Request about OS Development

[kreciu]

Good luck with this request. I think devs. think that if you run AmigaOS on intel world will end. Running AmigaOS on cheap and fast HW. Never.

[kreciu]

Sure, money alone solves nothing. However, imagine what would happen if everyone with AmigaOS development expertise could work on it full-time.** Progress would be a lot faster. What would it take to make that happen? Yep, that's right, they'd need to be paid so they can work full-time & still be able to buy food and put a roof over their head.

Hans

** Of course, I'm talking about focused development with well thought out priorities. Haphazard development rarely gets things moving in the right direction.

... and this will never happen, since AmigaOS is nothing anybody (with exception of hobbyist) cares about and wanted to pay money for. AmigaOS is nothing to stand in line overnight to get, there is no feature that makes it better then popular OSes.

Financial support can only be provided by Amiga hobby st/fanatics , that are willing to pay for greatly limited OS and hardware. End of story.

[kreciu]

Sure, money alone solves nothing. However, imagine what would happen if everyone with AmigaOS development expertise could work on it full-time.** Progress would be a lot faster. What would it take to make that happen? Yep, that's right, they'd need to be paid so they can work full-time & still be able to buy food and put a roof over their head.

Hans

** Of course, I'm talking about focused development with well thought out priorities. Haphazard development rarely gets things moving in the right direction.

... and this will never happen, since AmigaOS is nothing anybody (with exception of hobbyist) cares about and wanted to pay money for. AmigaOS is nothing to stand in line overnight to get, there is no feature that makes it better/wanted then popular OSes. Even non-user friendly Linux gives more options and software that people could use.

Financial support can only be provided by Amiga hobbyist/fanatics , that are willing to pay for greatly limited OS and hardware. End of story.

[kreciu]

From my perspective AmigaOS4.x doesn't bring nothing new to my "Amiga" experience (sure, it is nice, there are few other things, I will share my experience later). ALL software I want/can use was written for AmigaOS3.x and actually it works even WORST under AmigaOS4.1 (glitches etc.). Sure, there is few games, "new" calendar... etc. There is no any software that "needs" AmigaOS4.x. Only difference between OS3.x and OS4.x is NEW hardware (expensive and "if" available), so system is faster, but from productivity point of view not much changed in last 10 years of OS4.x.

I have no idea why PPC was selected as a future CPU for AmigaOS, AmigaOS4.x is NOT "compatible" with any AmigaOS3.x software (as far as I can tell)! What would be a problem to "emulate" compatibility in the same way as today on AmigaOS4.x but do this on intel CPUs?

Sure, someone invested 10+ years of work/money into AmigaOS4.x, but it looks for me as a DEAD end, in next 10 years PPC will be obsolete and AmigaHW WILL be dead with it.

Considering that AmigaOS is super niche system, we should have HW platform that is CHEAP and AVAILABLE. AmigaOS should be like a virus that can be installed on the most common "host" to create base of users that will be attached to SYSTEM, no hardware.

Ask how many MacOS users cares about intel CPU vs. PPC vs. Motorola, not many. During AmiWest I heard that best Amiga to UAE Amiga...

[kreciu]

What more to add, AmigaOS should run on PC without any type of emulation and populate any single PC like a virus, spread as much as possible. That way AmigaOS would become accessible for people. Cheap hardware would give it a chance. After that the REAL problem would be lack of any type of productivity software, but I would worry about this LATER, when I can run AmigaOS on my PC.

BUT situation above would be viable only when we start thinking about AmigaOS as system that actually is USEFUL for most of people, at this point AmigaOS is purely hobby. Considering prices of Amiga HW this type of expense will not be justified by anybody, but AmigaOS fanatics or alternative universe fans.

[kreciu]

And why exactly should it do that? Os development did not stop 25 years ago. AmigaOs is illl-designed for modern requirements. I always call it a "toy operating system" because it lacks any services that would be important today. Even if - the market works today different than it did 25 years ago.
Back then, computers were used by hobbyitsts, hackers, gamers, freaks... today, they are a commodity. You cannot expect a "modern user" to know what a .info file is, or how to "lay out" icons. It's all the wrong concept.

