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AuthorTopic: What will drive the New Amiga?  (Read 14152 times)

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Offline danbeaver

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Re: What will drive the New Amiga?
« Reply #120 on: December 07, 2014, 01:54:10 AM »
Quote from: Linde;779161
I'm sorry to have assumed that you would remember the context in which I wrote this. My point is that if there is a niche where Amiga could be established with the general populace, it has nothing to do with simplicity. The Chromebook is indeed simpler and more attractive in the senses that have any relevance to the average consumer.

Did you really say that?  There is no definition of context; you stated that the Mac OS is simpler for "average Joes" to use (so is a pencil and paper) than an Amiga;  and in some sort of  "a deeper sense than to get things done doesn't factor in."  The meaning behind this eludes me.

You mention nothing of a "niche where Amiga could be established with the general populace" in either post (what is this niche, since it also remains undefined in your post?); then you state that the Chromebook is "more attractive in the senses that have any relevance to the average consumer."  Again you describe multiple "senses" without saying what they are, and there is no comment on what you feel is of "relevance to the average consumer."
 

Offline Linde

Re: What will drive the New Amiga?
« Reply #121 on: December 07, 2014, 09:06:16 AM »
Quote from: danbeaver;779166
Did you really say that?  There is no definition of context; you stated that the Mac OS is simpler for "average Joes" to use (so is a pencil and paper) than an Amiga;  and in some sort of  "a deeper sense than to get things done doesn't factor in."  The meaning behind this eludes me.

This is what you wrote, WRT Unix
Quote
Amiga's OS takes it place for just flat out being simpler to understand and use.


Your argument was about simplicity. Not that you mention what about Amiga OS is so simple. Getting it? Installing it? Using it? Doing anything useful with it? Seems like Chromebook has a clear advantage in each of these areas.

Quote from: danbeaver;779166
You mention nothing of a "niche where Amiga could be established with the general populace" in either post (what is this niche, since it also remains undefined in your post?);


No, that was defined by you, saying that Amiga could take the place of Unix in typical home settings.

Quote from: danbeaver;779166
then you state that the Chromebook is "more attractive in the senses that have any relevance to the average consumer."  Again you describe multiple "senses" without saying what they are, and there is no comment on what you feel is of "relevance to the average consumer."


I described those in the post before;
Quote
People rather think in practical terms like "how do I get it on the network", "how do I browse facebook", "where do I find applications", "where do I get support" or "how do I write a rich text document" than things like "how does this work from top to bottom".


Somehow in all of this you have completely failed to address my arguments, and I am not cynical enough to think that someone wouldn't have beeen able to put the context together the way I have above, so what's your point?
 

Offline ElPolloDiabl

Re: What will drive the New Amiga?
« Reply #122 on: December 07, 2014, 12:11:45 PM »
Sorry to interrupt.
Is it the (some) Os4/NG users pushing for a comeback, if not who then?
All software development will go to the top 2 OS. Linux users code like crazy to keep up. They don't get a free ride.

A hypothetical niche is Amiga games console.
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guest11527

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Re: What will drive the New Amiga?
« Reply #123 on: December 07, 2014, 01:28:15 PM »
Quote from: Yasu;779134
Do we really want or need people who just want to surf the web?

Chrome books are more than "just surving the web". It's the relocation of applications into the web. The chrome book is just a stupid simple end user device that is just capable enough to do everything required to run a dynamic web application. Or rather, that such applications live in the web is completely irrelevant for the average customer. It rather allows to off-load computing power from mobile devices into servers (and it allows providers to micro-charge for applications rather them selling them as software packages). It is a completely different business strategy, and a pretty smart one (for the vendors, not necessarily for the users).
 

Offline ElPolloDiabl

Re: What will drive the New Amiga?
« Reply #124 on: December 07, 2014, 01:38:43 PM »
Quote
it allows providers to micro-charge for applications rather them selling them as software packages

Thats why +1
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Offline danbeaver

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Re: What will drive the New Amiga?
« Reply #125 on: December 07, 2014, 08:37:50 PM »
Linde

Arguments of an elusory nature with serpentine references to prior posts are a poor way to debate an issue; I state that the Amiga OS4 is simpler to use and can only conclude that you feel the Mac OSX is simpler.
 

Offline Duce

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Re: What will drive the New Amiga?
« Reply #126 on: December 07, 2014, 11:59:52 PM »
IMHO, half the problem with the scene is the fact people are more inclined to believe that some miraculous new piece of Amiga gear or software will pop out of the woodwork and suddenly Microsoft and Apple will be on the verge of bankruptcy.

Should be more thankful we have such a healthy and varied selection of offerings for a platform that technically hasn't been made since the 90's in its original incarnation.  A lot of the other niche platforms aren't so lucky, and the Amiga was never an 80% market share platform even at the pinnacle of its success, which was in the mid 90's.

