AmigaOS 4.1 for 68k, and i got mad :)

[dcr8520]

MUI4 is available for OS4 !? wasn't it stalled at 3.9? damn, i lost the news about that.

Interesting/funny initiative indeed the one you had here.., you was also fast adding OpenSSL 1b4 ;-)

Edit: i think the OWB entry is wrong..

Edit2: damn Bernd, you was fast regarding MUI4

[Gulliver]

@bernd_afa
I am not wrong, OS4.1 comes with MUI 4.
I have just checked on my OS4.1 cd! And yes they are quite similar, but a ton of 68k bugs were fixed on the 3.9/4.0 process, just see the changelog/history. However, I agree that Zune is a better option, and has some sort of MUI4 functionality, but then it is only for GFX card users.
I think you are right in saying that 16bit screens are faster and the way to go, but then most Amigas, dont have a GFX card!, and that is my point. Not only 68000 barebone users, in fact, there are quite a lot of 68030 and 68040 users out there with plenty of Fast RAM, but without a GFX card! So please reconsider!
Anyway, i added afa to the website with the corresponding link

@dcr8520
OWB got the link fixed! Thanks

[Vulture]

@gulliver

Actually OS4 has MUI 3.9, MOS has MUI 4.  So, what about the thing I asked you? Are the files you listed from OS4 for 68k and run under 3.9? Or did you mean something different?

[wawrzon]

@wawrzon
Please convince Bernd on adding afa support for people that use screens lower than 16bit!
Could you point me out where the last powerwindows version is, i am willing to give it one more try, maybe i was using some old version!
Aminet version of netsurf works great on my WinUAE setup, but it is a pitty it cannot work on my AGA Amiga

i have my powerwindows_ng from aminet here:
http://aminet.net/util/misc/PowerWindowsNG.lha
most likely it is what you have tried. the installation with need to patch the kickstart to reach the whole functionality is a little annoying and subject to try and error, i admit. but when set up it works flawlessly. might be that the version for unpatched rom is less stable, how it is mentioned in the documentation afair.

powerwindows biggest limitation is that as it needs kickstart to be patched either in rom or on the fly by blizkick or similar it is useless on uae i suspect. this is probably the reason why it is underestimated. but as it is been open sourced soewhere around 2000 it could be integrated in a bigger project such as for instance afa_os. also aros is providing similar features, how about using this approach? bernd, that would be my requested featur for afa_4.7. i swear i never witnessed that it breaks any amiga compatiblity.

@Bernd_afa
what concerns <16 bit support it is not about unexpanded amiga fanboyism but only about ergonomics, usability and aesthetics. even on gfx expanded systems there is sometimes need to open 8bit screen or even aga or ecs. it should functionally supported for the sole reason that it is available. otherwise it is like letting a program to run into a known error without handling it. a good program should not look trashed beyond return, on any display. it is unacceptable.

[Gulliver]

Yes, they are usefull under 3.9, but not all of them, so test with caution. And as said before, ContextMenus works provided you install popupmenu.library which you can find on aminet and according to Doobrey/Ratte, trackdisk.device doesnt. But please have in mind i also picked up stuff from prerelease OS4 versions too.

And.... once and for all:

OS 4 -> MUI 3.9
OS 4.1 -> MUI 4 -> MUI 20.294 (26.06.2008)  (c) 1992-2008 Stefan Stuntz, AmigaOS4/PPC

I have both AmigaOS cds so i am not kidding! (Anyway it is no big issue itself)

[Gulliver]

@wawrzon
Thanks, i will use powerwindows, will tweak it, bend it, until it works as intended!

[dannyp1]

I just checked on my 4.0 CD and the PlayCD program is V52.2, not 50.5.  It also is a ELF PPC only program but it loads and seems to work fine on my OS3.9 A3000T.

[AmigaMance]

@Vulture
As allways, your mileage may vary applies using OS4 stuff on 68k, but yes that stuff is usable. And, ContextMenus works with AmigaOS 3.9, i tested it myself, it requires you have popupmenu.library installed.

 Bug-fix patch for this library:
http://www.sintonen.fi/sw/pmlib-10.8.6-fix.lha

There is a patch for version 10.10.1 in the same website, but where do we find this version?

By the way, be carefull when picking up the 68k stuff. Files which were 68k on some prerelease versions, are PPC only on final OS4 CDs. To find out which one is PPC only, simply open it with a suitable text editor and if it says ELF at the very beginning of the file (from the second byte onwards), then it is PPC only.

 Or use this:
http://os4depot.net/index.php?function=showfile&file=utility/shell/list68k.lha
I haven't tried it myself.

[kolla]

@kolla
I see your point. Sometime ago, i remeber i created something like 68000 OS 3.9 by adding 3.1 stuff and third party stuff, never too usable though. But, yes you are right, most of todays stuff comes for 020+. So anyway, where did you get to with your OS3.9 on MiniMig project?

It works?

The kickstart I've created is fully updated with all relevant 3.9+ updates, like ram-handler, shell, fastfilesystem, scsi.device, bootmenu etc, and it boots fine. Most of programs in C: also work, with some exceptions (one is odd one is MakeDir - what could MakeDir benefit from 020+??), and also most libs work, and most datatypes. Workbench.library and icon.library also work, as long as I dont update to those beyond BB2. MultiView also works.

What doesnt work are all the ReAction programs of OS3.9. I went through all the classes and replaced those who caused crashes with those from older ClassAct, and that works well for all non-OS Reaction/ClassAct programs, but the big obstacle for the OS programs is the 020+ libs:resource.library it seems.

