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AuthorTopic: How to create a fast (but stable) OS3.9 AGA setup  (Read 31738 times)

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Offline amigadave

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Re: How to create a fast (but stable) OS3.9 AGA setup
« Reply #45 on: December 24, 2009, 10:34:43 PM »
Quote from: Moto;531391
@NovaCoder

Very impressive and great job!  It's nice to see this instead of just another "use OS 3.1 post" when asking about how to speed up 3.9.

Questions:

* Looks like your bootup time is considerably faster than my 1200's CF card.  I was wondering if you could post your startup-sequence so I could compare.

* I have the B1260 card as well and I am not using blizkick because I thought the card does this ROM->RAM mapping automatically if the jumper is set.  A little confused on this.

-- edit: I wish we had a central site or main FAQ that this kind of great info.  One of the most frustrating things for returning Amiga users (like myself) is trying to find info on the net.  My knowledge had stopped at ks2.0 and this has been the biggest hurtle for me.
So many really old FAQs that have dead links or outdated information.

Hey Moto, looks like our A1200's are very similar in their specs.  Would you be interested in sharing notes on how we are progressing with setting up fast AGA OS3.9+BB1+BB2+BB3 installations?  My A1200 includes:

Blizzard 1260 w/scsi module + 256mb FastRAM
8gb CF card on IDE to CF adapter
250mb external SCSI ZIP Optical Drive (scsi unit = #5)
external SCSI Compaq CDROM drive (scsi unit = #3)
PCMCIA wireless network card from AmigaKit + EasyNET software (but I use Miami w/DHCP)
replaced floppy with new one from AmigaKit in Oct., but need to rework eject button
IndivisionAGA connected to LG 19" CRT (monitor is old and might have issues, looking for cheap LCD to replace it)
Subway USB controller w/Poseidon
Cocolino 9pin to PS2 Wheel Mouse adapter + 3 button wheel mouse
Digital to Analog Joystick adapter + Logitech Wingman
150watt PSU to run it all
How are you helping the Amiga community? :)
 

Offline NovaCoder

Re: How to create a fast (but stable) OS3.9 AGA setup
« Reply #46 on: December 24, 2009, 11:18:22 PM »
IDEFix won't work with most CF cards, that might be your problem, check this thread for more details.

Also as per my original post, you would benefit from using BlizKick.
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Nice Ports on AmiNet!
 

Offline Moto

Re: How to create a fast (but stable) OS3.9 AGA setup
« Reply #47 on: December 24, 2009, 11:56:47 PM »
@AmigaDave:

I've been a little distracted with my 4000T setup recently.  My 1200 came preconfigured with OS3.9 from Amigakit.  Installing OS3.1 onto a CF card from scratch was a very serious endeavor for me.  

My 1200:   B1260 w/128mb, IDE CF-card (AmigaKit), Subway USB, Indivision AGA->Acer AL2216W, Logitech USB->PS2->Cocolino, Linksys EtherLink III, AmiTCP (same version as network boot disk).  Right now I have BB1 & 2 and recently installed MagicWB (which nags me now).  

I will DL the latest BB#3 and report back.
500, 1200, 4000T
 

Offline AmigaMance

Re: How to create a fast (but stable) OS3.9 AGA setup
« Reply #48 on: December 25, 2009, 12:14:23 AM »
@amigadave
 Some observations:
1. There is no point to install IDEfix and scsi.device concurrenty. Remove scsi.device from the resident modules. If the IDEFix command won't work, use LoadIDE or read the blizkick.guide on how to convert it into a resident module.
 Alternatively, you can remove IDEFix and keep scsi.device.

2. Since you are using Loadmodule, why don't you just load all your modules with it? The setpatch line should become:
c:setpatch quiet noromupdate
« Last Edit: December 25, 2009, 12:27:59 AM by AmigaMance »
A1200 PPC user.
 

Offline mike-

Re: How to create a fast (but stable) OS3.9 AGA setup
« Reply #49 on: December 25, 2009, 01:09:41 AM »
If you have blizzard/cs*, you can use blizkick to load the modules, and patch for more speed, speedyide amongst others, is terribly usefull.

Also , keep an eye on the version of the scsi.device, exec and workbench.library. I had to use morelibspace REBOOT at the first line, blizkick at the second, then setpatch i believe, followed by tlsf copymem and patch060 ( latest 060/040 goodies on aminet)
« Last Edit: December 25, 2009, 01:19:27 AM by mike- »
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Offline amigadave

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Re: How to create a fast (but stable) OS3.9 AGA setup
« Reply #50 on: December 25, 2009, 03:50:15 AM »
Quote from: NovaCoder;535056
IDEFix won't work with most CF cards, that might be your problem, check this thread for more details.

Also as per my original post, you would benefit from using BlizKick.

