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AuthorTopic: Introducing Warp3D Nova for AmigaOS 4.1  (Read 13424 times)

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Offline Gulliver

Re: Introducing Warp3D Nova for AmigaOS 4.1
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2016, 08:15:31 AM »
Quote from: gregthecanuck;806211
Gulliver:

Congratulations on being the first d!ck in this thread.

You could have asked if there were plans to port to other platforms in a nice way but instead chose to don your flame gear and toss an incendiary device.

What has been accomplished here is an amazing amount of work in nine months by a small team on a likely fairly limited budget.

Requesting that this becomes "open" and available to other platforms is naive to the extreme.

Normally I don't do the "angry" type of post but really dude, get a clue.


I didnĀ“t insult you.
But hey, maybe it is the way you were brought up. I dont blame you.

As for the matter, have you seem something good come out from previous closed source AmigaOS 3D API attempts? Just remember Warp3D, this is just history repeating over and over again.
 

Offline ddniUK

Re: Introducing Warp3D Nova for AmigaOS 4.1
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2016, 08:31:00 AM »
From what I can tell people have been happily using Warp3d for a good few years. Just because you're on the wrong team and didn't get a kick of the ball doesn't give the right to be obnoxious and ignorant.
 

Offline amigakit

Re: Introducing Warp3D Nova for AmigaOS 4.1
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2016, 09:32:04 AM »
Warp3D Nova running under AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition on an AmigaOne X1000

https://youtu.be/G_STXjTaVoY
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Offline wawrzon

Re: Introducing Warp3D Nova for AmigaOS 4.1
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2016, 09:43:17 AM »
actually i wonder how much warp3d has been used really. in its time there were very few programs to use it. on 68k there was a port of mesa called storm mesa, which could actually be used for porting 3d programs (i made few attempts) but since it was using warp3d as backend the results were very limited.

now, what concerns this announcement. its a move in some more reasonable direction than usual. but at this a bit slow time of the year there is usually some announcement like that to fill the gap before amiwest. lets see what and when the actual release happens and under what conditions. if anyone  remembers, last year there was an extended memory addressing patch released for os4, which was also as enthusiastically welcome, because it made it sound as if os4 receives some contemporary os features. it was quite a publicity issue, but im still not aware of a single piese of software using this since then.

therefore, remembering also "xena" fiasco ("the community will show us what can be done with it") im a bit sceptical about expectations towards third party support as of today.
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: Introducing Warp3D Nova for AmigaOS 4.1
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2016, 09:50:58 AM »
Quote from: amigakit;806219
Warp3D Nova running under AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition on an AmigaOne X1000

https://youtu.be/G_STXjTaVoY


nice, but these are rather basic demos demonstrating basic opengl capabilities. gears look pretty much the same with storm mesa/warp3d on an 68k amiga. i have spotted some bump/reflection map on the warp3d animation itself, but its just about it so far..
 

Offline amigakit

Re: Introducing Warp3D Nova for AmigaOS 4.1
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2016, 10:23:10 AM »
The Logo demo uses Shaders, buffer objects et al of course so no fixed pipeline, truly groundbreaking on AmigaOS...  You cannot see that visually but you can see the results of it running.  The Logo demo was created for us to test functionality of Warp3D Nova.
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Offline BSzili

Re: Introducing Warp3D Nova for AmigaOS 4.1
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2016, 10:31:35 AM »
Quote from: ddniUK;806217
From what I can tell people have been happily using Warp3d for a good few years. Just because you're on the wrong team and didn't get a kick of the ball doesn't give the right to be obnoxious and ignorant.
Most programs didn't use Warp3D directly, but through OpenGL implementations, like MiniGL or StormMesa.
I see the jimmies have been rustled.
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: Introducing Warp3D Nova for AmigaOS 4.1
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2016, 10:54:51 AM »
actually there is a handful warp3d demos and mostly simple games, not worth any upgrade. almost none has ever programmed directly against w3d, with one notable exception of alain, the autor of wazp. so if daytona writes at least a wrapper for opengl2 (2004) it may have some impact on software, but as such even if laying foundation for this wrapper the availability of warp3d nova is so far simply a nice news item. a direct implementation of gallium/mesa without detouring the interface through some unnecessary orthodox api (and likely introducing additional bottlenecks by the way) would be more sensible for porting software which is using opengl anyway.
 

Offline BSzili

Re: Introducing Warp3D Nova for AmigaOS 4.1
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2016, 11:04:04 AM »
It's not like Mesa must to be implemented on top of a Gallim3D-compatible driver. Mesa had drivers long before Gallium3D was conceived. It was only introduced to simplify driver creation by implementing boilerplate for a state tracker. My point is that one could use Warp3D Nova as a low-level layer to make a Mesa driver, just like they did with StormMesa back in the day.
I see the jimmies have been rustled.
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: Introducing Warp3D Nova for AmigaOS 4.1
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2016, 11:12:01 AM »
Quote from: BSzili;806226
It's not like Mesa must to be implemented on top of a Gallim3D-compatible driver. Mesa had drivers long before Gallium3D was conceived. It was only introduced to simplify driver creation by implementing boilerplate for a state tracker. My point is that one could use Warp3D Nova as a low-level layer to make a Mesa driver, just like they did with StormMesa back in the day.


thats what the plan seems to be. still how convenient even an updated warp3d as a driver layer is it remains to be seen. i wonder if the old software depending on minigl and the old w3d is supposed to go through this now, as replacement. since after so many years an independent implementation might be more sensible than trying to keep up the compatibility with the old one. i trust this has been well considered.
 

