A little late on posting, but oh well, so was Auzieman
So, Auzieman, the reason why you rejoined/posted is because you're hopeful. Fortunately not as naive as the rest of the people here. First of all, to those that are calling a lot of other people negative, realize this: we're not negative, you're just gullible and naive and we're trying to open up your eyes. Most "negative" people here have NO direct benefit from making you open your eyes. No, our only benefit is making the Amiga community better, which, guess what? Is good for you too! Now, there are some other people, who try to sell you stuff. Those are a different bunch, but they seem to hold sway over many of you... Sad. Personally, I feel that NOTHING of what was "answered" here would have been regarded as the truth by normal human beings. Seriously. I challenge you. Take a NON-Amigan (friend or family member), and ask him or her to read the Q and A. Then ask them a simple question: bull or not bull? I'm certain you'll get the same answer over and over and over again.
Before we continue, please be aware: this will be long, but I've tried to make as meaningful comments as possible (aka used my brain, proof read, spellchecked, etc), so as not to waste your time. Despite this, you might not like what you hear. That isn't my goal though. Making everyone, including myself, think is my main goal.
Now, I personally don't know Mr. Bill, or any of the other cronies involved, and I mean good and bad guys too. Like many of you, I'm an Amiga fan because I fell in love with the machine, the software, the vision, and whole bunch of intangible fluff back when I was not even a teenager and since that day I was drooling to have an Amiga. Didn't happen... for a while. Had to buy an Amstard, no, not the one with the floppy, but with the tape drive! (464), and satiate my boyhood dream of having a computer of my own. And it was literally my own. I put up most of the money. Anyhow, then on to PCs. Yuck, I know. DOS, Windoze. Finally was able to get an Amiga, and as for the PC hell, I was finally saved by Linux. Never looked back and now I'm happy with my Macs, Linuxized PCs, and of course with my ample collection of lovely, yet dying, Amigas.
Anyways, nostalgia aside, my point is: I don't get involved with rumors and the community often, as I lurk and muck with stuff on my own, but yet I see a very depressing state of affairs. The Amiga community being fooled left and right, with vacant hopes and dreams and a whole bunch of {bleep} frankly. And another thing that's rather disturbing is that a big part of the community is average users even when it comes to the Amiga, basically not real technoids. Scary. For example, a lot of the people here are not technical in any sense, more so programmers. When did move.l #4,a6 last make sense to you? Perhaps I'm biased from knowing people from the demoscene. Forgive me, it just scares me. What I'm trying to say is: the ones that keep the Amiga alive are those out there that are making or patching/preserving software.
So look around you, and listen to what Mr. Bill and a whole slew of others say, but in the end, look also at WHO HAS GOT SOMETHING RUNNING? I only see AmigaOS 4 from Hyperion, in beta of course. But it's out there. Secondly, look at the track record of these guys (this includes you allhail). I cannot believe I hear people talking badly about them, and granted, I don't know them or anyone from their crew, but as a developer I really don't see them spending tons of time and money, and then trying to sabotage their own products. But back to the point, look at their track record! Who's made PC games such as Quake and others a fscking REALITY on the Amiga? Did Mr. Bill? Or God forbid, C= itself? No. These guys did, so you all could frag each other. What? When was the last time you saw this page:
http://www.hyperion-entertainment.biz:8080/amiga/frameset_html?func=projects Who's been keeping your precious PPC Amiga busy with code? These guys. These things to me, and should to you too, speak LARGE WORDS: commitment, dedication, results, deliverables.
