new os3.x software ?

[a1200]

Cammy that is a work of art. I too like many it seems have decided that running OS3.1 is better overall than 3.9 . Just bought the developer cd 2.1 so I should be coding soon for the Amiga myself. I do a little php etc, so "how hard can it be??!?!"

[NovaCoder]

Im also curious as to what sort of sales a (hypothetical) good, commercial/commercial quality new 68k amiga game might generate? Again I know no-one is going to get rich, but would, say, 100 copies be feasible ?
I know other routes are considered "the future of amiga", but I still enjoy os3.x/68k amiga systems and it would be nice to get some nice new "big" software/features from time to time.

It's a good question.  I believe that if someone produced an original and professional classic game then many classic users' would buy it just for the novelty value of buy a 'new' game.  I don't think you'd be able to charge very much for it though.

To sell the most copies you'd probably target a base 1200 machine.

[sbeehre]

It's a good question.  I believe that if someone produced an original and professional classic game then many classic users' would buy it just for the novelty value of buy a 'new' game.  I don't think you'd be able to charge very much for it though.

To sell the most copies you'd probably target a base 1200 machine.

i would buy a new game and i think it should be targeted at an expanded 1200 with an 030 etc and maybe take advantage of recent cool hardware like the indivision aga etc.

[kickstart]

Just for the hell of it, I thought I'd post the latest screenshot of my A1200's Workbench. It's running in 16 colours so it's nice and responsive, and you can see both GlowIcons and NewIcons, the drawers for the Christmas game competition games, icons for SabreMSN and AmiMSN (two up-to-date OS3 MSN clients), and Tiny Invaders.



I'm running in PAL High Res Interlace with as much Overscan as my LCD TV will display, running through an RGB-S-Video adapter from AmigaManiac, so there's no flicker, just a nice solid display (with noise-reduction which helps soften the dithering).

I like to see os3.x setups without gfx cards =)

[Gulliver]

It would be an excellent idea to have OS3.x bounties. I am 100% with this.
Anyway, as a sidenote, MorphOS, AROS and OS4 users could benefit from this too, as all of them have some sort of OS3.x emulation enviroment

[Tumbleweed]

It would be an excellent idea to have OS3.x bounties. I am 100% with this.
Anyway, as a sidenote, MorphOS, AROS and OS4 users could benefit from this too, as all of them have some sort of OS3.x emulation enviroment

From the number of posts on this topic its clear that there is a decent amount of support for bounties. Which in principal I agree with. However what would be top of the list for new OS 3.X software?

For me its a CSS capable web browser. A bounty to encourage the contued development of say Neturf or Origyn for O3.X would gain my backing .I 've laready contributed to the development of Neturf directly to Artur via PayPal.

Weed

[Gulliver]

So, of course we are speaking of OS3.x apps, no RTG only 68k apps, so then:
-Port Zune (MUI Aros clone to 68k w/ native chipset support)
-Netsurf/OWB (68k w/ native chipset support)
-CGX and Warp3d both have a way to be run on AGA (what about a P96 driver for native gfx chipset? It would be slow, but it could allow native chipset gfx users to use P96 programs)
-I allways find it would be great to have a wordprocessor with user customized spelling check dictionaries and a direct support for the .DOC format from the MAC/PC.
-A centralized system preferences program much like Morphos 1.4 and p.O.S. had. This way it is much more comfortable, and avoids having to deal through a crammed Prefs drawer.
-An application that mixes both DevHandler and Wbstartup+ programs functionality
-A good and easy to master "Partition Magic" clone

And a few more that just cant seem to remember

[kickstart]

I support this thread but amiga world is like a tree these days too many ramifications (i like morphos, os4 and maybe aros but isnt binary compatible) but its a pity the situation of classic amiga, developers dont code for amiga.

[a1200]

I am not much bothered about a CSS/flash/java browser if the target machine is AGA or less, simply because the pages will still look crap and in low resolution. I think the apps would be better written to what the Amiga is strong at, paint/animation programs, TV and music editing, games and possibly an office-type package. A browser is nice but most websites are targeted at much higher resolutions than we can handle - unless I suppose if it is done but with loads of support for the various graphics options.....

... saying that, gfx cards are RARE! How about expanding the bounties to include hardware? By paying the hardware guy's R&D costs, this would allow them to make classic hardware without so much financial risk....

[Nearly-Right]

Hi Cammy,

Just for the hell of it, I thought I'd post the latest screenshot of my A1200's Workbench. It's running in 16 colours so it's nice and responsive, and you can see both GlowIcons and NewIcons.

Very nice, almost looks like OS4 window style.

I wondered what were you using for the window border and gadget set, and I take it you are using OS3.1, or is it some other WB version?