Per my post, I have not installed IDEfix, I have just located it and unarchived it to look at what it had to offer.  So IDEfix can't be my problem, unless OS3.9, BoingBag1, BoingBag2, or BoingBag3 have installed it by default.

I still don't know how scsi.device is being loaded or where it is being loaded from, as I cannot locate it anywhere on my hard drive, I mean CF card.

Is it loaded from the KickstartROM?  Is it created on the fly during the boot process from an archived file on the CF card?  I do not know the capabilities of the AmigaDOS "Find" function to know if it can search inside of archived files too.

I don't know how to extract the scsi.device from the "resident files" to use with the LoadModule program.  As I have said before, I have not installed anything other than the OS3.9, BoingBag1, BoingBag2 and BoingBag3 using the installation scripts provided with each.

So, Minuous, where am I going wrong?  Does the BoingBag3 installation script only work on A3000 & A4000 computers?  Is it my Blizzard 1260 card that is the problem?  I am lost and don't know which step to try next.

If LoadModule is not the answer, I would need an alternative for installing patched files and moving things into FastRAM instead of ChipRAM to free up my ChipRAM and to hopefully speed up the operation of my A1200.

As always, any and all suggestions welcome.
How are you helping the Amiga community? :)
 

Offline mike-

Re: How to create a fast (but stable) OS3.9 AGA setup
« Reply #51 on: December 25, 2009, 10:53:15 AM »
Resident in the ROM, however, the Boingbag 1-2 process, updates the scsi.device, it detects what amiga you have, and updates the scsi.device thereafter ( look in the amigaos rom update file and theres a scsi.device-1200-600- 2000-3000 & 4000 & 4000T. You can use ROMSPLIT and or REMUS to _extract modules_ and build a rom, however, the shell-seq i believe, need to be pached to be put on a rom again. ROMSPLIT will allow you to extract and patch, the scsi.device patch is important. Good luck. Use http://aminet.net/disk/misc/check4gb.lha to check if your currently good on the scsi.device, there is also a patch, for the scsi.device in tlsfmem, this has been updated and its on aminet, and i believe mentioned in this post. http://aminet.net/package/driver/media/SCSI4345p anyway
« Last Edit: December 25, 2009, 10:57:44 AM by mike- »
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Offline amigadave

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Re: How to create a fast (but stable) OS3.9 AGA setup
« Reply #52 on: December 25, 2009, 09:55:43 PM »
Quote from: mike-;535080
Resident in the ROM, however, the Boingbag 1-2 process, updates the scsi.device, it detects what amiga you have, and updates the scsi.device thereafter ( look in the amigaos rom update file and theres a scsi.device-1200-600- 2000-3000 & 4000 & 4000T. You can use ROMSPLIT and or REMUS to _extract modules_ and build a rom, however, the shell-seq i believe, need to be pached to be put on a rom again. ROMSPLIT will allow you to extract and patch, the scsi.device patch is important. Good luck. Use http://aminet.net/disk/misc/check4gb.lha to check if your currently good on the scsi.device, there is also a patch, for the scsi.device in tlsfmem, this has been updated and its on aminet, and i believe mentioned in this post. http://aminet.net/package/driver/media/SCSI4345p anyway

Thanks Mike, I knew it had to be something like that, but did not know for sure what it was.  So, if I understand you correctly, the AmigaOS ROM Update extracts the scsi.device and patches it then loads it into resident memory for use by the system.  It appears that the BoingBag1 and BoingBag2 AmigaOS ROM Update files would do the same thing.  My DEVS directory has;

AmigaOS ROM Update
AmigaOS ROM Update.old
AmigaOS ROM Update.BB39-2

The .BB39-2 file is exactly the same as the active ROM Update file, so I would imagine that the .old file is the original OS3.9 file, or the BoingBag1 ROM Update file which replaced the original OS3.9 ROM Update file.  Not sure why the BoingBag2 install script would leave a second copy of the ROM Update file in the directory, but it does not matter.

My point in all of this is to point out that contrary to what I thought, after installing BoingBag3 there is still more work to be done to complete getting an up-to-date OS3.9 installation finished.

I thought that after running the recently created BoingBag3 install script I would have a finished installation that I could further enhance with some of the other suggested programs, patch files and utilities, if I wanted to, but not because I had to.  At least on my system, that is clearly not the case.

I am not complaining, I appreciate all the work that has gone into the Unofficial BoingBag3.  I just want it's authors to know what I have experienced so they can use the information to further improve BB3, or place notes with it that will help other users in the future.

I think I am really close to understanding what I am trying to do to get everything updated, patched and hopefully stable.  I am going to attempt to build my own custom ROM file and use one of the ROM kicker programs to load it at boot time.  I don't have the equipment to burn my own EPROM chips to replace the 3.1 Kickstart ROMs in my A1200.