There's one more issue I'd like to approach from the technical side again. Some person (I really want to name him dolt, idiot, twit, etc, but let's not), said something about Hyperion having problems or refusing to port AmigaOS 4 to a non-PPC platform. I don't know if they've publicly said something to this end, but once again reason says: these guys have ported MUCH non-PPC software (ex: Quake) to the AmigaPPC. What makes you think they'll have a hard time doing the opposite? Sure, it won't be easy, but being a developer I can say that developers of their caliber will not really sweat too much over it. Also, since we're in the year 2006 it'd be a safe enough assumption to make that most of the code for AmigaOS 4 is not pure assembly, therefore portability is very easy, baring the last 5-10% of platform specific implementation (dealing with locks/semaphores, interrupts and hardware stuff like throwing the CPU in/out of supervisor mode, etc). So, once again, is it really Hyperion that's having a problem/reason for not porting AmigaOS 4 if they were so asked? I highly doubt it. These guys have more than proved their meddle, IMVHO (in my VERY honest opinion).
But just to be impartial, and since I don't know the Hyperion crew, I'm not saying there's no better team to write AmigaOS 4. Perhaps there is, perhaps as suggested by someone the MorphOS guys could do a better job. I don't know. What I certainly can say though is that I've seen NOTHING from Amiga Inc that would even tempt me to assume they could. Not a thing. Of course this void maybe be reflective in their choosing Hyperion... but that's highly illogical and improbable.
But just so I don't sound one sided, I'll give some other thoughts, based on actually reading and trying to understand the answers. When Mr. Bill talks about companies making 500,000$, I don't think he's necessarily referring to companies selling Amiga-only gear. Perhaps he is, but I think what he might have meant is that the company has got to be making (net?) profits of at least that much, on ANY gear/items/goods, to be able to make the contract with Amiga Inc. I understand it, if that's so, but frankly, as some other readers have noted, who the heck does he think he or his company is? All it ends up doing in the end is prolonging the suffering death of our beloved Amigas and our community.
Related to this, I have to say that I met Mr. Jens Schoenfeld (sorry for the spelling if it's wrong) and his partner Oliver at AmiWest this year (PS. More of you loud mouths should come next time, just so we can make more noise). It was a great opportunity, because I'd never met such hardcore and true Amiga engineers and fans before. All I can say is that this guy keeps our gear and machines running, and also moving forwards. Of course with Mr. Bills attitude he'd have no chance to help en-masse the entire Amigadom. But such are the sad affairs of the Amiga. These are the heroes that keep the Amiga spirit (and body, aka chips) alive, and yet very few thank or even help these guys. Even the pungent smell of the rotting corpse of the once great Amiga community around you cannot wake up some of you poor souls, so that you to realize that we're SOL: $hit out of luck. We're on our own. There's no messiah in the form of a big (Amiga/Commodore) company to help us out. We have to help ourselves out, and we can very well start by supporting fellows like Jens and others making REAL, TANGIBLE effort and products. One more great guy I met there: Matthew of AmigaKit. I met the guy, what a fantastic chap, as you Brits would say. True Amigan. Thanks to all these guys for coming all the way to this side of the world. And a local: Carl Sassenrath. This guy is THE MAN. Certified, guaranteed, registered, whatever have you! Period. And many if not all of us guys left our girlfriends and wives (you know... family...) at home and spent the night there. Finally and just in case you didn't know, or hear, Mr. Bill never showed up. You know... Family... issues...
One more thought I had, and I know the words "conspiracy theory" have been brainwashed into everyone's head as an inseparable couple, but really, not every conspiracy IS a theory. Just because you and I don't know it's true or false, doesn't make it theoretical. Anyhow, from reading all this mumbo-jumbo, it seems very certain that Amiga Inc tried changing "identities" because it had legal troubles. Either with former Amiga Inc members (Bolten Peck) or even with current "partners" (Hyperion). Anyhow, so here's a thought that popped into my mind, especially after reading amigadave's diacritical view on the affairs: Amiga Inc might be purposely making the "finding PPC hardware" situation hard, because after having clashed heads with Hyperion, figures out: this is how I will force Hyperion into submission: make it so that no hardware will exist for their product, thus no sales possible for Hyperion. Now think about it. If Hyperion did all the work, why wouldn't they want to release it? What is their reason, their rationale? Of course getting (more?) money from Amiga Inc is one reason to keep it back, but from the looks of things, they're never going to get any of that money. At least that's how I would be seeing it, if I was them. So perhaps they're thinking of releasing it and making that money back on their own. On the other hand Amiga Inc never created the OS, so they aren't feeling the "pain of stunting their newborn", but are unhappy (I don't know the exact reasons for this, Mr. Bill never mentioned them), and so they might have to decided that if they can't take it from Hyperion, at least they won't let them have any piece of the cake! Sounds very plausible.