Oh, and AWNPipe works too, albeit rather slowly

VincEd also works, but I think I downgraded to a version from Aminet for it to do so, I'm not quite sure. Anyways, it's a bit too much for the poor thing, so I rather use regular shell + KingCON, or ZShell from aminet. On my wish list though, is ROM-able KingCON for 68000, so that it can be dropped in for CON: and RAW: directly rom kickstart. This is possible with KingCON 1.8 that comes with Amikit, but that one is 020+ only.

[Gulliver]

@dannyp1
Sounds a bit odd! i tested it myself and got: file is not executable (CLI) and failed return code 10 (WB). By the way, the executable attribute was properly set. So please check again

@AmigaMance
I dont know either where to get popupmenu.library 10.10.1
List68k works only in PPC

@kolla
Wow, you must have spent quite some time to accomplish that! if i have more time, i will play with that concept once more. Anyway, publishing the entire package list for 3.9 on 68000  would be an interesting addition to put in on my website!

[bernd_afa]

>it should functionally supported for the sole reason that it is available. otherwise it is like >letting a program to run into a known error without handling it. a good program should not >look trashed beyond return, on any display. it is unacceptable.

Yes of course all bitdepths bit work without crash.i use too some programs that work on 8 bit aga screen some time.and here it is better to do not show any skin and use old AOS look.
when AGA program use a 16 color screen, then a visual prefs skin look too not nice.

But what i mean is use Workbench in 8 bit is not need or if a User need it, he dont need the new skin, because the skins need so much Pens that there are no pens free for other images or Icons.

so all in all also use of birdie/visual prefs is not usefull when you use only 256 colors or AGA.it slow system too much down on AGA and use too much Pens only for Skin/window buttons show show.and missing pens give then more ugly look.

and thats what AFA do with new skin system, when use 256 or less colors, windows look same as on original AOS and need not more pens and are as fast as on normal AOS

[Ratte]

bernd_afa:
i posted an idea on a1k how to convert 24/15bit to an 8bit (216 color) palette.
http://www.a1k.org/forum/showthread.php?p=297809
with locked colortable this should be a way to handle 8bit screens.
just an idea.

@kolla:
icon45.5 and wb.lib 45.127 are the latest 68000 compatible

[kolla]

@kolla:
icon45.5 and wb.lib 45.127 are the latest 68000 compatible

I know - however, as I pointed out on this EAB thread (sorry for the rerun here, hehe)...

45.1 - works fine, displays newicons/colouricons, png icons seems to be ignored, fair enough
 
45.1.6 - works fine as long as no newicons/colouricons show upare present, as that leads to a reboot, a strangely colourfull reboot even
 
45.5 - works fine, doesnt show newicons/colouricons though, as far as I can see
 
45.5.5 - same as above, and then something that really pussles me - when I just run "version icon.library" in shell, it says "icon.library 45.4", but only after workbench is load - what's going on?

[Piru]

45.5.5 - same as above, and then something that really pussles me - when I just run "version icon.library" in shell, it says "icon.library 45.4", but only after workbench is load - what's going on?

Version command is a bit special. Unless if you specify FILE/S option it will look into memory first. If nothing is found from memory it will only then look for disk file (all locations LIBS: multiassign points to, and the first matching entry is used).

This is what happens.

Additionally sometimes library $VER: tag and library lib_Version/lib_Revision are in disagreement. In this case you get different version/revision depending on FILE/S.

[bernd_afa]

>with locked colortable this should be a way to handle 8bit screens.
>just an idea.

yes its possible but please write a formular that work fast to find the correct color.
256 colors are only fast enough if you still have a GFX Card.when you want use AGA all more than 64 colors slow much down.

But if you have a GFX Card you can use 16 bit mode and need no 8 bit.

when you load a Icon, or image, for every palette entry need search in the palette a color  that is close to the color in the image.You need decide on what tolerance you want alloc a new pen entry.you can also use a fixed pallette, but this slow color finding lots down, because all 256 entries must search for best matching color.

when you have a image that is truecolor and have 1 Million Pixels(the cheapest handy have 1 megapixel resolution), then for every of the 1 Million pixels you need in the 256 color palette search for a matching color.

this make average 128 Millions searches.and when your CPU have only 50 MHZ, need more than 3 sec.but it should be sure, that for search of the best color every color check need more than 10 CPU clocks.So we are at 15sec to show this image.but not all users have a 060/50 CPU.so its more slower.

this work as soon there are not much diffrent images to show.But sooner or later you have diffrent colored images and get also with optimized palette problems.

try some pictures with much green or a face or something like this.

so you see optimize palette is way too slow to be usefull.only can do is do a formular and do the 256 color alloc as 2 bit red 3 bit green 3 bit blit value.

but this look ugly too, because most Icons do not fit in this sheme and look ugly.

also when a User have AGA he can only use 640*256 64 colors, all is gone more worse.

its very bad quality, so i cant believe if there somebody really use his amiga today as Main Computer and have no GFX Card

I have ask the question often, but get no answer.

Who have only a amiga and no other computer and use only 256 color screens ?
maybe we can make a poll.

and if somebody have another system he can use UAE on this and 16 bit screen to see the pictures in full quality.

[quarkx]

I believe a lot of people still use their Amiga with no Graphics card, other then the indivision flicker fixer. Have you seen the prices of cards these days? They are almost impossible to find as people are hording them. I can get a hold of just about (excluding tower systems) every model of Amiga way easier that finding a Picasso card. In the last year alone, I have gotten a hold of just about everything but a card. I may be getting in a 3000T very soon (keeping fingers crossed) and I thank God it has a flicker fixer built right in so I don't have to pay for another Indivision card for it. At least the Indivision cards are easy to get. Price is another issue all together.