Apple and New Amiga OS4 Compatibility?

[strobe]

@araknoid

1) There are no new Amigas yet, and definitely no new Amiga laptops. Wait until there's actually an OS to go along with the name.

2) IIRC Bill Buck said he bought one of the key MorphOS developers a Titanium PowerBook, presumably to port MorphOS to it. I haven't heard any further developments however.

[Senex]

@araknoid

Excuse me if you already know, but since you're new, you might have missed that today there are two competing solutions (in development).

One is "AmigaOS4" which components are currently developed by Hyperion mainly on Classic-Amigas with the PPC-boards from the former Phase5.

It's intended to run on the so-called "AmigaOne" later, distributed by Eyetech, who simply resell a reference-design PPC-board by the northbridge-manufacturer MAI called "Teron". You could buy some of these Terons/AmigaOnes already, but currently the more appropiate name would rather be "LinuxOne", since OS4 is not ready yet. In fact, at least very few weeks ago it had not even all components integrated together yet (especially a key part, the emulation, is missing), so that it's not even in real betatest yet (just it's components for itself).

The current "Amiga Inc." (since 2000) plays, as in the years before, no major role in all this, they just gave licenses for the use of the trademarks and the source-code of AmigaOS 3.1 (the source-code for 3.5 & 3.9 is owned by Haage&Partner who developed those updates back then). Hyperion have even to acquire the money for the OS-development themselves, so OS4 is basically their's but might be bought back by AI later.

On the other hand there is Genesi, who's key developers (HW&SW) are from the former Phase5- and CGFX-RTG-teams, i.e. among others the guys who brought the first and only PPC-CPU-boards to the 68k-Amigas.

Genesi have developed their own PPC-board called Pegasos, which does have a few additional features compared to the Teron and is smaller (microATX).

Furthermore they've developed their own, AmigaOS-compatible OS called MorphOS. MorphOS is already even in public betatest for many, many monthes. Both, Pegasos and MorphOS, can be bought by plain end-users for some time already - although just in limited quantities yet because of continued delivery-shortfalls of the northbridge-manufacturer Mai (see above).

Therefore Genesi got fed up with them and cancelled the Pegasos-I in favour of the currently developed Pegasos-II which will have another manufacturer's northbridge (from Marvell).

A more detailed overview you can find at MorphOS-News.de, it's a report done from the official launch of the Pegasos-I at the "Amiga- & Retro-Computing-Show" in Aachen, Germany, last year. It's not up-to-date anymore, though (see above, e.g. regarding the Pegasos-II and Marvell), but should be sufficient for a first impression.

In case you've further questions or might even get interested in developing for this platform, you could contact Raquel Velasco and Bill Buck of Genesi at bbrv@genesi.lu.

[Kay]

> How do I get an Amiga One? How much will it cost? I have a AmigaCD32.

It can be ordered from one of these dealers. The price is a bit steep, unfortunately, although this shouldn't be a problem if you're used to Apple hardware ;-). There are three different models, with prices ranging from approximately 580 Euro to 800 Euro. Apart from the motherboard, you can use standard PC components when building your system, provided there are drivers available. Feel free to ask if you need more info about this.

> Are there any Amiga Laptops out there?

Unfortunately, no. There have been custom made ones, but nothing has ever hit mass production. Unless you have the skill to build one yourself, your best option would be to get a Laptop PC and run one an Amiga emulator on it.

> I am ready to return to the Amiga Computing world.

:-D Glad to hear that! Feel free to ask here should you ever need any advice.

Kay

[Kay]

> 1) There are no new Amigas yet, and definitely no new Amiga laptops. Wait until there's actually
> an OS to go along with the name.

The machines are here now, even though the OS is not. Still, it's not like the motherboard can't be used without AmigaOS. They currently run both LinuxPPC and MacOS (through MOL). If you don't mind playing around with these OS's while waiting for AmigaOS, buying the machines now makes perfect sense, as OS4 is thrown in for free when you order early.

Kay

[Kay]

@Senex:

> One is "AmigaOS4" which components are currently developed by Hyperion mainly on
> Classic-Amigas with the PPC-boards from the former Phase5.

Although I know you don't like it, the name is AmigaOS4, not "AmigaOS4".

> It's intended to run on the so-called "AmigaOne" later, distributed by Eyetech, who
> simply resell a reference-design PPC-board by the northbridge-manufacturer MAI called "Teron".