[klx300r]

@ NovaCoder

I agree! If a new game were to come out for AGA miggys' heck even for OCS/ECS I would buy it just to support new Amiga classic devolpment!  I use my OS4.1u1 for my web browsing and new/classic gaming needs nowadays but occasioanlly still boot up OS3.5 on my 1200 with Blizzard 030@50 and A500 with 1.3 :-)

[matthey]

There are still some active classic developers and we are still developing. I am currently working on a new version of ADis disassembler. I look for bugs by comparing reassembled programs (from ADis) with the original. Differences are usually bugs in ADis or Frank Wille's vasm. Frank has fixed several bugs already too. Sounds pretty boring, but vasm is used in the C compiler vbcc and one of the HUGE problems is poorly optimizing 68k C. I am also experimenting with reassembling AmigaOS 3.9 libraries for 020+ with ADis. I can usually speed up and save a few k per library. It needs to be very bug free though. I would like to make a new exec.library with several enhancements at some point. I'm working with a group of developers to try and get Warp3D and StormMesa working better as well. I've already fixed some bugs in the Voodoo drivers. Warp3D suffers from aweful 68k code optimization. I asked Hyperion for help or source to Voodoo drivers but they did not answer my e-mail. The biggest problems us developers run into is...

1) Many Amiga users do not report bugs or communicate. We can see that Amiga users download our programs. Don't be afraid to drop an e-mail. Many Amiga developers have suspended work on projects because they didn't think users were using their programs and/or there weren't any more bugs reported. There are some very active and vocal users on the other hand, namely the ones posting in this thread .

2) There isn't a good optimizing C compiler for 68k. Vbcc is comming along but it's a huge project to make a crossplatform multi-CPU C compiler. GCC has generated some horrible code and some of the newer versions have gotten worse. Many C developers don't even know when their code runs at 1/2 speed. This is more common than you think.

3) We don't have source code to fix old programs. Many old authors don't bother to release source code because they think the classic Amiga is dead. Thomas Richter is ready to release a new layers.library if he had permission. He thinks we could come up with the sources for the classic OS and continue developement if we had permission. Warp3D could be 50% faster if we had the sources. We need a free the OS3.x campaign. Maybe a Hyperian support your software campaign too.

In conclusion, it's rather frustrating developing for the Amiga classic. We are making progress though. Get involved and help someway. There will likely be more fpga Amiga's (Natami or enhanced MiniMig) so 68k can have a future if we plan for it. The classic Amiga is too good and fun to die.

[Cammy]

The window theme I'm using is kind of based on the SilverGreen theme from OS4.1.1, I'm using the Blue version at the moment. It's one of Rebel's Workbench theme packs for VisualPrefs/Birdie/MUI. I'm running OS3.1, but these themes work in OS3.0-3.9 as well.

Also, I think a bounty to maybe get IBrowse open-sourced might be nice. While CSS support is unlikely, it's still a great browser for viewing the websites that do still work. Also, if you open IBrowse on a Super High Res Interlace or HighGFX screen, most websites fit fine. Since netbooks are so popular these days, the average screenwidth has dropped to 1024 again so website developers are being encouraged to design their sites to scale or fit.

I've never really been interested in towerising my A1200 or adding a graphics card. I figure if I want a 24bit RTG Workbench I can just use Aros and Amithlon on my PC. I like sqeazing everything I can out of the original chipset anyway. Besides, we'll have the Natami soon!

And speaking of the Natami, and also the MiniMig and FPGArcade, they all will run OS3 so the market isn't disappearing, it's growing! And of couse there's WinUAE/AmigaForever.

[SamuraiCrow]

2) There isn't a good optimizing C compiler for 68k. Vbcc is comming along but it's a huge project to make a crossplatform multi-CPU C compiler. GCC has generated some horrible code and some of the newer versions have gotten worse. Many C developers don't even know when their code runs at 1/2 speed. This is more common than you think.

Sidewinder and I have been trying to drum up support for LLVM on the 68k Amiga.  If the 68k backend is completed, the Clang compiler would be available for the Amiga.  The catch is that it is mostly written in C++ and the backend is written mostly in a utility called TableGen.

The closest backend to the 68k would be the Intel x86 series.  It would need to be stripped down to the bare minimum also since 68k doesn't support vector registers.

I expect when we start the 68k backend we'll probably use VASM as our assembler unless we need JIT support.  We will need to render code directly to RAM if we do that.

Keep in touch, Matthey!  We'll need to have all the help we can get.

[SteveD]

First, to Cammy, that is the coolest AGA Workbench I've ever seen.  Unbelievable.  But . . . I'm a graphics card guy.  At least after running OS 3.1 on a 1084 recently.  Scary stuff.

I would support a bounty for an OS 3.x version of OWB, etc.  I often like to use AmiKit or AmigaSYS on my PC, but get frustrated by lack of a modern browser.  With a modern browser and a Catweasel, my PC Amiga use would rise exponentially.

Every other idea in this thread sounds good, too.  I love 3.x and would be overjoyed to see new apps.  And even though most users of all the WinUAE variants are probably gamers, I'm sure there'd be at least some support for nice apps.  And I do still hope Natami appears.  But if not, there's other possibilities.

[ami_junki]

I would definitely buy some new OS3.1 software, if I can use my Amiga for my daily needs I will do, it is just a much nicer experience.  Unfortunately due to my job I have to use "industry standard" software so I don`t get as much time as I would like to spend on the Amiga.  By the way Cammy that is a gorgeous Workbench, you must have put a lot of effort into it.  Would you ever consider releasing a pack like ClassicWB with your Workbench set-up, I am sure many people would love to have a Workbench like yours.