you tested sygate pro or personal if so how good did you find it. :-)
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Offline sir_inferno

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Re: To all Window users
« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2004, 05:40:17 PM »
Quote

Glaucus wrote:
Quote
Because he's right. Unless you buy the pro version, which is slightly better. But then again, software firewalls will always be inferior to hardware firewalls. If your only option is software, however, I suggest Tiny personal firewall.
No offense, but I was hoping for a more technical response then that.

And as for hardware/software firewalls, they're all the same really. I mean, my router has a "hardware" firewall, but really all it is is a tiny computer with firewall software on it's firmware. It's still software, it's just burned onto an EPROM. What's the diff?!? Now, unless you can point some technical flaws in ZA that could allow hackers in through some back door, then I don't see where you're comming from.

  - Mike



no1 knows specific ones apart from people who've studied the code and hackers. although i made my own trojan just to test which is the best firewall, and in my study's...


/me hides and uses a remote microphone


...i found that windows xp built in firewall, and hardware firewalls turn out the best.

hardware firewalls are the same, however you have to pay "bare" amounts for them, therefore the software that is changed into hardware must be refined. it also allows greater control, irrelevant of OS, which means windows can't escape it  :-)


Quote

GreggBz wrote:
Right, Right, IE is horrible compaired to netscape.
In defense of MS$ you know they get picked on a lot.
If the hackers poured an equal effort into destroying debian Linux you would have a "very un-secure" operating system in debian linux.


oh please. they NEED linux to hack in the first place!

everyone knows that ip changers, trojans, remote access, DoS attacks, etc only work properly in linux. and not feeble attempts made in *chuckle* visual basic  :-)
 

Offline weirdami

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Re: To all Window users
« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2004, 05:50:09 PM »
Zone Alarm is the bee's knees. There just happens to have been some small thing found wrong with it that has been corrected. "Small" because, as that prognosisx page says, it's only a problem for people who are using it in a manner not recommended by Zone Labs.

When all those other firewalls that some of you are pushing finally get enough exposure to cause people to start thinking it worthwhile to look for security holes, you'll be on the other side of this. Let's keep the bashing to M$ products, shall we. :-)

Anyway, the hole has been fixed. Why even bring it up?
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Offline cecilia

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Re: To all Window users
« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2004, 06:09:13 PM »
I am no fan of windows or microBrog. but I have to have windows 2000 to run AE and get online. a friend of mine (basically an IT guy) suggested using zonealarm and I've had version 3.1.395 all this past year. I have it set up to allow NOTHING to go in or out without my permission.
That is easily done in the GUI.
I never use Outlook or any other mail program. And I use Opera.
I have never had a virus, and I am paranoid about installing ANYTHING on my system.
I also use SpyBot. I used it to remove about 14 cookies (which were not dangerous, just dumb) and have not had any new ones since.

If one is careful, then one is as safe as possible. needless to say i never open mail attachments. they stay on the servers and get deleted there.

thanks for the link, mike.  :-)
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Offline mikeymike

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Re: To all Window users
« Reply #29 from previous page: March 04, 2004, 07:02:02 PM »
Quote
Anyway, the hole has been fixed. Why even bring it up?


/me shakes his head...

Right.  Go to www.securityfocus.com and search for the number of issues about ZoneAlarm in the past.

And AFAIK no other firewall has been quite so lame as to not withstand a portscan.  It's like the first thing anyone would do to try and get into your system.  Consider also that firewalls have been around a lot longer than ZoneAlarm, it's not like ZA is doing anything cutting-edge.  If they can't even cater for something so basic as that, then the rest of their code is likely to be very scary indeed.

ZoneAlarm was not anywhere the first on the market.  There are tonnes of other firewalls available out there, hardware or software ones, which have been around longer than ZA.  None have vulnerabilities as embarrassing as ZA's.

Ask anyone who knows anything about computer systems security whether they think ZA is any good, and they'll laugh.  Like this: :roflmao:

Your system's first line of defence needs to be a good one.  The worst thing that can happen is for the first line of defence to be the cause of a system compromise.