Once again, it's AmigaOne, not "AmigaOne". Anyway, I see you are making an effort to make it sound like Eyetech is somehow being dishonest. It's true that the AmigaOne is pretty identical to the Teron. The difference is that the AmigaOne is licensed so that it will run AmigaOS. That is what Eyetech, a Mai distributor, is adding to the Teron.

> The current "Amiga Inc." (since 2000) plays, as in the years before, no major role in all this,
> they just gave licenses for the use of the trademarks and the source-code of AmigaOS 3.1

Yes, as we all know, OS4 development is lead by  Hyperion. Their enormous dedication to the platform and experience in porting software from 68k to PPC makes them a good choice in my opinion. AmigaInc are working on the AmigaDE, which is planned to be integrated in AmigaOS at a later point.
 
> (the source-code for 3.5 & 3.9 is owned by Haage&Partner who developed those updates back then).

Not quite true. There were more developers contributing to 3.5 and 3.9. While it is true that H&P were unwilling to cooperate with Hyperion, these developers weren't. So AmigaOS4 is based on 3.1, and parts of 3.5 and 3.9.

> In fact, at least very few weeks ago it had not even all components integrated together yet
> (especially a key part, the emulation, is missing), so that it's not even in real betatest
> yet (just it's components for itself).

I suggest you leave commenting on the current status of the project to someone who is actually involved with it.

> Hyperion have even to acquire the money for the OS-development themselves,

Nothing wrong with that. They fund it, they make it, they sell it.

> Genesi have developed their own PPC-board called Pegasos, which does have a few additional
> features compared to the Teron and is smaller (microATX).

The differences are very slight, and there are a few advantages to the AmigaOne as well. For example it currently has a G4 module, and it has an extra PCI slot. Still, I'd agree that the Pegasos is nice, especially considering the price point. The downside is that it will probably not run AmigaOS anytime soon (in spite of Bill Buck's appeal to "clever boys and girls" to crack the protection).

> although just in limited quantities yet because of continued delivery-shortfalls of the
> northbridge-manufacturer Mai (see above).

If that's really the case, I guess it just means that Mai have their priorities elsewhere. Genesi publicly slamming their products could have something to do with it (pure speculation on my part here).

> In case you've further questions or might even get interested in developing for this platform,
> you could contact Raquel Velasco and Bill Buck of Genesi at bbrv@genesi.lu.

Yes, it's always a good idea to get the information from the horse's mouth. One thing I'd like to add, though: If they say anything about AmigaOS4 or the AmigaOne, you should take it with a bucket of salt. FUD seems to be a major part of Genesi's business strategy.

Kay

[MrZammler]

If you look on top of the "VideoMicrowave" you will see an Apple titanium running Morphos ( MOL I believe)

This was just a backdrop image.

[asian1]

>PowerPC notebook

Hello
8 years ago, TADPOLE created PowerPC 601 notebook for IBM, but the product was discontinued.

Now they sell Notebook based on SUN SPARC CPUs.

Perhaps Amiga Inc and Tadpole can reach agreement about manufacturing PowerPC notebook using Amiga brand.

Tadpole

SPARC notebook

Another option is "Do It Yourself" upgradable notebook / laptop from Taiwan (Asus, ECS). Perhaps someday they will provide PowerPC CPU + chipset module.

[bbrv]

...be nice Kay.

:-)

Yes, we will have a CD-bootable MorphOS for Apple owners (2004).  But, we will not be selling the OS.  We will selling the online game and it will run from the CD without reconfiguring the hard drive of the host computer.  Do you know the story of the Trojan Horse?

;-)

Hey, we thought we should post here...we were mentioned!  :-D

R&B

[Kay]

> ...be nice Kay.

I always try to be nice, although in your case I've given up, and settled for "fair".

Kay

[bbrv]

OK Kay, so be *fair* about reviewing this idea...

The Trojan Horse: a new game for Apple Computer Owners

The Trojan Horse was an instrument of war used by the Greeks to gain access to the city of Troy. Greek myth states that the conflict which started the war took place at the wedding feast of King Peleus (king of Pthia), and Thetis (the goddess of the sea).  All gods and goddesses were invited except for one.  Eris, the goddess of Discord was outraged because she was the only divine being not invited.  Eris threw a golden *apple* into the midst of the party.  The words "To the most beautiful" were inscribed on the apple.  Naturally, more than one goddess claimed the apple.  Hera, Athena and Aphrodite each wanted the apple.  Then the problems started.  A man named named Paris was to be the judge of who was the most beautiful.

