Reaction vs MUI (as what concerns the API)

[jacadcaps]

I prefer C++ to Obj-C.  Cocoa provides a very nice set of classes but Obj-C is from the devil.

You puked at Cocoa, not Obj-C.

Then again, Obj-C's method invocation is actually pretty close to BOOPSI - just replace [] with DoMethod and use : to separate arguments rather than , That makes it easy to switch to Obj-C/Cocoa when you're a MUI programmer. At least it took me far less time to learn Obj-C & Cocoa than to learn C++ with its imho obscure GUI toolkits like Qt or MFC.

I type this from my 17" Macbook Pro 4,1 (and looking over my shoulder at the 3 Cocoa and 2 Obj-C books on my shelves.)
It's easy to bash someone you know nothing about.

Wrong:
http://dreamolers.binaryriot.org/fuhquake/
http://iconsole.pl

[bloodline]

I prefer C++ to Obj-C.  Cocoa provides a very nice set of classes but Obj-C is from the devil.

For me it's all about the right tool for the job... When doing low-level microcontroller work, I want C++... When doing high-level application development I love Obj-C, though I admit that over 60% of Obj-C's appeal comes from the maturity and elegance of Cocoa (really OpenStep).

Due to the rigid enforcement of design patterns in Cocoa and Obj-C programs can still be understood if the code has been ignored for nearly a year!
C++ offers too much freedom, I look back on a project written in C++ and spend a good deal oftime trying to figure out what I did and why, the comments only help so far :-/ (this is my limitation not C++).

The Amiga misses a tool as powerful as Interface Builder, also I don't know if any of the Amiga toolkits have a common inheritance from a single UIview class like cocoa does... That is a very important design advantage!

I type this from my 17" Macbook Pro 4,1 (and looking over my shoulder at the 3 Cocoa and 2 Obj-C books on my shelves.)

I really need to get a Cocoa book, I rely too much on learning from examples, often I'll not realise there is already a class/protocol/method that does what I want

[itix]

Yes, isn't that what you want?

Users still have to run their existing software so no, it isn't. However the goal is that users don't have to depend on 3d party classes but everything you need is in the OS.

In this context, that saying makes no sense - MUI and MorphOS too are very much in the slow lane.

It is still better than Reaction which hasnt got any progress since Hack & Patch OS 3.5.

[itix]

... when browsing the web, perhaps.

You make it sound as if web browsing is the only task you'd use the computer for, but then... why on earth bother with an amiga system in the first place?

Hmm... actually you are right there, (apart from coding for fun) I dont see any other use for computers than web browsing. And of course gaming.

And you do know that you can run Miami without _any_ GUI engine?

Not Miami 1.x I had in 1995 or so. Miami 3.x or Miami Deluxe offered chance to run without GUI but I don't think I ever used that version. But why bother when you had 16 MB fast ram which was more than you ever would need on Amiga? :-) In 90s you could run MacOS on Shapeshifter at the same time while browsing the web.

And why really bother when 90% of quality software for Amiga used MUI. Not just good old IBrowse 1.22 I was using but AmIRC, AmFTP and AmTelnet to mention few classics from the 90s.

But maybe you should point out what you can do with Amigas. I even have got an Amiga you can use for demonstration. My Amiga 500 has got only Kickstart 1.3 on it but I can upgrade Kickstart to version 3.1. CPU or memory upgrade is not obviously needed because ClassAct is so efficient (there is 512kB memory expansion already). I guess I should download ClassAct 2.2 from Aminet first. I don't have a hard disk but I know how to split OS into several disks so it is not really issue here. Now, where is that cool application I can run on my Amiga?

[lsmart]

Let me guess: your GadTools applications have one big eventloop where you control all possible events using switch/case construct?

No, the event loop just gathers enough information to continue. The rest is done elsewhere. But you are obviously thinking that I have written Amiga software after 1995. But I did most of my Amiga development before that. And much of it wasn´t in C.

And let me guess more: you copy/paste your GUI engine from your previous projects because you can not get arsed to write all that code again and again?

I never copy/paste code in bigger chunks. I tend write software modules for re-use.

