How do you port games from PC to Amiga?

[Amiduffer]

Oh yeah! Little Computer People. Never got the little guy to do anything except stare at me.  :lol:

Think thats do-able StarrFoxx?

[Starrfoxx]

Thanks for all the responses!

Well, I'm looking around to see where to start.  Amiga SDL sounds like a good start, so I found this site:

Amiga SDL

And then I found this for OS4:

OS4 SDL


I haven't downloaded the file, because I'm at work, but I can go ahead and take a look at this when I get home.  My real Amiga isn't internet ready, so I'll go ahead and check this out on WinUAE and my laptop.  It'll give me something to read and play around with while on my bus rides to and from work.

BTW, Lemmings is great on my laptop.   :-D   My daughter likes that game.

Would it be better to program using WinUAE or a real Amiga?  I'm guessing if I program with WinUAE, then I'm not addressing the custom chips.  I may need to invest in a A1200.  It would be nice addition to the "family" since my old A500 is rather dead until I can get it fixed.

Programming-wise, I want to keep my "Sims" clone in mind because it's inspirational to me.  I'll keep it simple though, and probably start with something basic like getting a square on the screen, change the color, and get it to move or something.

[alx]

I'm guessing if I program with WinUAE, then I'm not addressing the custom chips. I may need to invest in a A1200.

Nooooooooo!

Leave the custom chips be!  For one thing, SDL abstracts things to a far higher level than the actual hardware, so you wouldn't be able to access the AGA registers directly using it.  More importantly, as soon as you start banging the metal then all semblance of portability disappears - not just to the PC and Mac, but even an expanded A1200 using a graphics card.

The one real benefit of accessing the chips directly is (comparatively) lightning-fast graphics operations, especially for using the special features of the Classic Amiga architecture like the Copper and hardware sprites.  If you wanted to write a demo, then this would be essential.

I'd still invest in the A1200 though 8-)

[SamuraiCrow]

I think the classic Amiga version of SDL requires a graphics card or WinUAE running Picasso96 to run.  Of course SDL programs will compile natively on Windows anyway so why not look into writing SDL programs on your laptop and then let a cross-compiler port them to the Amiga for you.

-edit-

Since "Little Computer People" originated on the Commodore 64 it should be possible to do something simple on the Amiga kind of like that.  But do keep it simple.  It is hard work to write software.

[Piru]

@Starrfoxx

Source code to the bestseller titles such as Sims is worth hundreds of millions. It is likely never going to be available under open source license (at least not anytime soon, the Sims sequels/kits are still making tons of money).

Quake, Quake 2 and Quake 3 ware ported because the source code was made available for those (thanks Id Software!).

Clone of the Sims is a bit unrealistic, to put it kindly. Learning to program takes years (I've been learning for over 20 years). Programming anything even remotely as complex as the Sims takes years aswell, and you just can't make it alone.

Anyway, if you want to have a quick look,  the quake 3 source code is available. Porting it for MorphOS was done in hours, as the code was already quite portable. Anyway, browsing this source code should give you some idea what game project might look like. The source code to the MorphOS port is also available, in case you want to compare.

[Starrfoxx]

Piru wrote:

Source code to the bestseller titles such as Sims is worth hundreds of millions. It is likely never going to be available under open source license (at least not anytime soon, the Sims sequels/kits are still making tons of money).

This is true.  It's still making money.  I had seen that Aspyr had made conversions for the Mac, so I figured someone on the Amiga side could also.  But then I looked into Aspyr a bit more and found out that they make about 60% of the Mac conversions of a lot of games.  So, they probably have the money to get things licensed.  I also wasn't sure how involved it was to convert a game.  I didn't know if you just have to go line by line on code and rewrite it or some other way.

I can't view the source code on Quake here at work.... it's a blocked site.  But that would be interesting to look at.

I'm not going to really know how this is going to work until I do some studying.  Thanks for all the responses.  I'll let you know what I discover after reading up on the programming.

[amigadave]

@Starrfoxx,

As another beginning programmer that wants to create games for my favorite computer, may I suggest that you start out writing clones of games you like, or original ideas, in a simple language like AMOS, Blitz Basic, etc. and then move up to C or C++ as your programming skills progress.  Start with easy projects that you can complete in a relatively short period of time, then upward and onward!

Looking forward to trying your games when they are ready for testing.

[derringer3]

Starrfoxx go for it! Ten years ago I programmed some stuff in sas/c and amos. But I never learnt enough to write a good game. But If i will some spare time i will surely write something. I think for PPC. If I find a good software for it.
There is not much Powerup/warpup software but I will create some. Someone surely will say: why not for pc why for this ancient machine. Just because i love it.

[Allen]

Starrfoxx.

A commendable posting.  However as many have said, maybe a little too adventurous

I know this will sound pretty bad but - as some have said already.  You need to narrow your scope.

Ignore writing code for the Amiga.  Program for Windows.  I say this because you will find little help out there on the quirks of AmigaOS programming and almost too much information on programming Windows.

I know.  I looked.  I write games for fun and have written both Amiga and Windows games.  Albeit non-commercially.

I used to run the MiniGL group when there was such a thing so believe me when I say that you will struggle to find decent examples of AmigaOS code on the web.

So try and convince yourself to write a Windows game.  Be all means once you have an idea of the basic structure of a game then port that to AmigaOS but I would really advise you to start on Windows.

Also start with Tetris.  There are thousands of websites on this "simple" game.

