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Offline Im>bE

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Re: The ultimate strategy game
« Reply #29 from previous page: June 05, 2003, 05:38:34 PM »

Then we mostly agree.


IMO playability matters 90%


>Best playability AND graphics.

If one make beatiful gfx,
then one must also see to that
the player wont be confused and mislead by it,
or unwantedly drawn to it.
for example that a background of a game
seems so real that it looks like it is a part of the foreground.
or forexample if the game character looks like he has more weapons, due to that (s)he is so graphically detailed.
or forexample that the gameworld looks so detailed that virtually all players are mislead to places that has no meaning in the game.

there are many problems that could occur from using good/detailed gfx.

but it would be positive for ppl that like art.

all such problems occuring from detailed gfx
can be solved by using simpler gfx.
 The playability will then automatically rise,
unless the playability sucks, and it is more enjoyable to look at all the gfx,
wich I have actually experienced on some games.


but I better (finally) get to the threads topic:

An ultimate strategy game should:

-Be easy to use.
Don't present alot of features to the player at once, but better give them further into the game.
The user will then also enjoy the given features more than if (s)he had got them all at once.

-Have little or no stress factors.
but if required, not for a long time, and big pauses between the stress situations,
as humans will not feel good after longer amounts of stress.

-Start easy, then get harder, possibly also be able to get harder by request from the player.

-Have gfx that is meaningfull to the game
and lets the player know what is going on easily.
if the gametype allows it, then always add humouristic gfx, cause its always pleasant for the player whether its bad or good humour.

-Have sounds that are perfect at telling you if a good or bad thing happened, and wich sounds cool, not lame. And NEVER EVER use sounds that sound annoying.
Like in gfx, humoristic sounds never hurt.
Forexample a high pitched human voice is always funny.

-Have different subgames,
either long term total change in gametype or short small games within the main game.
This because the human brain likes variation
and will tire if the same elements are present over roughly 15 minutes or more time.

-Never make the player wait unneccesary.
unless it is something relaxing,
like a story sequence.

-Have as many options as possible,
but not an option that clearly only has one good choice and everybody always use it.
But if there are too many options,
the user might not want to bother change any of them.
In that case, eliminate the least important options.

-Have many many elements that interfere with eachother. and also add random events.
Don't close the game away from the player, but make it interact as much as possible.
If there is a catapult in the game, then the player will ofcourse want to try it, so make it available to be used.

-support ppl that like to be creative,
in terms of making maps or similar.

-Avoid situations where the player can get stuck or does not know what to do at all.

-Be friendly to the player, not wanting to kill the player in a hostile way.
Also, if possible, have a beginner mode.


Realtime or Turn based, 2D or 3D:

They have little effect on gameplay,
Other than that realtime adds a sense of a an alive world, but increases stress on the player.
Turn based adds time to think, and more control to the player.

2D gives a better overview,
while 3D can be annoying because the monitor is 2D so one cannot move the head to see what is behind an object.


But a final conclution is that different ppl like different games, so an 'ultimate' strategy game will probably never be.
The points above is probably more in my liking than in any others.
Hopelessly addicted to the world\'s best strategy game.
Total Chaos on YouTube
 

Offline Ponos2D

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Re: The ultimate strategy game
« Reply #30 on: June 05, 2003, 07:08:03 PM »

Good old Battle Isle! Good old History Line!

Maybe Battle Isle 2k3 :-D! Improved!!!
 

Offline NickTopic starter

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Re: The ultimate strategy game
« Reply #31 on: June 05, 2003, 08:47:13 PM »
I agree with what your saying about adding stuff which isn`t required, but the other stuff has to be perfect, for its function. No loose ends, if you get what I mean?

This has turned from a request for ideas, to a small depate. Cool :-) Best way to get the best ideas.

Thanks Im>bE. I`ll take that onboard.
 

Offline Im>bE

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Re: The ultimate strategy game
« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2003, 10:32:30 PM »
>I agree with what your saying about adding stuff >which isn`t required, but the other stuff has to >be perfect, for its function. No loose ends, if >you get what I mean?

if you are talking to me, then no.

>Thanks Im>bE. I'll take that onboard.

np, I only wish more game developers would.

I forgot to mention that it is nice when a game
has an unseen type of play, and not just another clone of something dating long back.

btw, if anyone needs help on designing a game with playability, then I would be glad to help.
 im not some distant being in a distant world,
but a lame boring human like the rest, so feel free to email me whenever.

Hopelessly addicted to the world\'s best strategy game.
Total Chaos on YouTube
 

Offline iamaboringperson

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Re: The ultimate strategy game
« Reply #33 on: June 05, 2003, 11:58:53 PM »
so anybody have any really unique ideas for an RTS?
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: The ultimate strategy game
« Reply #34 on: June 06, 2003, 12:04:08 AM »
Quote
just what the amiga needs(especially on aos4.0 and mos) are some more quality new games!!


And AROS...


And yes, I do have a truely original idea for an RTS, one that plays more like Simcity than Starcraft... but more, I shall not say  :-D

Offline LP

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Re: The ultimate strategy game
« Reply #35 on: June 06, 2003, 12:31:15 AM »
I do graphic design too... I've been involved in a 2D-topdown shooter like Alien Breed From Team17, And done all the graphics for it so if I can be at any assistance I would like to help you out or any other that needs graphics done (In reasonble amount of work for one person ofcourse :-))

I agree with the idea of more strategy and less keyboard and mouse action :-)

Hmm... A good strategy game to me has cool but not dominating graphics, it has cool ambient and effect sounds, smart enemies = good AI... A multiplayer internet and LAN game would be great and cdda support if people want to listen to their own music :)

-LP
 

Offline iamaboringperson

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Re: The ultimate strategy game
« Reply #36 on: June 06, 2003, 12:43:14 AM »
Quote

bloodline wrote:
Quote
just what the amiga needs(especially on aos4.0 and mos) are some more quality new games!!