Thanks for reading. May I end with a wish, that all that I thought and assumed are totally wrong, and that there's a new future for the Amiga out there.
Creds/respect:
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Thanks for your efforts Wayne. Sad to see the desperation for hope, but it's not like I'm not hoping either... We all are, that's the problem many times. We're just hoping, not helping.
Pierre: In general the comments rhyme with me, but please learn how to spell or use a Mac
It hurts when reading! Also, I can sympathize with your aggravation when you're trying to explain to people (like Legerdemain, what a head-case...) that Amiga Inc's LACK OF DOING (or hindering) has not helped but further weakened the Amiga community by offering false hope, at which point many members just "move along", or basically give up. He and others don't see the connection, but I'm certain deep down inside they feel the Amigadom shrinking like a shriveling organ of an old person (perhaps their brain?). I also like to say the "after some thought" list was well constructed. Loved the part about "When was the last to time you fired up a classic amiga just to check it out? watched a demo or ran a game?". Too bad we won't be getting any answers for those questions. Interesting thoughts on AmigaOS going open source... Perhaps someone on the inside would care to leak it on our behalf? Love the "HUGE NEWS!" post as well.
Argus: Love the "If I ever think in the future my toaster or coffee maker needs 'digital convergence', then I guess we could talk about your AmigaAnywhere/OS5 (dumb name though imho)" comment!!!!! (among others)
Plaz: agreed with you: Mr. Bill show us the screenshots, or anything! Give us a real bone... As for pulling the plug, if you don't have a Plan B, you don't pull the plug after investing time and money, and even so, AmigaOS 4 is still there, real, tangible, even if not fully completed. Makes no sense logistically or from a business perspective. Now, from a "I've got a bone to pick with you" perspective, then I can see pulling the plug as an alternate option...
Jahc: Make it easy on yourself: Mac OS X and Linux. They're the closest to the Amiga that I've found.
Dammy: Ram it in (to them)!
narcea: "same old regurgitated junk" - same feeling here, as well as your other paragraphs.
weirdami: "It's a little unusual that there had been no leaks or even rumors of OS5 being worked on at all. They must be a dedicated crew that keeps at it instead of going" - Dedicated crew? My dear fellow human being, isn't it obvious? Do you prefer a sledgehammer for beating it into you? I'm sorry to snap you out of the dream, but there is no OS5, that's why there aren't rumors about it. Look at Apple. One of the most tight-lipped companies, ever, about their products. I have many friends that work at Apple, and honestly guys, they don't tell me jack! But yet rumors can always be found on the net, and most of them are spot on. You know why? Because the products EXIST. When you have to send off a certain product so that it will be photographed or whatever, because they're preparing the printing material and what not, that's how the rumor mongers find out about these things... With AmigaOS 5, well, there won't be any rumors as it's vaporware. I'd even go as far as saying that it's inside someone's demented head... As for Petro selling off $75k of inventory... I really like how the response was: "when I learned that...". How do you MISS something like that? Incompetence is not even close to the right word here.
gary_c: There's not reason at all. I was hoping as well nobody's hopes went up, but it seems apparent that many had...
Desler: Great points, well said. We should buy their (Amiga Inc) corpse out and get this mess over with.
Turrican: I agree with your list, except 3). Amiga Inc is moving forward into lunacy, not having anything to do with Amigas or AmigaOS, not in any real, tangible sense at least. PS. awesome game patrioti
cpfuture: Definitely not in our reality
Trezzer: Fully pardoned
fjudde: Interesting point. So Mr. Bill was forced more or less to answer the questions, else refusing to deal with someone from amiga.org would have been PR-suicide, of sorts.
