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AuthorTopic: A3000T - memory issue?  (Read 1258 times)

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Offline Pat the Cat

Re: A3000T - memory issue?
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2021, 01:09:32 AM »
OK, that was definitely in the motherboard fast ZIP memory (07000000-07FFFFFF). Looks like a bad ZIP or maybe just loose.

What confuses me is only 1MB of chip RAM. Do you have half your chip RAM sockets empty?

"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

A1200, Vanilla, Surf Squirrel, SD Card, KS 3.0/3.z, PCMCIA dev
A500, Vanilla, A570, Rev 5, KS 1.2/1.3 Testbench system
Rasp Pi, UAE4ARM, 3D laser scanner, experimental, hoping for AmigaOS4Arm, based on Watterott Fabscan Pi
 
The following users thanked this post: Tumbleweed

Offline Tumbleweed

Re: A3000T - memory issue?
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2021, 01:19:05 AM »
OK, that was definitely in the motherboard fast ZIP memory (07000000-07FFFFFF). Looks like a bad ZIP or maybe just loose.

What confuses me is only 1MB of chip RAM. Do you have half your chip RAM sockets empty?

I removed the socketed CHIP Mem ZIPS - thinking the problem was in chip mem. I didnt replace them. I have got the machine running mem diag on the fast ram using ATK (it booted fine after I left it off for a while). I will run overnight and see what happens. If it is the fastmem I will remove the fastmem ZIPs. Its apian as there are alot of them and its easy to damage them when removing and that maybe the source of the problem as I had removed them and refitted them after soaking in isopropyl alcohol - I did ben a few pins and it took me a few attempts to get them all seated properly.

I did some googling and reading past threads on A.Org and EAB. One suggestion was to check the tick signal from the PSU or switch the source using J350. I might give that a go tomorrow depending on the results of the ATK mem test.

Weed
« Last Edit: November 09, 2021, 01:23:51 AM by Tumbleweed »
A3000T, Cybervision64, CSMKII 060; A3000D, PicassoII, Z3 Fastlane; A2000D, 040, PicassoII; A4000D, A1200, Blizzard 030 MKIV - both not working :(
 

Offline Pat the Cat

Re: A3000T - memory issue?
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2021, 02:33:56 AM »
Might be you got a chip RAM ZIP mixed up with a fast RAM ZIP?

The 2 are different sizes (256K X 4 for chip, 512K x 4 for fast).

Checking the tick line is a good plan, as is a recap on the Psu.

The timing jumper is necessary if you replace the Psu entirely, only big box Amiga Psus have a tick output.
"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

A1200, Vanilla, Surf Squirrel, SD Card, KS 3.0/3.z, PCMCIA dev
A500, Vanilla, A570, Rev 5, KS 1.2/1.3 Testbench system
Rasp Pi, UAE4ARM, 3D laser scanner, experimental, hoping for AmigaOS4Arm, based on Watterott Fabscan Pi
 

Offline Tumbleweed

Re: A3000T - memory issue?
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2021, 07:27:09 AM »
I ran ATK overnight and it flagged a mem error in fast RAM as a I suspected it would. Slightly different error from the one flagged yesterday. So feels like FAST Ram is the issue. This kinda makes sense as I did bend pins when I installed the ZIPs and it took me a few attempts to fit them.

My plan is to remove the ZIPS one bank at a time and re-test using ATK.

PAT that is a very good suggestion re me mixing up the ZIPs. When I removed them I stored them in separate containers one for the Chip memory and the other for the FAST. They then sat for a long time (a few years) - maybe they got mixed up during that period but I'll double check.
 
EDIT: CHIP RAM ZIPs are all 256 modules. MB81C4256A-70PSZ 9250 D13Z is what is printed on them. Manufactured in Singapore.

I tracked down ZIPs from a UK seller on eBay last night and ordered 8 ZIPs. These look to be the static column type I think going by the spec - 258 as opposed to 256 which I read signals that they are static column.

TC514258AZ-80,TC514258 20PIN ZIP, 256K x 4 1M DRAM

Thanks for your help Pat I really appreciate it and I feel as though I am now getting somewhere.  :D

Weed 

« Last Edit: November 09, 2021, 07:46:19 AM by Tumbleweed »
A3000T, Cybervision64, CSMKII 060; A3000D, PicassoII, Z3 Fastlane; A2000D, 040, PicassoII; A4000D, A1200, Blizzard 030 MKIV - both not working :(
 

Offline Tumbleweed

Re: A3000T - memory issue?
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2021, 09:42:42 AM »
Update:

I removed the Fast Ram ZIPs - ended up taking them all out as I discovered that I had bent quite a few pins when I had fitted them (see PIC). These are some of the better ones.

