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AuthorTopic: Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.  (Read 6224 times)

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Offline Varthall

Re: Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.
« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2006, 07:17:22 PM »
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Different isn't good if your product is a non existent.

Well, tomorrow I'll see one of those products, and I hope they'll manage to market it with OS4.

Varthall
AmigaOne XE - AmigaOS 4.1 - Freescale 7457 1GHz - 1GB ram
MPlayer for OS4: https://sourceforge.net/projects/mplayer-amigaos/
 

Offline neon32

Re: Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.
« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2006, 07:20:21 PM »
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Of course everyone has their own tastes and preferences. I have always liked the idea of "custom" (i.e. with a high, or total degree of compatibility, not reached only by software drivers) computers as they make me, as an owner, fell more part of a community (same hardware, easier to get advice on hardware problems), hardware banging becomes a possibility, and last but not least I become much easier attached to them.


I completely agree.
 

Offline Manu

Re: Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.
« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2006, 07:34:43 PM »
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neon32 wrote:
I believe the title of the thread is "Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the x86" not "Do you care about Amiga OS4 or not?".


Well we already know that OS4 never is going to be ported
so there's no point in commenting on OS4 specifically.
So why would I care for OS4?

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There's a couple of reasons off the top of my head why I don't want the Amiga to be running on x86. One is that I dont really want it to be involved in the Mhz race, where only the fastest speeds will do, which is how Mac and Windows seem to be doing things at the moment. It was the same back when the classic Amiga was around. "Your Amiga with it's 7 Mhz CPU is nothing compared to my PC running it 66Mhz!".


Oh, come on. That was ages ago, I thought everybody moved
on since then. I rather see Amiga progress among others
than be frozen in time on custom hardware. Do you really
think a small hardware company can keep up with todays
technology, we will always stay 10 years behind as long
as we are relying on tiny companys building harware for us
with slow progress. I don't like it that way.

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And another point is that you cannot simply buy a x86 CPU that can be passivly cooled - every cpu, even mobile ones run hot and i'm sick of having a computer that makes so much noise. (And yes I have "silent" fans and psu in my computer, it still makes as much noise when cpu intense tasks are running)


Yes, PCs can run silent too.

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One final point is that I dont think it's good to have just one main type of cpu out there. I think it's good to have options, and although there isn't any manufacturer that can compete with the x86 CPU at the moment, I dont think that everybody should just ditch everything else and jump on the x86 bandwagon, just becasue it's the "fastest".


Not jumping on the x86 bandwagon leaves us behind. Why do
you think AOS on PS3 is so hyped? Because it's new technology and it's believed to be fast. By your reasoning
it would be better that we should build our own PS3 eqvivalent and not use available fast hardware.

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It's not the speed, it's what you do with it that counts.


Sure but we can't even have a decent laptop when we are
tied to PPC, because no one makes them.
AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current, hardware-intensive solutions. And they\\\'d go faster. --D.Haynie
__________________________________________
http://www.cartoonspace.net
 

Offline woz111

Re: Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.
« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2006, 07:39:39 PM »
Let's talk sense here, custom chips?? Dead, so please don't talk about that. The Amiga at the mo hasn't even got a motherboard out on the market for OS-4. Without OS-4 how's OS-5 going to happen. We have to look at what's readily available and also at a cheap price, our options are x86. I bought a CyberStorm PPC brand new and supported the Amiga as best anyone could, the market was too small. When Phase5 folded, I'd say PPC's for the amiga died with them, unfortunatly. Also, PPC is way too expensive now anyway. x86 is now the way foreward, hell, I'm still waiting for the Amijoe, haha, and it wasn't even April the 1st.
 

Offline m0ns00n

Re: Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.
« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2006, 07:40:12 PM »
Don't embarass yourself. If you join the "x86 side" you won't be running alongside boys like Microsoft, Apple and the like unless you're HUGE.

Linux ran alongside Microsoft and Apple. Today they are huge. They succeeded because nobody could stop them (1), and their developers didn't stop developing the OS (2). In a capitalistic world, no OS has a chance on the Desktop if they aren't Microsoft or Apple. It's a matter of tradition now, since they've been the only giants since 1994 or so.

An AmigaOS has the same chance as Linux had in getting market share. The only thing you need is to be able to distribute your OS to people (something the commercial Amiga OS developers just plainly doesn't seem to grasp) and secondly, to maintain it separately of popularity - for it's own sake, because you believe it's any good.

I have perhaps 3 users with Lunapaint. Still, I develop on it because I think it's good in itself! That's faith in your OS and that's what's gonna lead you somewhere. The fact that no commercial intrest can shut you down is the other plus which is gonna move you ahead. No funding problems - no deadlines to keep in respect to budgets.

