Who wants to purchase A.org?

[the_leander]

That's my only real reservation about the idea, tbh. It's bound to cause some friction. You'd want to draw up a formal idea for the site management first that people agree to before handing over any money. I don't think a site like this should be run by an ad-hoc collective of people that have paid for it.

Being a financial stakeholder in the site shouldn't mean you have undue influence in how it is run, IMO.

^^^ This.

[amigadave]

That's my only real reservation about the idea, tbh. It's bound to cause some friction. You'd want to draw up a formal idea for the site management first that people agree to before handing over any money. I don't think a site like this should be run by an ad-hoc collective of people that have paid for it.

Being a financial stakeholder in the site shouldn't mean you have undue influence in how it is run, IMO.

I understand your concerns and the spirit of your post, but the decisions must be made by some person or group, unless every little decision is to be put to a vote on the site, which I think is impractical.  From that point of view, the paying stakeholders should expect to have some say in how things are run, or appoint a manager, or group to make most of the decisions.  Larger decisions could still be put to a member vote.

The reason I started this thread was to start these kinds of useful discussions and hopefully find a solution to keep this site running smoothly and as respectfully to honor its past as possible.  I am glad to see the participation so far and the interest.

I have no desire to "Take Over" the site, but would be interested in becoming more involved and helping it to continue to improve over time.

So, let us all make it happen.

Edit:  I agree that all the discussion and by-laws, or rules should be spelled out and finalized before any money changes hands.

[motorollin]

I agree. Perhaps something (equivalent to, but without the legal implications of) $10 shares - giving voting rights for major decisions to be made about the site.

I suspect this would be a legal minefield. What if one of the "owners" went off and sold the site without the permission of the rest of the "board"? Would they all sue him/her for the value of their stake?

I don't think that would work very well TBH. The more I think about it, the more I feel that the only reasonable solution is a buy-out from an individual

[amigadave]

I am leaning toward putting my support toward creation of a U.S. based Non-Profit organization which would purchase and run the site pretty much as it has been run in the past.

That would be my 1st preference, but I am open to any solution which will keep this site and this community active and growing if possible.

Edit: The only reason I suggest in being a "U.S." based non-profit organization is that I am in the U.S. and the current owner (Wayne) is in the U.S., but I realize that there are more members of this site that reside outside the U.S. than inside the U.S.  This would not prevent members from outside the U. S. from being part of, or even the manager of the U.S. non-profit organization, as far as I know so far.

[Pyromania]

If we did take over the site one of the first things I would make sure happened is Karlos being compensated for his hard work migrating all the old info to vBulletin.

[the_leander]

If we did take over the site one of the first things I would make sure happened is Karlos being compensated for his hard work migrating all the old info to vBulletin.

Just be aware that his prefered method of payment is curry.

[the_leander]

I am leaning toward putting my support toward creation of a U.S. based Non-Profit organization which would purchase and run the site pretty much as it has been run in the past.

How would that work exactly?

[ZeBeeDee]

I've said it before and I'll repeat it here ...

I'll stick a $500 pledge into the pot if one gets organised.

I'd rather be a part of A.org both now and in the future than look at it through places like www.archive.org

[amigadave]

How would that work exactly?

Well, I need to do more research, but I had started to research the creation of another non-profit organization months ago and I have some resources on the subject that could be helpful.

This thread is intended to discuss the topic of EXACTLY how all of it would work, before any decisions or offers are made to Wayne, but if we want to do this, time is of the essence because there are other offers on Wayne's table already.

[Wayne]

I'm staying out of this thread, save to say that the way normal corporations work is;

Investors buy a certain percentage of the total amount of available shares (in this case, 10,000).  The highest x number of share owners sit on the "Board of Directors".

That Board then elects, or hires a person to run the company and gives that person complete control of what is, or isn't done in the day-to-day operations.  The only control the board would have over the day-to-day director (aka webmaster in this case) would be the ability to collectively vote to replace said webmaster at certain intervals if he pisses off too many people.

Investors can sell their shares, but cannot sell more shares than they own (obviously).  The Board, should it decide to raise capital, could create new shares, but would need to accept that more shares = less % ownership for them (unless they bought the shares that is).