You probably dont support snapshotting or iconifying your windows, either. And of course you dont offer localization option because localized strings probably would exceed allocated space and you can't be arsed to TextLength() every UI string when calculating your UI layout. You do calculate your UI layout runtime, don't you?

I do adapt to language and font-size. Iconify wasn´t useful in my software and frankly I don´t know what snappshotting means in an Amiga application context. But I do know that there are a million great Amiga programms that don´t use MUI or Reaction.

[nicholas]

You puked at Cocoa, not Obj-C.

Hence the wink.  Matt knows I like to tease him about his passion for coding for Cocoa in ObjC, you apparently don't.

Then again, Obj-C's method invocation is actually pretty close to BOOPSI - just replace [] with DoMethod and use : to separate arguments rather than , That makes it easy to switch to Obj-C/Cocoa when you're a MUI programmer. At least it took me far less time to learn Obj-C & Cocoa than to learn C++ with its imho obscure GUI toolkits like Qt or MFC.



Wrong:
http://dreamolers.binaryriot.org/fuhquake/
http://iconsole.pl

That has *what* exactly to do with you bashing me despite knowing nothing about me??

[nicholas]

For me it's all about the right tool for the job... When doing low-level microcontroller work, I want C++... When doing high-level application development I love Obj-C, though I admit that over 60% of Obj-C's appeal comes from the maturity and elegance of Cocoa (really OpenStep).

Due to the rigid enforcement of design patterns in Cocoa and Obj-C programs can still be understood if the code has been ignored for nearly a year!
C++ offers too much freedom, I look back on a project written in C++ and spend a good deal oftime trying to figure out what I did and why, the comments only help so far :-/ (this is my limitation not C++).

The Amiga misses a tool as powerful as Interface Builder, also I don't know if any of the Amiga toolkits have a common inheritance from a single UIview class like cocoa does... That is a very important design advantage!



I really need to get a Cocoa book, I rely too much on learning from examples, often I'll not realise there is already a class/protocol/method that does what I want

When doing high level application development I use very expensive proprietary tools. As you say, each job requires a different tool.

For good Cocoa books you could do worse than these http://www.bignerdranch.com/books
Very well written and informative they are.

[kolla]

Now, where is that cool application I can run on my Amiga?

http://aminet.net/package/dev/misc/AWNP_2-54 and you're all set.

[kolla]

frankly I don´t know what snappshotting means in an Amiga application context

Snapshotting the window location and size.

[itix]

No, the event loop just gathers enough information to continue. The rest is done elsewhere. But you are obviously thinking that I have written Amiga software after 1995. But I did most of my Amiga development before that. And much of it wasn´t in C.

Then it changes quite lot.

I do adapt to language and font-size. Iconify wasn´t useful in my software and frankly I don´t know what snappshotting means in an Amiga application context. But I do know that there are a million great Amiga programms that don´t use MUI or Reaction.

Sure there are and I dont want to mockup that old software. Programmers did their best with tools they had available. But this was almost 20 years ago!

[itix]

http://aminet.net/package/dev/misc/AWNP_2-54 and you're all set.

Great, so I can install multifunction pipe on my Amiga 500. What now?

[kolla]

Great, so I can install multifunction pipe on my Amiga 500. What now?

Now you pass data through that pipe, to build GUIs and do whatever you like.

[bloodline]

When doing high level application development I use very expensive proprietary tools. As you say, each job requires a different tool.

For good Cocoa books you could do worse than these http://www.bignerdranch.com/books
Very well written and informative they are.

The very same books recommended to me by my (rather more successful) iPhone developer friend

[itix]

Now you pass data through that pipe, to build GUIs and do whatever you like.

So, it seems ClassAct is not much use at all.

[nicholas]

The very same books recommended to me by my (rather more successful) iPhone developer friend

I have two of them and they are a joy to read, I just feel "uncomfortable" writing ObjC.  To me it similar to blonde hair and white skin on a woman, does nothing for me.

Ain't choice great?

[Crumb]

When doing low-level microcontroller work, I want C++

Assembly is usually better suited for that.