That's why I believe in AROS in the first place:

1. It understands that x86 is the most accessible to people
2. It understands that open source is unstoppable and immune to corporations trying to "stifle competition"
3. It is more friendly to YOU, - no NDAs, no secrecy crap, no mystical personworship for no reason. Take it or leave it, no strings attached.

More people should support it.
 

Offline Manu

Re: Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.
« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2006, 07:42:38 PM »
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Varthall wrote:
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What does PPC architecture offer, apart from some vague "spiritual" heredity to the 680x0 of yore?

The possibility to build a custom machine, which is not yet another x86 mobo which has already its load of OSes.

Varthall


Wo needs custom hardware? Todays custom hardware means
worse designed, poorer performance, slow progress.
Why hold back Amiga OS ? Let in run on yet another x86 mobo
so people can give it a chance. Don't you think Eyetech
going bust shows how freaking hard it is to bring forth
special "allowed" hardware. How many bankrupts/failures do we need to see before bells starts ringing ?


AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current, hardware-intensive solutions. And they\\\'d go faster. --D.Haynie
__________________________________________
http://www.cartoonspace.net
 

Offline maffoo

Re: Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2006, 07:43:12 PM »
@Varthall

Why does PPC offer any more potential than x86 for custom machines? In theory, couldn't a custom x86 motherboard be created? (Eg. using some sort of Kickstart equivalent instead of a BIOS, with integrated custom GPU.)

Not that it's likely to happen of course  :-P
 

Offline chsedge

Re: Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.
« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2006, 07:47:27 PM »
the OS4 isn't ported to X86 only because they don't want to and the reason are market driven (oh the true passion for information technology!). oh but yes a ppc mobo is custom...this is the same crap going on for more than 10 years...

The choiche not to support a X86 technology only because it's Intel and we don't like Intel, I wanna to be different blablabla was the final word on the death of Amiga.

We're not in 1985 anymore. The situation is different, the market and the technology is mature today and there are little space for inventing things. I read the manifesto of Pianeta Amiga and it made me smile: "It is an event in which to enjoy again the taste for the "genuine" information technology of the origins, a time in which passion, intuition and the genius of young people led I.T. towards unimaginable progress not tied only by the common rules of commerce and simple market logic"

Infact today in Amiga world (the world of Hyperion, Eyetech etc.) I don't find neither passion, intuition or genius. The greatest are watching us: the people at PARC, Woz, the creators of MAC, the original Amiga team, the MIT hackers in the 60's not these bunch of IT rookies...

Today there's fantastic technology sold at very low price, produced by the people who really know how to do their job but we don't use it because it's not Amiga. I tought computers were a tool to do things, not an idol

And some of you are really slave of a name? of a computer?
Jay Miner is surely smiling now, I wish I could heard his opinion on this right now.
 

Offline dammy

Re: Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.
« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2006, 07:49:18 PM »
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So the "custom" chips in the original amiga weren't a good thing?


It was an excellent idea at the time when tech market was the wild wild west era, and a creative individuals could carve out an empire from the beginnings of a house garage.  Eye popping gaming capabilities had to be created that was affordable.  Hence, the Amiga was born.  Today, if you want to revisit the wild wild west, you can either take a flight to your favorite watering hole or take the Interstate Highway.  If you think you can get there by horse and wagon, be prepared to meet certain traffic laws, enviromental laws and certain death from a auto accident.  Until you can create a time machine, live for today, not the past.



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In my oppinion custom is a good thing, as long it's not a cause for being a pain in the arse to program for. If you join the x86 side, you'll be running along-side the "big boys" Microsoft, Apple, and Linux in the eyes of the public.


In other words, no one is going to be able to rip off folks for common hardware.  How sad, only making 10 or so buck from a sale of a mobo. /sniffles.  As for the eye of the public, it's even worse when they find it's over priced and way under preforming.  Remember, Amiga was CHEAPER then those ghastly 286 boxes and was far better at games with stereo sound, no less.  That is the reason it's so near and dear to us, best bang for the buck.

Is it any wonder that a generic miniATX series mobo that happen to sport a slow PPC that was seriously over priced and buggy went over like a lead balloon in sales with the public?  Wake up an smell the coffee!  Reality says you have to be competitive in the real world.  Just ask Eyetech.

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At this moment in time funds are limited and large leaps in technology are not really on the horizon, so i think Amiga would fair much better creating it's own section of the market, and gain it's own fan base like that then trying to catch up with the large companies and essentially becoming a "PC" in the process.


Sadly, Eyetech already did that with the A1 which was a generic (third party no less) mobo that happen to sport a PPC CPU (plus buggy chipset) and a boingball logo.  The only difference between a A1 and x86 mobo, the x86 was a franction of the price, the chipsets worked with common obtained additions (aka RAM) and warranties are usually honored.  So why don't you call old Allen up, tell him you got the perfect business model for him.  He'll love it!

Dammy
Dammy

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Arix-OS/414578091930728
Unless otherwise noted, I speak only for myself.
 