Editors Note:  we stop the story here to explain what until today was an unknown element of the myth. :-o   There was a fourth goddess...Morphina!

:-D

Back to the story...

Paris was the son of Priam, who was the king of Troy.  The goddesses tempted him with many gifts such as power and love, but he picked Aphrodite as the most beautiful (His gift from Aphrodite was the most beautiful, mortal woman in the world).  At this time Helen of Troy was the most beautiful woman in the world, but she was married to King Menelaus of Sparta.  Aphrodite put a spell on Helen so that she would go with Paris.  Paris would have the Queen of Troy to himself, and Aphrodite's obligation to give the most beautiful woman would be fulfilled.

Editors Note #2:  Actually, in our version of the game the question is not whether or not she goes with Paris.  The question becomes whether or not the winner COMES to Paris...you know, where we have an office!  :-D

OK, back to the story again...

When Paris came to visit, Helen left with him to return to Troy.

Enraged, the Greek king launched a fleet of one thousand ships to go to Troy and retrieve Helen. Helen's was "the face that launched a thousand ships."

(I personally would have picked Raquel, but that is another story. :-) )

Many main characters of the Greek epics and myths were involved in the siege of Troy.  Achilles and Odysseus were only a couple (there was also Ralph, Gerald, Thomas, Frank, Thierry, Nicolas, Bertrand, Sebastien, Nicholas and even Rakesh and Sharwin just to name a few!).

For ten years, the Greeks had lain siege to  the city of Troy without success of getting into the city, or with getting Helen back.  The layout and build of the city walls made the ancient metropolis impenetrable.  After Achilles left the war, the Greeks' progress slowed to almost a dead stop.  Troy was not going to be taken by sheer numbers.

The Trojans, led by Hector, began to repel the Greeks.

Eventually the Greeks were driven back to their own ships.  Achilles rejoined the battle, and killed Hector to avenge a good friend's death.  Greek morale shot through the roof!

The Greeks needed a war machine (sort of like a new platform so to speak).  The siege machines of the time weren't getting the Greeks anywhere.  They needed something new.  So the Greeks devised a plan and put it to work.

The Greeks built a giant, wooden horse with a hollow belly.  A handful of armed Greeks climbed into the hollow opening, and sealed it up.  Meanwhile, the rest of the Greek army piled into their ships and sailed away.  Due to a convincing Greek spy (we are thinking of hiring Jobs after Gates fires him  ;-)  ), the Trojans came out of Troy to receive the huge horse as an offering of peace (for the game you understand this is a CD, right?  :-) ).  The Trojans rejoiced at the thought of the Greek army running away like dogs.

The Trojans then decided to celebrate.  By nightfall the whole city was in a drunken uproar (sounds like Comdex 2004!).  They celebrated far into the night.  In the small hours of the morning, while everyone was drunk or asleep, the Greeks unsealed the belly of the horse, and climbed down from it.  Silently, they killed the Trojan sentries at all the city gates.  The GATES were then opened to the bulk of the Greek army.  In their drunkenness, the Trojans did not see the Greek fleet return to their shores.  (Thanks Mr. Gates!)

Morals from the Story:

The bigger they are the harder they fall!

Things to do:

We need to hire Alkis Tsapanidis to build up our Greek influence.  We already have Takis Tsiricos on the team.

Best Game Play Result:

The beautiful Morphina becomes an "amiga" to all and is ultimately awarded the Apple!

Final Note:  OK, enough goofing off!!! :lol: Back to work!

Have a happy Sunday!

Just Bill  ;-)

Sources:
Quoted liberally from the Joshua D. webpage  

[Kay]

> OK Kay, so be *fair* about reviewing this idea...

Look, I don't really care about your plans for MOS. The times when I care about your actions at all is when they affect the Amiga or Amiga companies somehow. I'm sure someone else here cares about MOS for Mac, have them review your idea.

Kay

[bbrv]

:-o

Kay=Mr. Grumpy

 Oh no, Mr. Bill!

 8-)

(That is a Saturday Night Live reference for you youngsters.  :-D  )

Raquel and Bill

[Kay]

> Kay=Mr. Grumpy

Sorry about that, I didn't intend to come across as grumpy. I just truly, honestly don't care about MOS.

:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D
:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D
:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D

There, that should do. :-)

Kay

[bbrv]

[Pssst Kay... er, its a joke!  :-D ]

[Kay]

Word.

[L8-X]

@BBRV

So morhpos is nothing more than a TROJAN?!?!? :-D  :-D  :-D

 ;-)

Nice little story btw.