I guess there must be legal reasons that nobody has yet started to create custom Kickstart ROM chips for various Amiga models with all the latest and greatest patched files contained in them.  It would be nice if Hyperion would allow this to be done by anyone with the skills to do it, as a gift to the community.  There could be competing different flavors of OS3.9 Kickstart ROMs out there to pick and choose from with different Kickstart ROM builders bragging how their ROMs are better than so-in-so's ROM chips and telling everyone why their ROM chips are the best.

It may no longer be clear who owns the rights to the Kickstart ROM chips and who can legally produce new ones, or say that new ones cannot be produced.  Shame it is that way.

To everyone working on the Unofficial BoingBag3 project, please keep up the great work.  This is a great service to the Amiga community and I am sure that many users will benefit from your efforts.
How are you helping the Amiga community? :)
 

Offline Minuous

Re: How to create a fast (but stable) OS3.9 AGA setup
« Reply #53 on: December 26, 2009, 12:51:26 AM »
Ah, we've changed threads, I see :-)

Quote from: amigadave;535102
So, Minuous, where am I going wrong? Does the BoingBag3 installation script only work on A3000 & A4000 computers? Is it my Blizzard 1260 card that is the problem? I am lost and don't know which step to try next.

It should work on any Amiga that can run OS3.9 in the first place. It should explicitly ask you what model of Amiga you use (as there has never been a reliable and supported way to determine this via the system, so best to just ask the user). Then, assuming you have selected A1200, the A1200 version of scsi.device should be copied to DEVS: (You do need to be running in either intermediate or expert mode for this to happen, though.)
  But you say this isn't happening, I need to see the install_log_file to determine what's going on on your system.

Quote
I guess there must be legal reasons that nobody has yet started to create custom Kickstart ROM chips for various Amiga models with all the latest and greatest patched files contained in them.

I did this a few years ago, actually, and AmiKit decided to cause lots of dramas for everyone, getting various people's sites shut down left and right even after the Kickstart was removed. (Including, as it turns out, a medical forum, etc. ie. stuff which had nothing to do with Amiga.) He sees himself as some kind of "Cloanto representative" since he is getting paid by them to shut down sites. If you want me to send you my Kickstart 3.9, I'm happy to do so. However, BB3 is designed to work with Kickstart 3.1; some minor modifications to your startup-sequence would be necessary to use it with KS3.9.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2009, 04:05:00 AM by Minuous »
 

Offline Minuous

Re: How to create a fast (but stable) OS3.9 AGA setup
« Reply #54 on: December 26, 2009, 04:10:16 AM »
>The install seems to go okay, but the two lines that are supposed to be added to the startup-sequence make it so I can't boot off that partition anymore as it stops with error messages.

Can you please send me your old S:Startup-sequence that was working for you. Which hard disk partition can't you boot from? Do you use an IDE splitter? Is your AmigaOS ROM Update the original OS3.9 one or the BB2 one? What error message are you actually getting?

>Also, can you explain to me why my system has no scsi.device after a clean OS3.9 installation?

Not really, without looking at the logfile, because it works here... :-(

You might try changing the "scsi" in the setpatch line to "scsi.device"...
« Last Edit: December 26, 2009, 04:40:25 AM by Minuous »
 

Offline Framiga

Re: How to create a fast (but stable) OS3.9 AGA setup
« Reply #55 on: December 26, 2009, 04:09:22 PM »
@amigadave

type in a shell

version scsi.device full

and you will get what scsi.device is active (there's no disk-based scsi.device)
 

Offline amigadave

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Re: How to create a fast (but stable) OS3.9 AGA setup
« Reply #56 on: December 27, 2009, 03:09:18 AM »
Quote from: Minuous;535108
>The install seems to go okay, but the two lines that are supposed to be added to the startup-sequence make it so I can't boot off that partition anymore as it stops with error messages.

Can you please send me your old S:Startup-sequence that was working for you. Which hard disk partition can't you boot from? Do you use an IDE splitter? Is your AmigaOS ROM Update the original OS3.9 one or the BB2 one? What error message are you actually getting?

>Also, can you explain to me why my system has no scsi.device after a clean OS3.9 installation?

Not really, without looking at the logfile, because it works here... :-(

You might try changing the "scsi" in the setpatch line to "scsi.device"...

I have had some success getting the updated OS3.9+BB1+BB2+BB3 partition to boot by removing some of the LoadModule commands and letting SetPatch do it's thing on those parts of the ROM files, so I am hesitant to start over yet again and I think I am going to try to adjust what I have if possible (using BlizKick).  The first two times through BB3 I checked the A1200 checkbox, but the last time I did a clean install, I left the "Other" check box checked.  This might have made some difference, but none that I have noticed yet.  I have never seen any scsi.device copied to Devs: during any part of the OS3.9, BB1, BB2, or BB3 installs.  I now have install logfiles for each step along that path that I will send to you if I can find an email address for you.  I don't know how to send attachments with PMail here.  I will also send you my old Startup-sequence file, but I don't know if that is going to help any.