And AROS...


And yes, I do have a truely original idea for an RTS, one that plays more like Simcity than Starcraft... but more, I shall not say  :-D
sounds a bit like one of my ideas ;-)
and i wont say much more either!
 

Offline iamaboringperson

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Re: The ultimate strategy game
« Reply #37 on: June 06, 2003, 12:48:36 AM »
Quote
Hmm... A good strategy game to me has cool but not dominating graphics, it has cool ambient and effect sounds, smart enemies = good AI... A multiplayer internet and LAN game would be great and cdda support if people want to listen to their own music :)
yep, AI is probably most important to me :-)

no game i play ever has good enough AI IMAO
 

Offline LP

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Re: The ultimate strategy game
« Reply #38 on: June 06, 2003, 01:06:05 AM »
Quote
no game i play ever has good enough AI IMAO


true ;-)
 

Offline NickTopic starter

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Re: The ultimate strategy game
« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2003, 06:08:57 PM »
AI is very important in my eyes too. A good example is GT3. Damn good graphics (though not as good as GT:Concept), very good physics (very important in a driving sim), but the AI sucks. I can beat a much more capable car than mine. They make up for lack of AI with a bit of tuning instead. Annoying when you stick to a none tuned race car and they go and cheat, by having more straight line speed. There is more to the AI than just good driving. It would be much better if there was some AI in the setup of the car too. Very complicated, but worth it.

AI should be a major part of games now, but it is lagging behind physics. I like games with the most realistic physics, but AI seems to be strapped onto the game at the last second in many cases. Hopefully in the case of GT, GT4 will fix that. I HOPE! :-)

One annoying thing in some strategy games (and others) is computer player which has abilities which you know are only there to make up for the lack of AI. I like equal opportunities! Yes I know the computer will in a lot of games have abilities you can`t have, cause thats the game, but in the case of Dune II they can build on top of your units. THATS NOT FAIR! :-)
 

Offline r_o_o_s

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Re: The ultimate strategy game
« Reply #40 on: June 06, 2003, 08:38:21 PM »
In reply to:
"Bridge was mentioned as a game with playability.Its playability came from all the various mind and personality elements around the game, and thus has nothing to do with how nice the cards look, or how much makeup the opponent wear, or how much artistic art there is carved into the table...

It would certainly add atmosphere to it,
but the bridge gameplay would not be changed by that."
_______


Bridge is really one of the best strategy games I've ever played. But the really astonishing fact with it is that is playable with only a deck of cards.
The main reason I brought it up was just that, what if one could make an as fantastic acheavment with a computer as the inventor of bridge did with the cards. To do that, nice and purpusfull graphics will definetly be one of the main  objectives, since one of the best traits of the computer compared to the playing card is just that it can produce nice and variable images.
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: The ultimate strategy game
« Reply #41 on: June 06, 2003, 09:26:12 PM »
Quote

iamaboringperson wrote:
Quote

bloodline wrote:
Quote
just what the amiga needs(especially on aos4.0 and mos) are some more quality new games!!


And AROS...


And yes, I do have a truely original idea for an RTS, one that plays more like Simcity than Starcraft... but more, I shall not say  :-D
sounds a bit like one of my ideas ;-)
and i wont say much more either!


Maybe I should say more... Two heads are better than one.. :-)

Offline DavidF215

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Re: The ultimate strategy game
« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2003, 10:32:53 PM »
Some of the old Intellivision games were good strategy games.  :)   I've thought about copying some of the game concepts over to Amiga. I actually made an Astrosmash clone in 1995 with BlitzBasic, but never sent it to Aminet. I'm waiting for AmigaOS4 and the new graphical systems before I start learning Amiga graphic programming.  I think C/C++ is out of date, but I guess that's all there is for OS4 right now. Anyone have an engine for RTS or know of one that's on Aminet?
AmigaOS enthusiast since 1993.
 

Offline iamaboringperson

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Re: The ultimate strategy game
« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2003, 11:32:00 PM »
Quote

DavidF215 wrote:
Some of the old Intellivision games were good strategy games.  :)   I've thought about copying some of the game concepts over to Amiga. I actually made an Astrosmash clone in 1995 with BlitzBasic, but never sent it to Aminet. I'm waiting for AmigaOS4 and the new graphical systems before I start learning Amiga graphic programming.  I think C/C++ is out of date, but I guess that's all there is for OS4 right now. Anyone have an engine for RTS or know of one that's on Aminet?
WHOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
i have to agree that most of the Intellivision games(Inteligent Television!) were some of the best designed and most playable ever!
my favorite Intelivision game? TRON DEADLY  DISC'S!!
whoohoo
and astrosmash is cool too! i still use my intelivision, and i still find it quite fun to play :-) :-)
 

Offline iamaboringperson

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Re: The ultimate strategy game
« Reply #44 on: June 07, 2003, 12:01:05 AM »
Quote

bloodline wrote:
Quote

iamaboringperson wrote:
Quote

bloodline wrote:
Quote
just what the amiga needs(especially on aos4.0 and mos) are some more quality new games!!


And AROS...


And yes, I do have a truely original idea for an RTS, one that plays more like Simcity than Starcraft... but more, I shall not say  :-D
sounds a bit like one of my ideas ;-)
and i wont say much more either!


Maybe I should say more... Two heads are better than one.. :-)

well when i have time, I would like to develop an RTS, but i do have some really unique special ideas
i need to find some graphics(+animation) artists
and sound doods :-)  :-)