Gold 2.7 release for the Vampire accelerators

[kolla]

This has happened on every platform (from C64 to x64) I've coded on and why in Windows I now use "decimal" instead of floats or doubles...

And when you say "in Windows", you mean .NET, right?

How various floats are defined vary with the languages used, how the various languages used on Amiga will deal with this when running on AC68080 is anyone's guess I suppose. Is there even a way for software to know whether they are running on a "full" AC68080 FPU or just the limited, stripped down variant in the current Vampire boards? Is it clear exactly what kind of accuracy the Apollo Core FPU for V2 Vampires is operating with? I have only seen guesses by various programmers (alb42), the information on the "official sites" do not offer much insight. Is the current FPU implementation "done deal", or will it be improved upon further (aside from straight out bugs)?

In any case, we don't have the luxury of a thriving and active developer community on the Amiga, let alone commercial support from Microsoft and the like. What we have is a library of legacy software for which the source code mostly is lost or not available for legal /copyright reasons. And even when sources are available, porting them to current toolchains can quickly be a daunting task in itself.

[kolla]

One way or another, this is a pretty mood discussion.

:lol:

I suppose you meant "moot", but "mood" does fit perfectly too :laughing:

[kolla]

Yes, there are two aspects here - there is the technical aspect, and that is all fun and interesting - but then there is the user experience. My examples above are super simple, they demonstrate that Jon "most user" Doe on a Vampire system will face strange formatting issues when he sets up a simple spreadsheet for his shopping list. On the other hand he can instead render a teapot with LightWave (which, if you had suggested doing that on Amiga one year ago now, you would be labeled insane by the Apollo Team following).

[kolla]

all that ever comes out of you is pure negativity.

Not pure, Just 99.999999999998603 % negative, for some strange reason.

Btw, now that it is clear that Tuko is the person behind ApolloOS - is he part of the Apollo Team or is he not? He has labeled himself "Apollo Team" on EAB for example - how was it about ApolloOS _not_ being officially made, endorsed or supported by the team, but rather by some "rabid enthusiast"? I see the kickstarts that comes with cores are pretty much OS3.9 kickstarts, including bits and pieces like the latest shell update from ThoR and more.

As someone who owns two Vampire cards, I want to know the distribution rights and licenses for the software that I have download along with the core updates - is the content of the kickstart exclusively licensed to the Apollo Team? If so, where is the statement from the copyright owners about this? The websites are totally silent, both Tuko's http://www.apollo-accelerators.com and Gunnar's apollo-core.com - the changelog (http://www.apollo-accelerators.com/files/ChangeLog) says nothing.

If there wasn't so much BS surrounding the entire Apollo Core project, there wouldn't be any reason to be stir the pond, but the way the team operates, it is very hard to not raise a few questions - questions that no-one seems willing to answer properly to settle any doubts.

[kolla]

@Neuf

You dont have to use Coffin OS with your Vampire.

This is not about "Coffin", this is about the kickstart that comes with the core files that they release.

Some of us stick with the original AOS3.1, selfmodified with addons, like everyone has done since the 90s.
Some use other versions, lncluding purchased Vesalia 3.9's.

It is not "original AOS3.1" when you boot from a "3.10" kickstart with updated shell and whatnot from OS3.9.

And some use AROS.

Which is bootstrapped on its own, from AmigaOS.

Basically you would run the Vampire like you did/do with your current legacy hardware, just faster.

Provided your legacy hardware has a "homebrew" 3.9 kickstart on an EPROM.

[kolla]

Kolla, what's wrong with you? This is my text. How come you care about copyright lately?

I don't care about copyrights, I care about Apollo Team getting a free card while others get sent cease and desist letters if they put AmigaOS "distros" up for download, let alone commercially sell hardware products with "illegal" software loaded on them. Either Apollo Team have to abide by the same rules as everyone else, or EVERYONE (and their dogs too) get freedom to ship kickstarts and OS distros as they see fit.