Something that you may want to investigate is

http://www.gamedev.net/

a brilliant resource of code snippets and forums.

Oh and use C++ or C# as both languages are reasonably easy to learn and are again WELL documented.  I would advise against using VBCC or GCC look at the Microsoft Express versions (which are free) as these are much more beginner friendly.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/visualc/

http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/visualcsharp/default.aspx

Good luck.

[skurk]

Allen wrote:
I used to run the MiniGL group when there was such a thing so believe me when I say that you will struggle to find decent examples of AmigaOS code on the web.

So you're saying we all should abandon the Amiga and stick to the mainstream?  If you ask me, this means we need MORE coders and MORE documentation for the Amiga on the web.  Hell, I'm more than willing to write a few tutorials if someone's interested.

Just to give you my POV: I've programmed for 21 years, currently hired as a Visual Studio 2003 and 2005 programmer.  I've worked here for two years, developing a major invoice system in C#.Net.  I HATE it, but the pay's too good to quit, and I have a family to support.

Give me a bash shell with vim+gmake and I'll write C++/Qt applications twice the speed I do .Net apps in VS2003/2005 at work.  Needless to say, I only use Amiga, Mac and Linux at home.

It's all about what you're used to, or what you want to get used to.  For him, VS.Net is probably as confusing as any other dev environment.

Please do not mistake this as an attack on you, Allen.  I have nothing against you, I'm just being a prick due to my problems with the Microsoft empire and their products.

[Jupp3]

My advice would be to start with C and SDL and/or OpenGL. SDL for 2D graphics, input, sounds etc. and OpenGL for 3D if you need it.

For quite a while I was a bit "lost" when trying to code with C (instead of AmosPro). Then I started experimenting with OpenGL (thanks to MorphOS' TinyGL) and had my first 3D game, blockmorph (blockout clone) running well within a week. OpenGL certainly makes 3D (and why not 2D aswell) drawing very easy (and fast, if you have 3D acceleration), basically you just need to tell it what to draw (you know, points, lines, triangles...) and give the coordinates. BUT if you choose OpenGL, you should really forget about AGA (which you should do anyway, imho)

Later I started using SDL for some things, such as sounds and input handling. Here's an old pic of my 3D accelerated gravity game, which uses both SDL and OpenGL.

If you're interested in OpenGL, you can check some tutorials here but beware, many of those examples are far from optimal (and in some cases could be optimized a LOT by just moving a few lines) but I still consider them good enough to learn the bare basics. I'd recommend learning vertex arrays asap when you're somewhat comfortable with the basics, that way your code will likely be faster, and also work on OpenGL ES (as used in many mobile devices)

[AJCopland]

@skurk
I think his point was more that if you are just beginning to learn C or C++ then there's more resources available for the beginner using MS Visual C++ or VS.NET etc.
Plus the IDEs are very good and much more user friendly than many of the Open Source ones out there.

Also I think that if you ever find yourself advocating using vim (for anything) then you are not thinking of the novice user :-D

Learning a portable language like C or C++ on the PC is ok, then he can bring that experience back to the Amiga. There are major differences but it's not much harder than going from PC to Gameboy Advance development. However starting off on the Amiga could potentially limit his resources unnecessarily.

Just my opinion obviously.

Andy

[Minuous]

Nice post there Bill :-)

>Ignore writing code for the Amiga. Program for Windows.

This on an Amiga forum!? Then people wonder why there is a lack of Amiga software?? If the Amiga is to continue to thrive it needs support, such "Amiga is dead" statements are self-fulfilling prophecies.

>Also start with Tetris. There are thousands of websites on this "simple" game.

Spare us the Tetris clones. As you have said, there are thousands of these. I doubt anyone wants more of these at the expense of more original software. There are many other games which would be more worthwhile to remake. Surely with a little more thought one can come up with something a bit more original and worthwhile to code.

[lorddef]

The problem with the ms .net environments is that they box you in a lot, and in my opinion they don't really teach you much.

I'd start out with C/C++ and then take a look at the .net stuff if you want to churn out a windows application quickly. Especially if you intend to lear no windows and migrate to the amiga.

[Yisrael48]

Well if you have no experience whatsoever how are you thingking about porting a Pc game to the Amiga.

Besides that the Amiga hardware is to weak to really port games to. The videocards are to slow to really enjoy a pc game that would have been ported.

Speaking for myself i am making an Amiga version of the gameboy advance version of Advance Wars 2 black hole rising. It's no port just reverse engineering Arm code and write from the ground up 680x0 code. At first it will run on a classic Amiga 500/2000 with a bit of a ram expansion.
Later i am thinking to do a A1200 version.

If you are eager to program and write games perhaps that could be an idea for ya. There is enough coding material around for the Gameboy and Amiga to get you started.

My development system is a PC where i use a GBA emulator and WinUAE to write the code on. Later i test it on a classic Amiga to check compatibility. This process of creating a game give much fun. Of course i code in Assembler C++ sux and takes longer to learn.

PC to Amiga is mostly not do-able because the Amiga is far to weak but Gameboy games give's you enough challenges, but dont expect to make an Half-life 2 or Battlefield 2. And a PPC Amiga well its not the real thing ya know!!!!

[seanys]

Amiduffer wrote:
Oh yeah! Little Computer People. Never got the little guy to do anything except stare at me

Then check out this page. There's an excellent flash anim of the game running.

He lives, he loves, other human stuff.