No will rebuild one bank at a time and see if I can correct the bent pins. If I cant salvage them I'll end up with less on board Fast Ram. Not a prob as there is 128MB on the CSMKII and on a positive note I now have an excuse to get one of these https://icomp.de/shop-icomp/en/produkt-details/product/bigramplus.html ;D

EDIT: Fitted the Chip mem ZIPs - booted. Got the kickstart screen. Ran ATK - 2MB Chip found. Ran the mem diag - all good after 40+ rounds. Switch off. Populated Bank 0 with Fast Mem ZIPs. Switch on - no boot. Black screen. Soft reset - black screen. Switch off/on - black screen. Reinstalled CSMKII - switch on  Rainbow bars but then black screen. CSMKII is working as I get the rainbow when I soft reset but then it progresses no further. I get a black screen.

Removed chip ram ZIPs - boots. Up and running. Run ATK - 1MB memory found (correct all ZIPs removed and no CSMKII). Run mem test all looks ok.

Fitting the ZIPs into bank 0 seemed to trigger the problem. Its all very odd. Will try adding the chip mem ZIPS with the CSMKII and not populate the FAST ram.

Weed
« Last Edit: November 09, 2021, 01:52:45 PM by Tumbleweed »
A3000T, Cybervision64, CSMKII 060; A3000D, PicassoII, Z3 Fastlane; A2000D, 040, PicassoII; A4000D, A1200, Blizzard 030 MKIV - both not working :(
 

Offline Pat the Cat

Re: A3000T - memory issue?
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2021, 03:12:03 PM »
Yeah, those ZIPs are a PITA.

It's tricky working them into an A3000D, putting them in sideways on a Tower... welll...

I could be wrong, I thought you had to have a little bit of motherboard fast RAM on these to keep the onboard scsi happy or similar.

I can httpsee why people fit simm adapters in the ZIP sockets. Much lehttpshttps hassle.

You might have a damaged or maybe corroded ZIP socket rather than a chip,
"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

A1200, Vanilla, Surf Squirrel, SD Card, KS 3.0/3.z, PCMCIA dev
A500, Vanilla, A570, Rev 5, KS 1.2/1.3 Testbench system
Rasp Pi, UAE4ARM, 3D laser scanner, experimental, hoping for AmigaOS4Arm, based on Watterott Fabscan Pi
 

Offline Pat the Cat

"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

A1200, Vanilla, Surf Squirrel, SD Card, KS 3.0/3.z, PCMCIA dev
A500, Vanilla, A570, Rev 5, KS 1.2/1.3 Testbench system
Rasp Pi, UAE4ARM, 3D laser scanner, experimental, hoping for AmigaOS4Arm, based on Watterott Fabscan Pi
 
The following users thanked this post: Tumbleweed

Offline Tumbleweed

Re: A3000T - memory issue?
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2021, 03:35:46 PM »
ZIPs are areal pain as Castellen pointed out:

"Just to state the obvious, always double check the ZIP polarities before inserting them, check the pins are all aligned, and check pins are *between* the socket contact pairs before pressing them in place.  As opposed to employing a mutant gorilla with a sledge hammer as many people seem to do when fitting ZIP memory....."

the pins are so fragile and even when taking care its easy to bend them. For the 3000T the CHIP mem ZIPs arent too bad as you can get easy access to them. The FAST mem ones though are best populated with the board outside the case as the second bank is close to the floppy drive and CD compartments.

The ZIP to SIMM adapters are a neat solution but they are hard to find and for some they get in the way of the CPU card. I came across the link to the PCBWay website. I might have a go at that - need to get a decent soldering station though. Would make a neat mini project.

After a lot of testing various combinations of CHIP ram 1MB, 2MB CPU CARD no FAST Mem Zips etc and testing with ATK I have it booting happily into WB with no on-board FAST mem but with 2MB CHIP and 128MB on the CSMKII.

Will let it run overnight with ATK as before and fingers crossed no errors flagging when I look at it in the morning.  :D

I also tracked down some ZIPs for the FAST mem on eBay - almost the same as the original ones but slightly slower 80ns vs 60ns. The CHIP zips are 70ns. Does it make a difference that the CHIP and FAST operate at different speeds?

Weed.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2021, 03:39:20 PM by Tumbleweed »
A3000T, Cybervision64, CSMKII 060; A3000D, PicassoII, Z3 Fastlane; A2000D, 040, PicassoII; A4000D, A1200, Blizzard 030 MKIV - both not working :(
 

Offline Pat the Cat

Re: A3000T - memory issue?
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2021, 07:53:35 PM »


After a lot of testing various combinations of CHIP ram 1MB, 2MB CPU CARD no FAST Mem Zips etc and testing with ATK I have it booting happily into WB with no on-board FAST mem but with 2MB CHIP and 128MB on the CSMKII.

Will let it run overnight with ATK as before and fingers crossed no errors flagging when I look at it in the morning.  :D

Fingers crossed it will be OK.


I also tracked down some ZIPs for the FAST mem on eBay - almost the same as the original ones but slightly slower 80ns vs 60ns. The CHIP zips are 70ns. Does it make a difference that the CHIP and FAST operate at different speeds?

Weed.

For best performance, you want the fast ZIPs to all be 60ns or faster static column. I don't advise mixing different speeds and different types (static column OR fast page).

Chip RAM has to be 80ns or faster.