[kolla]

And I ask again - on so many occasions and in media, podcasts etc, it has been stated over and over the "ApolloOS" (today "Coffin") is not at all done by "the team", but some "anonymous enthusiast". So it turns out that this "anonymous enthusiast" is actually Renaud "TuKo" Schweingruber, whos associations with "the team" is so close that he on several sites talks and acts on behalf of them, has "Apollo Team" on his profile and all. He is also the guy who seems to run http://www.apollo-accelerators.com (according to whois-info, he owns the domain), which is the site from where one orders cards and download cores. How this is "not by the team" is becoming irrelevant. When users come with problems on the apollo-core site, among the first questions they get from "the team" is what version of ApolloOS, and if it isn't, they suggest try with ApolloOS - especially for "new users and people who have not used Amiga maybe since 1.x days" - this while also maintaining a rumour that "oh, but all vampire owners already bought OS3.9 years ago". Some people are more equal than others, I suppose.

[kolla]

Most users do not want to go down that road and just want to get up and go fast, Coffin offers this.

Isn't one of the strongholds of AmigaOS that is it supposedly is so much simpler, easier and more elegant than say... Windows, Mac and Linux etc?

Apparently not.

In my view "most users" is nothing but a myth, a sorry excuse that developers and programmers use when they have nothing else tangible to say.

Now the question is can there be a legitimate way to offer users the same as with coffin/Apollo OS whatever.
For starters i would be very happy to pay for such a product saves me a ton of work!

Maybe one should think of this _before_ shipping and offering downloads??
Oh, but you did, and decided to ignore it all.

[kolla]

3.9 kickstarts? 3.9 kickstarts do not exist or you are changing history now

You know perfectly well what I mean - Apollo Core  comes with a 3.10 kickstart even. Do they exist?

[kolla]

Where do you know who is behind "ApolloOS"?

From apollo-core.com - it was stated by people who knows and who clearly don't know when to be quiet, that it was toku who is the person who decides to replace FFS with pfs3aio for latest R49 or whatever the latest is.

And yes distribution certainly is illegal, not just because of based on 3.9. Because of that it is unofficial.

Yeah, very "unofficial", when it is promoted, supported, and maintained by the very same person who owns the domain that officially are selling the product it is made for. This "unofficial" label is utter nonsense.

[kolla]

you just nerve, you are aware of

do us a favor and search for another hobby

Is this is personal threat? I am not leaving, I am having way too much fun now.

[kolla]

Now that you put it this way, the Apollo Team seems even cooler.

Yeah, they are super cool... breaking the law, breaking the law!

[kolla]

Now the question is can there be a legitimate way to offer users the same as with coffin/Apollo OS whatever.
For starters i would be very happy to pay for such a product saves me a ton of work!

Simple - Hyperion hires Tuko to work with ThoR and Olsen. :laughing:

[kolla]

Unfortunately this is not possible since Hyperion cannot do any business due to their status as dissolved entity.

Not being allowed to sell products is not the same as not being allowed to hire and do R&D.Btw - how is Apollo Team doing in this regard? Registered entity that is selling properly tested and approved products for the end user (most users) market? Or are the Vampire cards sold as "developer boards" to "developers"?

[kolla]

Since when has "doing business" become to exclusively mean "sell products"?

Are you saying Hyperion are making money by other means than selling products?

As you know the Apollo Team isn't selling Vampire boards, it is developing a core that is used on Vampire boards.

No, I really don't know where "Apollo Team" stops and "Vampire Team" begins - it's all a big blurry mess. http://www.apollo-accelerators.com - lists at the bottom "Team", without specifying whether it is "Apollo Team" or something else, but it certainly includes "Apollo Team" members. I would even go as far as to say it includes the _entire_ Apollo Team.

[kolla]

The boards where CE certified quite some time ago already.

Anyone can slap a CE marking on their product - it is a claim by manufacturer, not an approval by any official.
It is not by any means a certification.

By marking the Vampire with CE, the manufacturer takes all responsibilities in case any of the required standards are not met though, so the "Vampire Team" better know what they are doing... if someone actually tests the cards for compliance, and find that they do not meet the requirements, manufacturer and resellers are the ones with all responsibility, or in other words, deep poop.