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Offline Romanujan

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Re: Would you purchase AmigaOS if it supported ARM or x86?
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2017, 06:19:50 PM »
Quote from: nicholas;819523
Or they can do it like Amithlon did it.

Which is basically a stripped-down Linux running a stripped-down UAE...
 

Offline giZmo350

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Re: Would you purchase AmigaOS if it supported ARM or x86?
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2017, 06:22:39 PM »
Well, I bought OS4.1FE but probably will never install it on a PeeCee. I voted Only PPC but will install it on real hardware if they would just bring back the Moana project! Yea, that's gonna happen! :lol:
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Offline nicholas

Re: Would you purchase AmigaOS if it supported ARM or x86?
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2017, 06:39:44 PM »
Quote from: Romanujan;819556
Which is basically a stripped-down Linux running a stripped-down UAE...


Not even close.
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Offline Romanujan

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Re: Would you purchase AmigaOS if it supported ARM or x86?
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2017, 08:43:54 PM »
https://amithlonblog.wordpress.com/amithlonfaq/

Quote
It is “just” an emulator. It boots up (from a CD, although other  boot methods are possible), then starts an m68k emulator task, sets up  the hardware for it, loads the rom images into memory, and then pretty  much hands control over to the emulated 68k, which just runs like it  would in any “real” Amiga
Quote
So what we do for gfx card access is to use the linux framebuffer  devices. That lets us use just about any gfx card to some degree, and a  number of directly supported cards in very nice ways. That’s only  possible because some nice people already wrote really good drivers for  the linux kernel, and all we have to do is to make some calls to those  drivers.
Quote
The same goes for IDE/SCSI access. The linux kernel is full of drivers for an incredible range of IDE/SCSI controllers.
Authors took UAE, got rid of the Amiga chipset emulation to gain speed, provided "drivers" to some Linux kernel APIs, and bundled this with AmigaOS 3.9... the only innovation there was API (and, as far as I know, a customized GCC) to integrate x86 and m68k code, but not much of such code was eventually written.
 

Offline LionheartTopic starter

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Re: Would you purchase AmigaOS if it supported ARM or x86?
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2017, 09:29:39 PM »
Quote from: cha05e90;819468
I voted only PPC - I would think about a X86/ARM release if it supports seemless integration of 68k and PowerPC emulation via a hypothetical "Petunia NG".

I've actually spoken with the author of Petunia, and according to his blog on E-UAE JIT...

"So, what is the bottom line of my ramblings? This JIT implementation was made for PowerPC, but it can be changed to support multiple processor architectures. I don't think that it would be too complicated, the majority of the code can be reused, it just needs some restructuring."  

He has informed me that it would it would be possible to create an x86 compiler from the E-UAE JIT engine he had done for PPC.

He also states in his blog on E-UAE JIT that....

"WinUAE, the Amiga emulator for Windows have JIT compiling  for many years now. Unfortunately, it is closely tied to the intel x86  architecture, because the most efficient way of implementing the JIT  compiling is kinda similar to an actual programming language compiler:  the end result is machine code, which is executed directly. Although it  is possible to implement a processor independent JIT compiler, but to  squeeze more speed from the executed code in a general compiling model  is much more complex.Recent  Amiga (like) computers are using PowerPC processors, porting the WinUAE  solution to PPC processor would be closely as hard to do as  implementing a brand new solution. Not to mention that there are special  requirements from the environment of the emulation, that cannot be  simply resolved."


Quote from: agami;819509
Hell yeah!!
Those are what I call supportable initiatives. It wouldn't be cheap and  it wouldn't happen quickly, but it should be something that is pursued.

This is coming from someone who is the kind of geek that gets off on  microprocessor architecture. I love the Power ISA, and I'm a big fan of  SPARC and MIPS. But just because I have a soft spot for these things  does not mean that the right choice for a viable computing platform is  one of these esoteric CPUs. If intel x86 isn't your "cup of tea" then  you have ARM; Those are the only choices.

I also get really nerdy about Operating System Architectures. I'm a big  fan of BeOS and QNX, but I would still like to see AmigaOS play a more  significant role in today's computing market.

I've actually used BeOS and its derivative Haiku. I'm also a moderator on a BSD forum. :) Apple actually uses BSD in OSX, but instead of using drivers from FreeBSD they design their own using I/O kit.  Apple has also contributed back code to FreeBSD for stuff like symmetric multiprocessing (SMP).  As a matter of fact, it would be easier to replace the core of AmigaOS with BSD and rewrite the custom GUI to run on top of it.  AmigaOS would go from using a slower micro kernel to a faster monolithic kernel with memory protection support.  Hyperion doesn't even own the kernel, ExecSG, for OS4.  They pay to license it from the Friedens.  Hyperion wouldn't have to pay to use BSD as the BSD license allows them to use it for free without having to contribute anything back.

"
The BSD license means that you can take the code in FreeBSD and do  whatever you want with it, as long as you don't sue us or pretend that  you wrote it.  Without the legal obligation to share code, it is  possible to use FreeBSD code almost anywhere.  Some companies, almost  certainly, will take our code, modify it, and never give anything back.   They are free to do this, however many don't."
Source: freebsd.org

By replacing ExecSG with a BSD kernel, Hyperion OS4 could also use BSD drivers and gain close to the same level of driver support as Linux.

Quote from: SamuraiCrow;819552
68080 all the way.  Whether it be FPGA or ASIC, I am fed up with the other ones.

Never heard of a 68080.  I know there was a 68070 made by Phillips though but it was a custom 68000 for their CDi.
 