I know, but somewhere behind my head I have this sentiment that AmigaOS could takeover whole world . I feel like 25 years ago when you actually could get Amiga500 in the store. It is somehow hard for me to think about AmigaOS as a pure "hobby" (even if it is for me... hobby!).

I actually did real work on my beloved A600 back in time.

Yeah, right. And this "worry about the pesky details later" approach was exactly the reason why the PPC experiment is right now where it is. "PPC is the future, let's worry about the applications later".

Really? From my perspective I did not see it, maybe from dev. perspective PPC was the future. I liked more AmigaOS, not necessarily as a best OS, but it was nice and CHEAP alternative to PC.

You need to understand that *today* the market works differently. Nobody worries about the hardware anymore. You have it anyhow. The apps are what matters. Commodity for the user. You don't buy a computer today because it is "cool hardware". You buy it because "it looks nice" and "it runs the stuff I need". It is reduced to things the average user understands: "How thin is it" (that is currently what people seem to want) and "does it do what I need".

Exactly, nobody cares about HW, but there is boatload of PC hardware and it will not go away "tommorow", and asking to pay $2000 for HW that can run AmigaOS in a relatively well is a LOT of money AND based on number of various motherboard revisions for AmigaOS4.x idea of having proprietary HW to run AmigaOS4.1 is simply BAD. Now, we have like few versions of AmigaOS4.1 for each HW? Strange.

OK. If not PC, why not to make it run on old MacPPC hardware. This "old" HW is way better  then NEW and I can get PowerMAC G5 as a scrap metal price. Wait. I have old completely unused iBookG4 in my storage. That move would not require 100% "rewrite" of AmigaOS. Is that right? So why not?

AmigaOs cannot do that. The Amiga story as a "useful computer" ended last century already - as I say, this ship sailed away a long time ago.

This is a statement, that depend on attitude of person saying it . Let say idea of "useful computer" based on AmigaOS is gone.

Why can't I install AmigaOS on MacPPC? You just wrote that nobody cares about hardware they use. Apparently people who own rights for AmigaOS care about $2000 mobos that is slower(?) then PowerMAC G5  and promise hardware for months or years.

It is taking about 2 years to release A1222. How long it will take to adapt AmigaOS for MacMini, PowerMac etc. It is funny how MorphOS "jumped" on new AmigaOS hardware and somehow MorphOS dev. could adapt it FROM Mac to new HW, quite fast.

Linux on PowerMAC, simply great speed:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=so35SrThHUs

[kreciu]

Consider the possibility that contracts and agreements exist that, at this time, are still in place and need be honored.

#6

IF that is true, then we can't do nothing about it, but IF it is not... then I don't know why not.

[kreciu]

Reading about all this legal issues etc. it only shows that "Amiga Community" is like any community without it head/leadership (at this point it is hard to call it COMMUNITY, only common things is name "Amiga" somewhere at the back of the head...). "Amiga Community" is in a some sort of vegetative state. It is not expanding, but it is not dead. Individuals are trying to push it in various directions of development, that only wastes resources/time on unfinished, buggy HW/software that feels as it is always in "beta". There is so many ideas what Amiga is as many users.

I'm thinking of getting A1222, but now I started to think: who is going to provide any type of support for this computer? Nobody cares anymore about ClassicPPC users, nobody cares about Sam user or even X1000 users... We definitely need like 50 different motherboards running AmigaOS4.x so devs. can spend they free time developing new ethernet drivers every time new mobo surface.

Have you ever seen chicken "running" without head?

[kreciu]

as thor writes, some chickens can run without a head for some while.
you might as well consider "democracy" a chicken without a head for the lack of strong leadership.

Community selects leader that serves this community = democracy. The better leader, the better community (and opposite). Leader: General, Capitan, President, CEO, PI, Boss, Capitan Picard... having "bad/good" leadership will not equal - lack of it .

Who is in charge of this what is happening with AmigaOS? I can't identify ONE person that is responsible for "direction" of development. What are GOALS in AmigaOS development? Did I missed something? Saying "it is a hobby" will simply create more and more dilutions of efforts. It is called entropy .

[kreciu]

Hold on! Have you seen any leadership in Linux-land lately? It is "a new distribution every five months, but still no working printing system", essentially.

Yes, I just installed MacOS High Sierra and all my printers work, including that 20 years old.