I have an idea of who amongst us would make (IMHO) the best day-to-day webmaster, but I'm *not* involved in this, unless someone specifically (and privately) asks my opinion.

As for the site, there are currently three modes of income which pay for the monthly costs, so no investor would be out of pocket there.

1) The donations which should continue
2) The Yahoo adverts (very, very little money, but it makes up for the months when donations fall short)
3) Site memberships.  So far, 99% of those came in April/May for one year, meaning that there's virtually no income from that until next year.   Any current memberships were put towards paying the costs of the vB upgrade and any additional modules (such as vBCMS, links engine, etc) that we bought to get the current functionality.

The total of which usually equals about $40 to $60 per month on average.  Yahoo ads pay off once the $100 shelf is reached, meaning it pays out $100 about every 3 to 4 months.

Any income from the project is usually set aside to build an operating budget for the project itself (reinvesting in the business) until such time that a percentage of the profits begins being divided up between the investors as a dividend.

Someone who buys the site, who isn't banned from Google Adverts could probably increase the income potential of the site substantially.

Again though, I'm not involved in this thread, I'm just outlining a few things for you guys to think about.

Wayne

[amiga92570]

I suspect this would be a legal minefield. What if one of the "owners" went off and sold the site without the permission of the rest of the "board"? Would they all sue him/her for the value of their stake?

I don't think that would work very well TBH. The more I think about it, the more I feel that the only reasonable solution is a buy-out from an individual

My feelings exactly.

[Gavilan]

@all TBH: my only and main interest about "making a donation" is to keep the site alive and kicking. I dont have interest in becoming part of a chairboard, or anything like that.
I just want to put my little 2 cents on this issue here, to help the site staying alive
I wont consider i will have more "influence" than others just because i put money to keep the thing up & running. I consider it more like a "donation" as the way i used to do every now and then using PayPal to help feed the cat... thats my point of view...of course, im talking considering im only offering 100 dollars, but is the least i can do for ALL that this site has given to me all over this years....

I do consider, however, that ther must be 1 (maybe more) "Webmaster" and a couple of mods to keep things in the rail, but otherwise, maybe among the people who put money, make polls, or ask some things that concern to all the site, thats not a bad idea also...but it will end up in zillions of different opinions (maybe as many as people putting money on this?) but i think it would be great to have certain consense on certain issues regarding the site

As for me, i will be very happy if one single person/collective Amiga users keep the site alive, and keeps improveing it over the time, so it can still has its mojo!!!


Sebastian

Im not able to be mod or anything like that, but i think i can point at least 5 member here who would do such task brilliantly

[Aegis]

I'll contribute $1,000 towards the buyout of Amiga.org

[Karlos]

If we did take over the site one of the first things I would make sure happened is Karlos being compensated for his hard work migrating all the old info to vBulletin.

Thanks, but that's really not necessary. I certainly didn't offer to help with any such intentions. Basically, I love the site and the many good friends I've made here. Like many old-timers, I have a lot of fond memories of the place I didn't want to see the new site missing the old content.

Simply put, if I had the $10,000 to spare, this thread wouldn't even be here

[bernd_afa]

@wayne have written in closed thread.
>NONE of you would invest 15 years into ANY project to give it away for free.

what do you think, the guys who bring in the last years the most progress and new software to amiga ?.Do they get 10000$ for 15 years or lets say 1000$ for 1,5 years ?

this are the guys that port or write opensource software, most of them see never a penny for bounty.You can remove from all AOS the software that is written for free, especially for MOS or OS4 or AROS there is very very few left then.also on OS4 and MOS its known there are some devs they get no money.

they make it for fun, and when you have fun to program instead a expensive holiday or car, you get then indirect too money.same is when you make a page.

Maybe if you do not work on your page anymore, you need more money.what hobbie you then do in your free time ?

[amiga4ever]

To be basic and blunt, it is no one's concern if Wayne has decided to $ell Amiga.org or who runs it next. It is a privately run site and even if he decided to sell to Coco the Clown who - in-turn - decided to kick all current members off and turn it into a circus side-act - that's STILL absolutely none of our business.

We can be thankful it has lasted this long and that many of us have enjoyed it for all these years.

And I think this thread is about raising money to buy the site, not for debating the moral implications wither for or against. so drop it.