Offline kolla

Re: Would you purchase AmigaOS if it supported ARM or x86?
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2017, 10:12:53 PM »
68080 is the name the Apollo team landed on for their 68k core. I tend to use AC 68EC080, AC as in Apollo Core, EC because as of now it lacks FPU and MMU and very much resembles a 68EC040 for existing 68k software.
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Offline Arnuph1s

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Re: Would you purchase AmigaOS if it supported ARM or x86?
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2017, 10:57:54 PM »
I voted for ARM as that means Raspberry Pi and that means a large potential user base which can only be a good thing, right? Almost forgotten (albeit unfairly) systems like RiscOS have had something of a revival thanks to the RPi hardware.
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Offline agami

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Re: Would you purchase AmigaOS if it supported ARM or x86?
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2017, 12:07:17 AM »
Quote from: Pat the Cat;819512
Am I missing something? There's a killer app only available on AmigaOS that you can't get with a free operating system?

WHY would anybody pay for AmigaDOS as opposed to installing Linux for free? That is the question. Get the answer right, and you might just sell AmigaOS to new users.

3D printing is moving to 32 bit processors. AmigaOS is still (largely) a 32 bit operating system. This does make sense, at least to investigate.

The killer app is yet to be developed, but to answer your other question: Because Linux is a steaming pile of dog %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@! upon which sits a steaming pile of horse %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!.

The only redeeming quality of Linux is that it is free. I use it a lot and have since around 1997, 95% of my servers today are running Linux; Mixture of openSuSE, CentOS, Ubuntu, and I think there's some Fedora somewhere. Yet every time I have to deal with it I recoil at the prospect. Linux is yet another example of how you don't have to be the most elegant or efficient to be the leader. Just like with Microsoft in the '90s; Its a critical mass thing, not an indication that it is any good or a pleasure to use.
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Offline Templario

Re: Would you purchase AmigaOS if it supported ARM or x86?
« Reply #37 on: January 14, 2017, 05:22:27 PM »
For both running OS4 or MorphOS.
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Offline slimf

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Re: Would you purchase AmigaOS if it supported ARM or x86?
« Reply #38 on: January 14, 2017, 10:13:13 PM »
My vote would be for effort on PPC os4 to cease and for a renewed back porting effort made to 68xxxx.

The reason: installed user base. I would also Persue partnerships with the guys making vampire / appolo so that cheap upgrades for amigas were available with real OS functionality to follow.

Amiga OS is never going to make it in its own right - porting to x86 is somthing I would have advocated for back when the decision to go ppc was made but not now.

I think a real resurgence of the scene could be made to happen if cheap accelerators were avaialable along with os upgrades to match.

People would be able to upgrade existing hardware and eventually new hardware would get released - similar to fpga projects that give us compatible, but upgraded features.
 

Offline DavidF215

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Re: Would you purchase AmigaOS if it supported ARM or x86?
« Reply #39 on: January 22, 2017, 05:20:33 AM »
I would buy the x86 version. I did buy Amiga Forever 2016 specifically so that I could run AOS4 PPC on it.
AmigaOS enthusiast since 1993.
 

Offline fishy_fiz

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Re: Would you purchase AmigaOS if it supported ARM or x86?
« Reply #40 on: January 22, 2017, 05:35:42 AM »
Interesting to see that ppc is the least attractive option to people.
Also, in regards to endian issues, no, big endian x86 isn't impossible. I know people like to parrot that misinformation, but its simply not true. Heck, there's even instructions in x86-64 instruction set to dictate byte ordering.
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline gregthecanuck

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Re: Would you purchase AmigaOS if it supported ARM or x86?
« Reply #41 on: January 22, 2017, 07:56:24 AM »
Quote from: slimf;819737
My vote would be for effort on PPC os4 to cease and for a renewed back porting effort made to 68xxxx.

The reason: installed user base. I would also Persue partnerships with the guys making vampire / appolo so that cheap upgrades for amigas were available with real OS functionality to follow.


2017 is going to be interesting. After the V1200 Vampire there is the stand-alone board. Will be interesting to see what sells more volume - Vampires or Amiga Ones.
 

Offline psxphill

Re: Would you purchase AmigaOS if it supported ARM or x86?
« Reply #42 on: January 22, 2017, 11:37:08 AM »
Quote from: Pat the Cat;819512
WHY would anybody pay for AmigaDOS as opposed to installing Linux for free?


The only experience worse than Linux on a desktop, is Linux on a laptop.

It's ok for routers etc, although it was certainly better when routers used decent embedded operating systems.

If there was a usb bootable x64 amigaos with built in 68k and ppc backward compatibility and it was able to support all hardware%&$#?@!that I needed then I'd probably chip in some money.

A cheap amiga branded x64 fixed functionality platform that came bundled with amigaos might also be tempting.

I can't see raspberry pi users etc going for it though.
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: Would you purchase AmigaOS if it supported ARM or x86?
« Reply #43 on: January 22, 2017, 02:06:17 PM »
btw, 68k, or backward compatible 68k type softcore option is missing ;) would probably gather most votes anyway.
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Would you purchase AmigaOS if it supported ARM or x86?
« Reply #44 from previous page: January 22, 2017, 03:27:08 PM »
Quote from: wawrzon;820371
btw, 68k, or backward compatible 68k type softcore option is missing ;) would probably gather most votes anyway.


Trying to run OS4 on a 68K would be about as painful as running MUI4 or 5 on a  68K.
Vampire may soften that, but I'm not likely to give up OS3.X in favor of OS4 on legacy hardware.
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