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Author Topic: (Im)Patient Amigas  (Read 3424 times)

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Offline SystemTopic starter

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Re: (Im)Patient Amigas
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2002, 10:39:26 PM »
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In the meantime the Pegasos will be able to use G4 processors which use the same bus as the G3.


Yay for the Pegasos! But I am not keen on an OS (MorphOS) that is only Amiga compatable (that is how I understand MOS), at least OS4 will be an AmigaOS based on the same things that OS3.x are based on (again how I read it).

Don't get me wrong, I wish the Peg and MOS all the best, but I will be sticking with Workbench(AmigaOS).

I hope that they are able to find some G4s tho, as I belive Apple currently absorbe most, if not all, of them. At least if they guys behind the Peg can find some G4s then Eyetech might be able to! Then (hopefully!) we can move onto the A1-XE and use the darn things!  :crazy: :lol:
 

Offline Hammer

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Re: (Im)Patient Amigas
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2002, 01:24:30 AM »
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You forget TWO facts:
Many, many, many, many, many, many, Amiga-Users for many, many, many, many, many years have used 68000 or 68020 powered machines!:

Motorola has failed provide a cheap (compared to X86) upgrade path for 68k during the early 1990s, thus Amiga users are stuck on 020/030 CPUs.  

Why didn’t Moto offer a 66/75/80 Mhz 030 (with built in FPU) part? (Completing with 486DX2/DX4/ price bracket).

Due to Moto incompetence, most of 68k based PCs are gone from mainstream view. (Moto’s 68k empire is basically gone from the general PC market.)

Moto did not keep up with Intel/AMD in terms of price and performance at a given time period.  

The CPU vendor is pretty much the central node for the success of the particular PC platforms.

X86 empire has a double insurance of at least two aggressive CPU vendors (mostly due to IBM’s decisions in forcing Intel to give early X86 designs to AMD within the original X86 PCAT contacts).

It’s sad to see that PPC Alliance basically reduced to one aggressive CPU vendor (e.g. IBM).
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Offline tonyw

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Re: (Im)Patient Amigas
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2002, 01:29:54 AM »
I think Ketzer descibes the Amiga best - it's a hobby, nothing more. There may be a few diehards who actually use it for simple work, but it doesn't have access to any of the professional software available for the Big Platforms.

It makes little difference whether it has a G3, G4 or $(@X99. If it can't run the software that people run on their big PCs and Macs, it'll always be a toy.

I can't wait to be able to buy my new toy. I'll have a G3/SE for starters, thanks, then a G4/XE for main course, and I'll have a look at the dessert menu later.

tony
 

Offline Hammer

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Re: (Im)Patient Amigas
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2002, 01:43:37 AM »
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I think Ketzer descibes the Amiga best - it's a hobby, nothing more. There may be a few diehards who actually use it for simple work, but it doesn't have access to any of the professional software available for the Big Platforms.

Word Perfect was available for AmigaOS btw…
The claim for the first color DTP desktop SW packages. Amiga did have some professional software (i.e mostly DTV industries) .

CBM wasn’t serous about Amiga during the 80s i.e. Commodore 64/128 and it's  variants was a waste of R&D/marketing  resources.
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Offline gary_c

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Re: (Im)Patient Amigas
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2002, 02:34:52 AM »
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I think Ketzer descibes the Amiga best - it's a hobby, nothing more.

This is something that Amiga, Inc. reinforces by only describing the AmigaOS platform in relation to existing users. Is there anything from Amiga, Inc. that shows some sign of wanting to grow the AmigaOS platform beyond existing users? Or any OS features or applications that would win new users? Clearly, Amiga, Inc. is looking at the native Amiga platform more as a short-term source of license income than as a long-term project to be comparable in some way with the "Big Platforms". For that job, AmigaAnywhere is the solution; it seems to me Amiga as a proprietary platform is almost dead before it starts, due to the priorities of the company. So as long as buyers go in with their eyes open, it'll be OK, but they shouldn't expect too much IMHO. This is sad, but it's the way Amiga is doing it.

-- gary_c
 

Offline yssing

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Re: (Im)Patient Amigas
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2002, 05:52:09 AM »
Amiga Inc is failing.
As I see it, they don't really support the desktop market, this is IMHO where they should focus theire work, not with PDA and cell phones.
Any way I really don't think that amigaDE/anywhere or what ever will ever succeed.
To little to late.
Focus on the desktop and get more user to the platform. At least Thendic is trying to do this.
IMO Amiga Inc has abbandoned the amiga for something, though called amiga, has nothing to do with amiga.
 

Offline Argo

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Re: (Im)Patient Amigas
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2002, 08:33:11 AM »
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Any way not to annoy any one, but MOS 1.0 beta should be out now.
Maybe that is the way to go, if amiga don't finish AOS soon.


Na, then it's time to hang up your hat and go home.
 