I have BlizKick downloaded and have been reading through it's guide.  Is there any advantage to using LoadModule over using the parts of BlizKick that do the same functions?  If I can master BlizKick, I think I will try to rip my 3.1 ROM image, split it into modules and then reassemble a patched ROM image and map it to Fast RAM using the Blizzard MapROM feature and instructions within the BlizKick guide.  I am hoping to get it so it will not have to reboot twice, but will still be able to run Shapeshifter or Fusion and will boot as fast as possible and run a stable, patched OS3.9 system as fast as is possible.

This has turned out to be more work than I thought it was going to be, but I don't mind as the goal will be a rewarding experience to use.  I am sure that it must be something I am doing wrong during the installation process of OS3.9, and all of the BoingBags, but I don't know what it is yet.  I should have run all of them in Expert mode I guess, so I could have seen and controlled more of what was being installed.  I did not see any instructions for BB3 that recommended that the clean install of OS3.9 and BB's 1 & 2 should be installed using Expert, or even Intermediate mode instead of Novice mode.

If your email address is not easily available here or elsewhere, send it to me so I can send you my log files and startup-sequence.

Thanks for the offer to look at them and to try to help.

Edit: @Framiga, the results are scsi.device 43.43 and I meant to say that I have no scsi.device copied into my Devs: directory, not that I don't have any scsi.device at all.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2009, 03:19:54 AM by amigadave »
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Offline NovaCoder

Re: How to create a fast (but stable) OS3.9 AGA setup
« Reply #57 on: December 27, 2009, 04:11:32 AM »
Quote from: amigadave;535163


I have BlizKick downloaded and have been reading through it's guide.  Is there any advantage to using LoadModule over using the parts of BlizKick that do the same functions?  If I can master BlizKick, I think I will try to rip my 3.1 ROM image, split it into modules and then reassemble a patched ROM image and map it to Fast RAM using the Blizzard MapROM feature and instructions within the BlizKick guide.  I am hoping to get it so it will not have to reboot twice, but will still be able to run Shapeshifter or Fusion and will boot as fast as possible and run a stable, patched OS3.9 system as fast as is possible.



Yep that's what I do, just use BlizKick instead of LoadModule and build a BB3 ROM to be copied to FASTRAM on startup ;)
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Offline mike-

Re: How to create a fast (but stable) OS3.9 AGA setup
« Reply #58 on: December 27, 2009, 11:25:44 AM »
@amigadave

Blizkick can be a bit confusing/intimidating at first glance. But you can basically copy the loadmodule module line over, and use there rest of the patches after the kickstart has been saved with saverom, the documentation explains it very well. Modules like FusuionReverse ( i believe its called) are shapeshifter specific , or mac emulation..

Hey if you figure out how to get shapeshifter running fast, please holler... I´ve tried 7.1 and 8 i believe, and they all ran slow as feck... Using a 512 meg image... I wonder if creating a partition would be better..

But again, the problem i ran into, was that i kept dropping in certain versions of libraries and devices.. Which is really scary if you have stuff over 4gigs.. I ended up with a 5 step reboot, but thats fine given the speed, and functionality. Say i dropped the morelibspace REBOOT, it should have worked with os3.9 without a reboot, but that screwed up my scsi.device, exec, and workbench.library.. Also try out various 68060 libraries, the unofficial ones on phase5.a1k.org/ gave me a substantial boost over various others, however, i think the latest mmu libs are are as fast if not faster, and with of course, various fixes no doubt.

I´ll post the beginnig of my startup-sequence once i have the linux box running again.. Maybe someone can give me some pointers.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2009, 12:01:04 PM by mike- »
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Offline rvo_nl

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Re: How to create a fast (but stable) OS3.9 AGA setup
« Reply #59 on: December 27, 2009, 12:42:19 PM »
Hi all, great topic! I've got a quick question: what are you all using to do benchmarks with? sysinfo? sysspeed (which doesnt run on my machine, for some reason) or AIBB? do they also serve as a 'stability test' ?
Amiga 1200 (1d4) Kickstart 3.1 (40.68), Elbox Power/Winner tower (450w psu), BlizzardPPC 603e+ @240mhz & 060 @50mhz, 256MB, Bvision, IDE-fix Express, IndivisionAGA, 120GB IDE, cd, dvd, Cocolino, Micronik Keycase, PCMCIA Ethernet, Ratte monitor switcher, Prelude1200, triple boot WB3.1 / OS3.9 / OS4.1, Win95 / MacOS8.1