The fact that we're even into the 4 digit numbers sales wise on the NG systems is still a bit astounding to me in this modern age of people viewing computers as not so much a hobby, but as appliances or a utility device.
 

Offline Linde

Re: What will drive the New Amiga?
« Reply #127 on: December 08, 2014, 08:13:38 AM »
Quote from: danbeaver;779227
Linde

Arguments of an elusory nature with serpentine references to prior posts are a poor way to debate an issue;
Non-arguments like the above are an even poorer way to debate an issue. [removed insult]

Quote from: danbeaver;779227
I state that the Amiga OS4 is simpler to use and can only conclude that you feel the Mac OSX is simpler.
I also state why I think so. You never explain how Amiga OS is simpler, giving me the upper hand when it comes to actually having an argument, whether you agree or not. I also don't pose my arguments as fact, or say anything that is inherently undebatable, giving you a perfect opportunity to actually respond to them.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 05:57:10 PM by Linde »
 

Offline danbeaver

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Re: What will drive the New Amiga?
« Reply #128 on: December 09, 2014, 08:10:23 AM »
Quote from: Linde;779254
Non-arguments like the above are an even poorer way to debate an issue.  [Insult Removed By Linde]


I also state why I think so. You never explain how Amiga OS is simpler, giving me the upper hand when it comes to actually having an argument, whether you agree or not. I also don't pose my arguments as fact, or say anything that is inherently undebatable, giving you a perfect opportunity to actually respond to them.
I do not respond to personal attacks.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 10:10:34 PM by kjmann »
 

Offline ElPolloDiabl

Re: What will drive the New Amiga?
« Reply #129 on: December 09, 2014, 08:48:11 AM »
So this one started with some generalisations.
Lock thread soon pls, it didn't go anywhere.

Or better, move all posts starting with #91 (2014) to different thread.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 08:51:16 AM by ElPolloDiabl »
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Offline Linde

Re: What will drive the New Amiga?
« Reply #130 on: December 09, 2014, 06:14:20 PM »
Quote from: danbeaver;779360
I do not respond to personal attacks.



This Post has been deleted.

Reason: Personal Attacks, Insults or rude behavior.

Infraction Issued.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 10:05:16 PM by kjmann »
 

Offline psxphill

Re: What will drive the New Amiga?
« Reply #131 on: December 09, 2014, 10:20:29 PM »
Quote from: danbeaver;779227
I state that the Amiga OS4 is simpler to use and can only conclude that you feel the Mac OSX is simpler.

Can you state objectively why it's simpler?
 

Offline danbeaver

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Re: What will drive the New Amiga?
« Reply #132 on: December 10, 2014, 12:16:48 AM »
Quote from: Linde;779414
To  be perfectly honest, I don't [Personal insult removed] You are most likely perfectly capable of  following our discussion, but instead of doing so you say that my  arguments are elusory and that my references are "serpentine". Even  after I've clarified my serpentine references you refuse to directly  address what I'm saying, and instead dismiss it based on a conclusion  that only seems to take my disagreement with you into account.        
                                                                                                                   

Again, I do not respond to personal attacks
« Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 10:59:01 PM by danbeaver »
 

Offline agami

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Re: What will drive the New Amiga?
« Reply #133 on: December 10, 2014, 12:53:58 AM »
Quote from: Duce;779246

...

Should be more thankful we have such a healthy and varied selection of offerings for a platform that technically hasn't been made since the 90's in its original incarnation.  A lot of the other niche platforms aren't so lucky, and the Amiga was never an 80% market share platform even at the pinnacle of its success, which was in the mid 90's.

The fact that we're even into the 4 digit numbers sales wise on the NG systems is still a bit astounding to me in this modern age of people viewing computers as not so much a hobby, but as appliances or a utility device.


That's looser talk. Defeatist attitudes like "be happy with what you got" are anti-progress. Shouldn't we just all be happy with the amount of rocks that can be shaped into a blade?

Healthy? 4-digit sales, as you put it, over a decade or so of Amiga NG systems is not something anyone would consider healthy. Just because there are hobby platforms in a worse position does not make ours healthy. And lets be honest, we are talking low 4-digits, though even if it were in the 9000 range it would still not be enough.

You are correct in one thing; Amiga never held a high percentage of the home computer market, and even less so in business. But they did have an install base of over 1M, and that made for a healthy ecosystem. That's what we should be aiming for, a healthy ecosystem. You know, an ecosystem where an update to a beta of a library isn't seen as major news.
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Offline agami

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Re: What will drive the New Amiga?
« Reply #134 on: December 10, 2014, 12:55:32 AM »
Quote from: ElPolloDiabl;779363
So this one started with some generalisations.
Lock thread soon pls, it didn't go anywhere.

Or better, move all posts starting with #91 (2014) to different thread.


There is only one post that starts with #91 :p
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