Offline Coder

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Re: (Im)Patient Amigas
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2002, 11:40:39 AM »
Is it not time for a new Executive Update from Bill? In the last one he said on a few topics that there was going to be new info about it soon. But it has been more then a month now.

Coder
Check it out - I found the ass-end!
 

Offline strobe

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Re: (Im)Patient Amigas
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2002, 11:20:15 PM »
Both AmigaOS4 and MorphOS claim to be "Amiga compatible" or more specifically have backwards compatibility for running Amiga 3.x software.

The question really is, which OS will be MORE compatible.

We have no idea how compatible AmigaOS 4 will be since the only thing shown t the public is Amiga OS 3.x with some 4.x elements. I expect the compatibility to be good since they will simply use the same 3.x libraries. However these libraries will still be 68k and will run under emulation. I would be shocked (but pleasantly so) if they released a fully native AmigaOS 4.

MorphOS wrote all their 3.x compatible libraries as PowerPC native from the very beginning so I would expect it to run old software much faster.

As for the interface both OSs will have interfaces which are different than AmigaOS 3.x. Until we sit down and compare 3.x, 4.x, and MOS I don't see how anybody can pass judgement.

The only thing I know is AOS4 isn't going to be running on new hardware any time soon. I would expect no earlier than 2004 at this rate. MOS, to Amiga Inc.'s shame, is far farther along despite the fact they had to write a lot of the OS from scratch instead of rewriting an old OS.
 

Offline Elektro

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Re: (Im)Patient Amigas
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2002, 12:35:34 AM »
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The only thing I know is AOS4 isn't going to be running on new hardware any time soon.


How do you know that?
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Offline strobe

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Re: (Im)Patient Amigas
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2002, 01:07:47 AM »
Several reasons:

1) They don't even have an OS to port.

All they have is some AOS4.x technologies running on 3.x on a A4000. They beagged not long ago that exec was native.

2) Even if they did, it would take a long time

Even assuming there is a new kernel running on the A4000 which is ready to be ported, this process isn't easy! The architectures are completely different and would require a hell of a lot of debugging just to get the shell up and running. Nobody at Amiga Inc. or anybody else has claimed to find the silver bullet to bypass this process. Consider that the host processor has a different interrupt protocol to begin with and a different ABI and a different north bridge and a different memory protocol and a different firmware logic and a different set of chips for the south bridge and a different friggin EVERYTHING!

It took a long time for the Quark kernel to be ported as well. BPlan is just ahead of the game, that's all. No short-cuts were taken.

I leave it to the Amiga partnership to show me the money. Demonstrate SOMETHING running on the AmigaOne other than Linux. Demonstrate a new AmigaOS running on a A4000 with new features like mmeory protection.

I mean something, ANYTHING!
 

Offline Elektro

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Re: (Im)Patient Amigas
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2002, 01:52:35 AM »
Well then you don't know rather you presume...
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Offline strobe

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Re: (Im)Patient Amigas
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2002, 06:19:19 AM »
Well why don't we try to use some logic then.

If you had AmigaOS 4 in working order on a A4000 why would you instead demonstrate an extremely buggy Amiga 3.x with some AOS4 elements?

Which is it, is the Amiga partnership insane or behind?

We KNOW that AOS4 isn't even stable to demonstrate on the A4000. We KNOW that whatever they have can't be any better than the really buggy 3/4 hybrid they demonstrated. We KNOW that they recently bragged about finishing exec.

How can the above be true and AOS4 for AmigaOne be just around the corner? HA! 2004 if you're lucky.
 

Offline vortexau

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Re: (Im)Patient Amigas
« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2002, 12:42:28 PM »
hnl_dk said:
Quote

I could only find an 600MHz G3: http://store.apple.com
or http://www.computerstore.dk


From the "Products" page at
next byte, Australia's Macintosh Specialists (just below the "ALL NEW eMAC - NOW FOR RETAIL" Section) :

"Choose your iMac - 500MHz, 600MHz and 700MHz G3"
"Special $1849.00
500MHz PowerPC G3
64MB SDRAM
20GB Ultra ATA drive
CD-ROM drive
RAGE 128 Pro w/ 8MB
10/100BASE-T Ethernet
56K internal modem
15-inch display
Two USB ports
Two FireWire ports"
-vortexau; who\\\'s still waiting! (-for AmigaOS4! ;-) )
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Offline blubbe

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Re: (Im)Patient Amigas
« Reply #28 from previous page: October 18, 2002, 05:45:57 PM »
Quote

We KNOW that AOS4 isn't even stable to demonstrate on the A4000. We KNOW that whatever they have can't be any better than the really buggy 3/4 hybrid they demonstrated. We KNOW that they recently bragged about finishing exec.

How can the above be true and AOS4 for AmigaOne be just around the corner? HA! 2004 if you're lucky.


I belive they are ready with exec if they say so.
 If you paid any attention you would know that whats delaying things is the 68k-emulation. Its not intergated yet, and .. that could be a huge task.
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