Offline Manu

Re: Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.
« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2006, 07:51:36 PM »
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Today there's fantastic technology sold at very low price, produced by the people who really know how to do their job but we don't use it because it's not Amiga. I tought computers were a tool to do things, not an idol


There you have it. Spot on. I couldn't agree more, infact
can I use your words in my signature  :-)
AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current, hardware-intensive solutions. And they\\\'d go faster. --D.Haynie
__________________________________________
http://www.cartoonspace.net
 

Offline woz111

Re: Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.
« Reply #40 on: September 22, 2006, 07:56:59 PM »
The Amiga for me was and still is the OS, not the custom hardware and all that. Everyone who thinks the Amiga OS shouldn't be ported over to the x86 platform is, like chsedge says, hammering yet another nail in it's coffing. We should now forget the PPC, the cost for one would turn a lot of people off. And our community's small enough as it is.
 

Offline Varthall

Re: Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.
« Reply #41 on: September 22, 2006, 08:00:55 PM »
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The choiche not to support a X86 technology only because it's Intel and we don't like Intel, I wanna to be different blablabla was the final word on the death of Amiga.

I don't think that way to be the reason to stick to PPC , and I think too that's a childish reason.

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Infact today in Amiga world (the world of Hyperion, Eyetech etc.) I don't find neither passion, intuition or genius. The greatest are watching us: the people at PARC, Woz, the creators of MAC, the original Amiga team, the MIT hackers in the 60's not these bunch of IT rookies...

I couldn't find any other reason for Hyperion to develop an operating system with so small possibilities of income than because of passion.

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And some of you are really slave of a name? of a computer?

I'm not. I have my limits too, when deciding to support or not a platform.

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Jay Miner is surely smiling now, I wish I could heard his opinion on this right now.

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, and I shouldn't have to agree to his opinion even if he's one of the "fathers" of the Amiga.

Varthall
AmigaOne XE - AmigaOS 4.1 - Freescale 7457 1GHz - 1GB ram
MPlayer for OS4: https://sourceforge.net/projects/mplayer-amigaos/
 

Offline Varthall

Re: Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.
« Reply #42 on: September 22, 2006, 08:09:08 PM »
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It was an excellent idea at the time when tech market was the wild wild west era, and a creative individuals could carve out an empire from the beginnings of a house garage. Eye popping gaming capabilities had to be created that was affordable. Hence, the Amiga was born. Today, if you want to revisit the wild wild west, you can either take a flight to your favorite watering hole or take the Interstate Highway. If you think you can get there by horse and wagon, be prepared to meet certain traffic laws, enviromental laws and certain death from a auto accident. Until you can create a time machine, live for today, not the past.

Using your own comparison, personally I'm not seeking for the wild wild west, rather the excitement of that era. It won't be the excitement for new discoveries, but rather n excitement by using a computer which I like.

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Sadly, Eyetech already did that with the A1 which was a generic (third party no less) mobo that happen to sport a PPC CPU (plus buggy chipset) and a boingball logo.

... and a OS specifically made for it.

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The only difference between a A1 and x86 mobo, the x86 was a franction of the price, the chipsets worked with common obtained additions (aka RAM) and warranties are usually honored.  So why don't you call old Allen up, tell him you got the perfect business model for him.  He'll love it!

You're forgetting at least one other difference: the fact that we have now a single motherboard set as standard with its own OS, and not just an OS with a very poor support for the vast array of hardware in the x86 market. Isn't this a difference, too?

Varthall
AmigaOne XE - AmigaOS 4.1 - Freescale 7457 1GHz - 1GB ram
MPlayer for OS4: https://sourceforge.net/projects/mplayer-amigaos/
 

Offline stone

Re: Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.
« Reply #43 on: September 22, 2006, 09:55:11 PM »
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Why does PPC offer any more potential than x86 for custom machines? In theory, couldn't a custom x86 motherboard be created? (Eg. using some sort of Kickstart equivalent instead of a BIOS, with integrated custom GPU.)

opposed to intel and amd you can go to ibm and have any powerpc cpu you could ever imgaine created to suit your spefic needs. with power/powerpc you are covered in every imaginable product from space shuttles and supercomputers to coffeemachines, pda's and childrens toys.

now thats a real potential. wheter its a viable one worth aiming for is another matter.

/stone
 

Offline stone

Re: Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.
« Reply #44 on: September 22, 2006, 09:57:52 PM »
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We should now forget the PPC, the cost for one would turn a lot of people off. And our community's small enough as it is.

cost is quite a poor argument considering the widely spread use of powerpc chips in cheap hardware and game consoles. amd and intel systems are way expensive in comparison.

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Today there's fantastic technology sold at very low price, produced by the people who really know how to do their job

definitly, and an awful lot of that technology isnt x86 based.

/stone