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Author Topic: Os 3.2 development preview  (Read 156135 times)

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Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #74 from previous page: December 02, 2019, 07:18:08 AM »
So this is all bogus?

http://aminet.net/package/driver/media/IDEfix97

Quote
IDE-fix:
Enhance your IDE-port! Faster transfer, faster booting, less CPU use!
No MaxTransfer troubles, set MaxTransfer as big as you like!
TD64 & NSD commands supported, use IDE drives bigger than 4 GIG with your
Amiga (requires FileSystem with TD64 and/or NSD support).
Patches into the system "on the fly", no reboot required.
Use 4 IDE drives with your Amiga (with additional 4 drive adapter)!!!
Supports removable IDE units (SyQuest or ZIP IDE drives) without trouble!
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #75 on: December 02, 2019, 07:29:55 AM »
Second, IDEfix does not issue LBA48 commands as the scsi.device does, and hence limits the maximum drive capacity to (IIRC) 128MB. Any larger drive will appear in the HDToolBox only as 128MB drive. Then people come along, partition their drive/card under UAE, and insert it into the Amiga, and then all hell breaks loose because IDEfix cannot address any blocks beyond the 128MB limit, even though the partition appears to be the right size.

Ah, now I get it - you just wrote 128MB instead of 128GB three times in a row!

(Also, "Gary IDE detection logic" - do you mean "Gayle IDE detection logic"? Or is this another example of German humour?)
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #76 on: December 02, 2019, 01:29:19 PM »
Just remove it.
Does this mean support for 4 drive adapters will be built in with the OS 3.2 scsi.device?
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #77 on: December 03, 2019, 07:21:45 AM »
Does this mean support for 4 drive adapters will be built in with the OS 3.2 scsi.device?
No, there is no third party product support built into the kickstart.
Well, then many will just continue to use IDEFix.

The combo “hard drive + CD drive + external CF/SD” seems popular, and the “third party product” is implemented by several vendors as well as hobbyists, and it is also supported by at least one popular FPGA system.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #78 on: December 03, 2019, 08:08:08 AM »
I am not aware of several different protocols - could you elaborate?
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #79 on: December 03, 2019, 08:36:44 PM »
Can you say something about ASL and requesters? Will they too follow the same layout limitations and settings as the prefs programs? Will there at last be a RequestString coming with the OS that is system conform, ASL based and not requiring (ancient) reqtools.library?
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #80 on: December 04, 2019, 07:07:27 AM »
Elbox, IComp, AmigaKit and everyone else, they all do the “IDE splitting” the same way. Apparently there was one vendor (“VOL”?) that did it differently, but everyone else do it the same “EB Standard” (“ElBox”?) way, as far as I know. I am sure Jens could answer on this one, and perhaps even provide hardware.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #81 on: December 04, 2019, 11:52:38 AM »
Elbox, IComp, AmigaKit and everyone else, they all do the “IDE splitting” the same way.
Nope.
Really - well, leave it to NetBSD and Linux to support Amiga hardware...
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #82 on: December 04, 2019, 12:18:35 PM »
Really - well, leave it to NetBSD and Linux to support Amiga hardware...
If you want to use Linux and NetBSD on the Amiga, then go for it, works for me.
And AROS, apparently.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #83 on: December 04, 2019, 12:59:25 PM »
And AROS, apparently.
Also works for me. And, your point is?

My point is that it would be better to support the hands down most common variant of this hack (as implemented on UAE, as implemented in Minimig, as well as "real" Amiga), than to not support _any_ of them. Like Linux does, like NetBSD does, like AROS does.

I understand that you specifically do not *wish* to have this implemented. Your argument is "Several variants exist how such adapters identify themselves as being present", but as far as I have read, these devices do not at all identify themselves (and how would a cable with a couple diods identifiy itself?)  It is fine that you don't want to do it, but it appears that you specifically will not allow anyone else to look into it as well.

Maybe one of those things that will have to change with Cloanto as owner.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #84 on: December 04, 2019, 01:33:25 PM »
I understand that you specifically do not *wish* to have this implemented.
No, completely wrong. My point is that if I support a component, I better have the specs available, and I better have the hardware available for testing. None of the two is given.

What specs do you think was followed for implementing the support in Linux, NetBSD, AROS, Minimig, UAE etc?

Again . Jens Schönfeld is very likely able to provide you all the spec information needed, and there is source code available from all the mentioned projects about how this is implemented.

Quote
Thus, you can do the following:

a) ask Elbox to update their software.
b) ask Elbox to send me their specs and their hardware to get it supported,
c) organize hardware and specifications, and send them

I don't get exactly why this focus on ElBox? This was never their invention, they are just one of many implementers, among them, also Jens Schönfeldt - http://wiki.icomp.de/wiki/IDE-fix (and now I understand that EB is "Elaborate Bytes") 

Quote
There *is* no component going into the kickstart, especially into a component we cannot update by software, that is untested by any means. I don't want to end with the situation that we have some half-working component without at least having the chance to get it tested, and having verified that it does what it is supposed to do.

One could argue that the current scsi.device is "half working" as one could really support exactly twice as many devices on the bus :)

There is no need to put it in kickstart - it would be easy to allow the (drumroll) __*** U S E R ***___ to explicitly load a dedicated variant of scsi.device with such support that officially is considered "an experiemental hack".
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #85 on: December 04, 2019, 02:14:06 PM »
I just tested on FS-UAE with the IDEFix (and *just* the IDEFix binary - no devs:atapi.device or anything) dowloaded from IComp, and with FS-UAE configured with two first drives as native gayle ide0 and two next as ide1 it works just as on real hardware, as well as MiSTer.

So this can be tested also without having tons of hardware available.
(and who knows - perhaps the largest mass of buyers are user of emulators and FPGA systems anyhow)

http://kolla.no/fs-uae-gayle2x.png
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #86 on: December 04, 2019, 02:22:04 PM »
And how do you know that? IOWs, instead of depending on hardware, you now depend on the correctness of the emulation. Sorry, but this is not a product for emulation, and you know that. It is a product for real hardware.
Good effin greef - allright then, give me your address and I will send you an adapter!
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #87 on: December 04, 2019, 02:30:47 PM »

you just need to provide an API for third parties to develop this support themselves.
That API is already there, but most, if not all, third parties have vanished.

It is clear that Thomas will not do it, so if this is important enough for the some of us, it is really a matter of finding someone who is willing and able to disassemble and patch the official scsi.device as it evolves. Legally this should be all fine, as it falls under "interoperability".
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #88 on: December 04, 2019, 02:33:27 PM »
Thanks. You have it. It's actually in any software guide I wrote.

I had the impression that you recently moved.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #89 on: December 04, 2019, 02:43:15 PM »
Please also note the type of adapter you have, and which of the identification protocols it speaks. I have about four of them.

I still don't grasp this "identification protocol" you keep mentioning - how does a cable and two diods "identify" itself?
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS