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Author Topic: Do you have military grade chips in your Amiga?  (Read 11669 times)

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Offline DoomMasterTopic starter

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Re: Do you have military grade chips in your Amiga?
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2003, 09:10:48 AM »
To Lo:

There are 4 military spec Amiga custom chips on eBay right now.  Go have a look.     :-D
[color=FF0033]1 Amiga 2500 / 040, 2 Amiga 2000HDs, Atari Mega4 ST, Pentium 4 PC, Macintosh SE[/color]
 

Offline N7VQM

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Re: Do you have military grade chips in your Amiga?
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2003, 10:13:43 AM »
Quote

DoomMaster wrote:
There are 4 military spec Amiga custom chips on eBay right now.  Go have a look.     :-D


Are you refering to these?
Agnus
Denise
Paula
8520

If so, then I HIGHLY doubt these are MIL-SPEC parts.  It's much more likely they are in a cer-dip package simply because they have high power disipation like the good old VIC in my C64.  Why go through all the trouble of designing a part that can operate from -55C to +125C when the part will never be subjected to these extreams?

You have to remember that these chips where designed and built in the early eighties.  They had alot of transistors in them for the time.

Too bad locating a datasheet for these components is neigh on impossible.  Anybody have the foggiest clue where one might be sourced?
\\"...an error of 1 is much less significant in counting the population of the Earth than in counting the occupants of a phone booth.\\" - Michael T. Heath, Scientific Computing...
 

Offline iamaboringperson

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Re: Do you have military grade chips in your Amiga?
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2003, 10:38:01 AM »
Quote

N7VQM wrote:
Quote

DoomMaster wrote:
There are 4 military spec Amiga custom chips on eBay right now.  Go have a look.     :-D


Are you refering to these?
Agnus
Denise
Paula
8520

If so, then I HIGHLY doubt these are MIL-SPEC parts.  It's much more likely they are in a cer-dip package simply because they have high power disipation like the good old VIC in my C64.  Why go through all the trouble of designing a part that can operate from -55C to +125C when the part will never be subjected to these extreams?

You have to remember that these chips where designed and built in the early eighties.  They had alot of transistors in them for the time.

Too bad locating a datasheet for these components is neigh on impossible.  Anybody have the foggiest clue where one might be sourced?

Yes!! YES!!!
:-D
 

Offline levelLORD

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Re: Do you have military grade chips in your Amiga?
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2003, 10:42:32 AM »
OK, I took a quick look for the first bidder and he's claiming this: 'RARE Ceramic MOS 8361- Agnus in AMIGA Systems'

After that, I searched the web and find out that MOS 8361R3 is not an Agnus, actually.

http://home.hccnet.nl/g.baltissen/partnum.htm

http://www.softwolves.pp.se/misc/arkiv/cbm-hackers/3/3487.html

There is no description or something else, but Agnus is, according to this two sites, part #8371

Well, that's it, nothing more to say, later,

levelLORD
 

Offline huronking

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Re: Do you have military grade chips in your Amiga?
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2003, 10:56:37 AM »
No mil-spec ICs here, but I am looking for a girl with a
Kevlar-reinforced bra.
 

Offline Floid

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Re: Do you have military grade chips in your Amiga?
« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2003, 11:04:17 AM »
Quote

DonnyEMU wrote:
LOL I have an old Amiga 1000 myself and i am not sure that what you are describing constitutes millitary grade chips, from what I understand from the Amiga launch in NYC, any chips in original A1000s are there because C=MOS didn't make them.


Someone wanted pictures of the *supposed* "mil-spec" chips; well, here's the girls (and Gary?  My mind is going)... in our own archive.  http://amiga.org/gallery/photo.php?lid=908.

Looks like it might say MOS up top, though that doesn't mean much, since foundries seem to have always let the client's brand take precedence.  (As you can see in the AGA machines with the HP chips, at some point Commodore decided not to care.)

Quote
Please someone tell me if I am wrong. I can tell you this I don't believe these were millitary "grade" chips because I saw a lot of Amiga 1000's with their CIA chips go bad.. Mostly because people did stupid things like plugging things in and out when they shouldn't have.
Y'know.. it's been a long time since I've had to care, but I could swear "MIL-SPEC" is self-audited somehow, or just applies more to paperwork-shuffling than any particular capabilities (after all, the military has to certify practically every nut and bolt, which basically just means they need a degree of documentation on it)...  I'm sure there's plenty of "MIL-SPEC" hardware that can still be killed by shorting a connector improperly, though any regulations around the whole program probably try to prevent that.

http://www.dsp.dla.mil/ seems to be the group responsible for... everything related, though it's not like they have an obvious FAQ for what "MIL-SPEC" (versus any of the thousand other terms, specific certifications, etc) means.

Anyone who's been in the .mil want to hook us up?  Is it as BS/general a term as I think it is? ;)
 

Offline iamaboringperson

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Re: Do you have military grade chips in your Amiga?
« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2003, 11:06:20 AM »
Quote

huronking wrote:
No mil-spec ICs here, but I am looking for a girl with a
Kevlar-reinforced bra.

Just make sure you wont need an industrial strength condom! ;-)
 

Offline Floid

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Re: Do you have military grade chips in your Amiga?
« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2003, 11:11:48 AM »
Quote

Floid wrote:
Anyone who's been in the .mil want to hook us up?  Is it as BS/general a term as I think it is? ;)

Er, and implied from there, that Moto and Commodore could easily have had it on *any* chips they produced, whatever the packaging, radiation-hardness, whatever?  (The military has plenty of regular *offices,* I'm sure there also exist 'MIL-SPEC' pencils and staple removers...)

There are certifications for security, combat-hardness, and so forth, but those are *specific* certifications, with confusing names and numbers of their own.  And I'm sure even the stock 'consumer-grade' 680x0s must've met a few of them... Y'know -- and I'm just pulling this out of my butt here -- "DoD Standard 12345678-XY; Requirements for Complementary Metal Oxide Semiconductor Devices for Unclassified Document Processing Systems" or something.  :-D

Then things, 'certified' or not, get standard requisitioning product codes, for classification at auction and such...  From probing the .mil auction sites a while back, I know they have them for things like "Bucket, unspecified, plastic," or even "Cow."
 

Offline iamaboringperson

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Re: Do you have military grade chips in your Amiga?
« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2003, 11:12:06 AM »
Actually, my '030 CPU and it's FPU have ceramic housings.

And now that I think of it, a #### load of pentiums and 486 have ceramic housing also.
Mil-Spec? bullshit!
 

Offline browny

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Re: Do you have military grade chips in your Amiga?
« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2003, 11:19:59 AM »
@ Doomaster, get you in that `Kevlar` covered helmet, we know why you want them chips, its start of  your  big plan aka   "I want to Rule  the WORLD ! ".
MUGRAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
as we say in brum \\"yow allright mate\\"
 

Offline Floid

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Re: Do you have military grade chips in your Amiga?
« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2003, 11:20:09 AM »
Quote

levelLORD wrote:
OK, I took a quick look for the first bidder and he's claiming this: 'RARE Ceramic MOS 8361- Agnus in AMIGA Systems'

After that, I searched the web and find out that MOS 8361R3 is not an Agnus, actually.


Sheesh.  As we should all know, Agnus went through only, what, a billion revisions?  A quick Google for "MOS 8361" (not in quotes when I threw it in the engine, should you care to replicate), shows that the 8361 did ship in some 1000s -- it was doubtless one of the original, "thin" iterations.
 

Offline Linchpin

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Re: Do you have military grade chips in your Amiga?
« Reply #40 on: September 11, 2003, 01:34:25 PM »
My chips are McCain oven variety. Smells good when i multitask.
WinUAE Only... OS3.9 with 512mb ZIII ram ;)
 

Offline vortexau

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Re: Do you have military grade chips in your Amiga?
« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2003, 01:53:33 PM »
Actually, the rarest Amiga ICs of all are really[/i] weird!

Y'see, in the years before Earth-manufactured ICs existed, personel at the US Army's Foreign Technology Division "seeded" various artifacts out to certain US Industrial combines which had high-level clearances.

One type of artifact was a "thin, two-inch-around matte gray oyster cracker-shaped wafers of a material that looked like plastic but had tiny road maps of wires barely raised/etched along the surface. They were the size of a twenty-five cent piece, but the etchings on the surface were suggestive of squashed insects with their hundred legs spread out at right angles from a flat body. Some were more rounded or elliptical. It was a circuit -- anyone could figure that out by 1961, especially when it was placed under a magnifying glass -- but from the way these wafers were stacked on each other, this was circuitry unlike any anyone had ever seen."

In that era, there wasn't any suitable high-complexity circuits to test THESE with!

In the mid-eighties that all changed! High-clearance Personel observed the Lorraine protype at the 1994 Winter CES and saw that here was a design that might be able to do justice to their requirements.

So they approached Commodore and various software & hardware engineers were sworne-in.

From then, up until the last of the Kickstart 1.2 units left assembly, various batches had disguised outsider ICs installed. THESE can be identified if they are prised from their sockets and turned over. An elliptical matte gray oyster is discernable inside the rectangular over-shell.

The US Army had packaged units, which included these cammoflarged ICs, delivered to their labs where 1 unit in 10 underwent evaluation-testing. After being tested, each unit was re-sealed in its Commodore packageing. Test results indicated that these SPECIAL ICs were approximately 15-18 years in advance of ordinary 1985 designs! Documents were issued that THESE Test Amigas were to be locked-away until early in the Twenty-First Century, when the computers in which they were mounted would be obsolete, and unlikely to be held in any regard by members of the public-at-large!

HEY RED! They're NOT here! :-D  
-vortexau; who\\\'s still waiting! (-for AmigaOS4! ;-) )
savage Ami bridge parody
 

Offline minator

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Re: Do you have military grade chips in your Amiga?
« Reply #42 on: September 11, 2003, 02:45:33 PM »
&hlI have a couple of these just here.
and no, I'm not selling them, sorry :-/

There's an 8361 but it's only plastic.

There's some stuff on the different revisions here.
 

Offline Stedy

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Re: Do you have military grade chips in your Amiga?
« Reply #43 on: September 11, 2003, 10:03:09 PM »
I need a good laugh!

I have pulled chips from commercial equipment that has a cermaic case, it is good for heat dissipation.

A fewl facts about military equipment. The chips are never socketed! Apply 1 G of force and you have many chips loose inside the case. The PCBs will have heat guides/strips to cool the system and strengthen the PCB. You can not bend a high rel PCB.

What is the fascination with military chips?
Most military parts are very old (but tried and tested) technology.

Until the next time.  :-P
 

Offline Argo

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Re: Do you have military grade chips in your Amiga?
« Reply #44 from previous page: September 11, 2003, 10:50:54 PM »
Hey, Guys. How about keeping it on topic?