Srbin: He gives a fsck about old ROMS because he's not yet done milking the cow (the Amiga community, me, you, yeah you the reader!)
Wayne: I mentioned the same issue to some of the people at AmiWest: let's have it for 2 days. And one more thought of mine was: to shake off this "dead feeling" that Amigans seem to have, why not invite Atari (ha!), C64/128 and pre, old Apple, TRS80, Spectrum, BBC, etc communities, so as to have a larger "fair" type event for the first day, or the first hours of each day, and then focus more the actual "meat" of the event on Amiga, since we, the Amigans, would be the instigators and organizers. I'm trying to say that if it was a fair like the ones I used to go back in the east coast, where there would be hundreds to thousands of people, it'd be more lively and perhaps we'd have even greater Amiga attendance (and of course try to get the rest Amigy-fied, muhahaha!). As for "Bill is aiming higher than this tiny hobbyist market", what would you call me if I told you that I aim to have a rocketship built in my back yard that can reach Alpha-Centauri (you know, the star system), powered only by my garbage? Perhaps "delusional" would be the first word that'd come to your mind. Or maybe "mad" would be the first? Also as to the "he was a marketeer before this" comment, I think he's shown very well that he still is to this day
Finally about the "lawyer" stuff, let's be honest: if the guy was honest, he'd ignore his lawyers and he'd speak straight forth. Not the case.
Tomas: He (Mr. Bill) can expect these things if he's delusional. Wait, someone already pointed this out. From your second post: No one would. You're right. What made you change your tune further down? We're open minded, but we won't also bend over backwards and wait for the humping to begin. No thanks!
redrumloa: Well said. Too bad I wasn't aware of Anachronism Industries at the time
uncleted: Agreed. Allow licensing, and stimulate growth in the already dwindling Amiga world. But alas, no! Lawyers and their cronies want to make more cash...
snowman040: So it seems... How else can these guys make money? They obviously don't have any Amiga product, or had one for the past 7+ years now...
amije: I think he's an alien... oh wait, extreme capitalist, that's what their planet is called...
Fats: VERY interesting comment about Amiga Inc shooting themselves on the foot as they switched identities to get rid of (annoying or deserving pay promised) employees, and thus opening the door to Hyperion taking back their own work, for righteous or selfish reasons, I don't know. Excellent insight Fats. I truly wonder what's true...
amigarules2k: Right on brother! Yeah, I love how all these claims about working with the community and building things together, but then there's never any "showing the community what's going on behind the scenes". If that doesn't smell fishy, then I don't know what does... I'll give you my paycheck too, if he proves something is true about this OS5 and other mumbo-jumbo.
Jose: These are not even wishes. People, nerds, want to give them money for a product. We've not even gotten to what we WISH for in that product, because if you ask me, what I want (something beyond OS X), they can't even FANTASIZE in their full-of-bs marketing brains, that's how far ahead or wishful my nerdy thinking is.
JKD: Hahaha, I love it! "low flying time wrap"
recidivist: Indeed it's fux0red. I recently had to deal with such things, and it's unbelievable the amount of evil that's contained within.
Argo: ...and then vote thinking that your decision has any meaning, is that right Argo? Does "Argo" come from "argos" ? (the accent on the o)
platon42: No, haven't seen it, but surely it fits here squarely
Insanity: Yes, everyone should ponder that. Please also ponder that it's 2006 and the last Amiga or AmigaOS that came out was in the last millenium.
ne_one: Just like it's "too easy to be a naysayer", it's also much easier to be a gullible naive neophyte.
-D-: Exactly: LOL.
Tron2k2: "marketroid drivel", hahahha. It sounds like fraud, although I'm no expert. But certainly not normal. Unbelievable, if what you said is true, about shutting down Amiga.org's t-shirt thing at Cafepress. If it wasn't (mostly) for Amiga.org I and many others wouldn't be hanging around the Amiga world anymore...