However, chip and fast can be different speeds, bearing the above in mind.
"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

A1200, Vanilla, Surf Squirrel, SD Card, KS 3.0/3.z, PCMCIA dev
A500, Vanilla, A570, Rev 5, KS 1.2/1.3 Testbench system
Rasp Pi, UAE4ARM, 3D laser scanner, experimental, hoping for AmigaOS4Arm, based on Watterott Fabscan Pi
 

Offline Pat the Cat

Re: A3000T - memory issue?
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2021, 08:21:06 PM »
Oh, if you want to check RAMsey settings for motherboard fast RAM;-

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=1026344

Best done with no fast ZIPs installed.
"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

A1200, Vanilla, Surf Squirrel, SD Card, KS 3.0/3.z, PCMCIA dev
A500, Vanilla, A570, Rev 5, KS 1.2/1.3 Testbench system
Rasp Pi, UAE4ARM, 3D laser scanner, experimental, hoping for AmigaOS4Arm, based on Watterott Fabscan Pi
 

Offline Tumbleweed

Re: A3000T - memory issue?
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2021, 09:12:37 PM »
Thanks Pat. I didnt know such a thing existed. Ill try it out tomorrow depending on how the mem tests go over night. :)

Very much appreciated.

Weed
A3000T, Cybervision64, CSMKII 060; A3000D, PicassoII, Z3 Fastlane; A2000D, 040, PicassoII; A4000D, A1200, Blizzard 030 MKIV - both not working :(
 

Offline Castellen

Re: A3000T - memory issue?
« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2021, 05:19:42 AM »
Ive not serviced the PSU. its where I'll start looking.

This issue does have signs that it could be related to excessive noise on the 5V supply, or possibly heat related.  If you have some way of looking at the AC component on the 5V supply (e.g. an oscilloscope), you'll immediately see the state of the power supply.  Expect less than 50mV of AC noise on the 5V line when measured at the main board power connector, and the DC component between about 4.7V - 5.2V.

I've just noticed that you have a CPU board.  To rule that out as a possible contributor, I'd suggest operating the A3000T with the onboard 68030 and memory and *without* the CPU board fitted to see if there's any change in operation.



What were you hoping to achieve with the reset line?  Unlike most Amiga models, the A3000T reset signal is generated within the power supply, not on the main board.  At power on, reset stays low until the 5V supply is stable, then reset is set to 5V and the system runs.  Worth noting with the A3000T is if reset rises too quickly (it isn't delayed when the 5V supply comes up), then the fast memory controller (Ramsey) isn't initialised correctly, and you can end up with 0MB or 4MB of fast memory instead of whatever you have fitted.

If the main board has no sign of booting, then it's worth checking that reset/'power good' is at 5V for starters.  But whatever is happening on the reset line won't be causing your software errors.

Also on the A3000T, reset is connected to the front panel key switch.  I had a customer recently where the key switch had been butchered and was permanently holding reset low.
 

Offline Tumbleweed

Re: A3000T - memory issue?
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2021, 08:38:39 AM »
Cheers Castellen. I ran ATK overnight. 3000T configured as follows:

1. CHIP mem populated with 2MB. I reinstalled the ZIPs I removed.
2. CSMKII 060 with 128MB SIMMS
3. No on-board FAST mem

Ran the all memory diag. No issues reported after 50+ rounds. Yesterday ATK reported errors in FAST mem with on-board FAST ram ZIPs populated. No probs reported today. I suspect I damaged the ZIPs / sockets when reinstalling them. I have new ZIPs arriving at end of this week. So may try them. I also have a 3000D so I can use that to test the ZIPs I removed from the A3000T.

Ill have a look at the PSU. I dont have a scope though but can check voltages using my multi-meter. Maybe I should recap the PSU. Not sure how onerous a task that would be but I am ok using a soldering iron so long as I am clear on whats to be removed and replaced.

Best.

Weed
« Last Edit: November 10, 2021, 09:10:26 AM by Tumbleweed »
A3000T, Cybervision64, CSMKII 060; A3000D, PicassoII, Z3 Fastlane; A2000D, 040, PicassoII; A4000D, A1200, Blizzard 030 MKIV - both not working :(
 

Offline Tumbleweed

Re: A3000T - memory issue?
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2021, 07:42:31 PM »
Been a while since last posted on the probs I had with my A3000T. After removing the FAST Ram ZIPs Ive had no probs. Today I received a new Super Buster -11 (from Analogic) which I replaced the existing -07 version and fitted the BIG Ram Plus (from Alinea). Ive not got an immense 128MB + 256MB of FAST RAM.

I remember when I got my first A500 with 512k pf RAM. This was huge as I had a C16 back then with 16k. I then upgraded the A500 with a 1/2 MB trap door expansion to have what was mammoth back then 1MB. Ive now got 384MB plus 2 MB chip   :D. Now what can I do with it?

A3000T, Cybervision64, CSMKII 060; A3000D, PicassoII, Z3 Fastlane; A2000D, 040, PicassoII; A4000D, A1200, Blizzard 030 MKIV - both not working :(