Offline BSzili

Re: Introducing Warp3D Nova for AmigaOS 4.1
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2016, 11:42:02 AM »
Warp3D Nova offers no backwards compatibility, just as OpenGL ES2 is not compatible with OpenGL ES1, thus mobile drivers implement both. I don't think Mesa was even considered, otherwise they would have gone straight for a Gallium3D driver, which would have worked with Mesa out of the box. IMHO that would have made more sense, since it'd have offered backwards compatibility with old software with a nice speedup, plus the new shader-based OpenGL APIs. Best of both worlds.

Since neither Warp3D Nova, nor the planned OpenGL ES2 wrapper implements the fixed function pipeline, old software can only use it, if someone provides a full OpenGL implementation. This can be Mesa, Regal, or whatever else there's out there.
I see the jimmies have been rustled.
 

Offline Aegis

Re: Introducing Warp3D Nova for AmigaOS 4.1
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2016, 12:30:43 PM »
Not sure what to think about this announcement really - nice for x1000 and x5000 users I guess (assuming that software is developed that takes advantage of it) but along with the Enhancer package, this feels like A-Eon trying to take the future direction of AmigaOS 4.x into its own hands.

Which is understandable I guess since they're heavily invested in PPC hardware but A-Eon's boards aren't the only game in town - there's Classic, Pegasos, Sam and of course UAE and others - and developments like this are just further fragmenting the user base. There's already a handful of applications and games that won't run on some of these platforms due to them requiring hardware 3D and/or compositing - bringing Nova to the mix just means a smaller audience for software reliant on it.

Until there's PPC hardware that offers a sane price/performance ratio (and Tabor isn't it) there's never going to be a 'standard' AmigaOS platform. I love the drive to do *something* to move AmigaOS forward but the money and effort being expended on stuff like this is of benefit to a tiny fraction of the Amiga community. Such a shame.
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Offline Niding

Re: Introducing Warp3D Nova for AmigaOS 4.1
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2016, 12:39:34 PM »
Aegis;

Cant really say I agree.

AeonKit went for PPC, and while they seem to work well with Acube, they cant be expected to bend over backwards to accomodate their customers for example.
Same goes for the owners of 10-20 year old PPC hardware. At one point they have to decide which standard to set, and since noone else is picking up the slack, I dont see any reason to be negative about their move.
Yes, some of us might find the hardware of choice to be suboptimal (main point seems to be FPU), but they have now built the API with Daniel working on OpenGL. He is one of the most active GN gamecoders, so im rather positive with the way forward. AeonKit seems to be the only people in town working on AOS4x, so if anything, they will consolidate the PPC crowd.

With regards to Vampire/Classic;

Matthew has indicated hes aware of the potential pool of users/customers that is surfacing on the classic market, so im sure there will be improvements there too.
Likewise AROS activity is picking up, so its going to be intresting times both for NG and classic.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 12:42:01 PM by Niding »
 

Offline Bennymee

Re: Introducing Warp3D Nova for AmigaOS 4.1
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2016, 12:52:31 PM »
Quote from: Aegis;806230
Not sure what to think about this announcement really - nice for x1000 and x5000 users I guess (assuming that software is developed that takes advantage of it) but along with the Enhancer package, this feels like A-Eon trying to take the future direction of AmigaOS 4.x into its own hands.

Which is understandable I guess since they're heavily invested in PPC hardware but A-Eon's boards aren't the only game in town - there's Classic, Pegasos, Sam and of course UAE and others - and developments like this are just further fragmenting the user base. There's already a handful of applications and games that won't run on some of these platforms due to them requiring hardware 3D and/or compositing - bringing Nova to the mix just means a smaller audience for software reliant on it.

Until there's PPC hardware that offers a sane price/performance ratio (and Tabor isn't it) there's never going to be a 'standard' AmigaOS platform. I love the drive to do *something* to move AmigaOS forward but the money and effort being expended on stuff like this is of benefit to a tiny fraction of the Amiga community. Such a shame.

Well, if one could find a *working* PCI->PCI Express converter you could use newer cards on most Amiga with PCI slots or PCI boards...
Amiga 500, 1200, 4000, Amigaone, Morphos, CyberstormPPC, Blizzardppc, OS4.x
 

Offline Acill

Re: Introducing Warp3D Nova for AmigaOS 4.1
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2016, 01:09:48 PM »
The argument I think a lot of people have is the closed nature of it, and that no attempts at least publicly were made to bring it to MorphOS or AROS. I clearly remember talk of not wanting to be split between red and blue at Amiwest. This still seems like a one sided race to me.

Hopefully I am proven wrong, I have interest in all sides and own hardware that supports all platforms, both NG and classic.
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