Is the Warp1260 still a good alternative now that PiStorm is out?

[F0LLETT]

My definition of boring is more MIPS than one's IQ.

Really, any need for that insult??? Sorry I do not, get excited over those games, just do not interest me. Clearly I can see, I'm not allowed an opinion because I have a low IQ.

Musashi will never be “finished”, as it relies on underlying operatin system which is constantly changing.

Really, as  have update linux atleast 10+ times and never had to update musashi once.
Maybe need tweaking to work, when there is a major OS update, however that is normally a good few years.

[kolla]

Really, as I have update linux atleast 10+ times and never had to update musashi once.

It’s not a matter of how often you run “apt upgrade", it’s about changes over time.

Maybe need tweaking to work, when there is a major OS update, however that is normally a good few years.

Yes, tweaking will be required as underlying systems and tool chains evolve. You, as an end user, may experience this as “a good few years”, but that’s not the case for whoever is maintaining the code - it’s a pretty much nonstop job of fixing bugs, updating code, fixing dependencies, testing and eventually shipping. It’s just days ago that Claude posted a todo-list for Musashi on the path to “64 bit clean”.

[MagicSN1]

I know this the Warp1260 has been hotly anticipated. But now you can get a relatively Cheaper alternative with a PiStorm and pi board. What are the chances for the Warp1260 succeeding?

It of course depends on what you want and need. I am very impressed by both systems.

But if you talk on pure performance, the PiStorm is faster.

If I check my game Heretic 2 (68k compile) I get around 10 fps on Warp1260 in Lowres (320x240). On a Pi3 PiStorm system I get around 19 fps (if I remember right) in 480x270. On a Pi4 I get this in 640x480, on a Pi Cm4 I get 24 fps in 640x480. Which is over 2x the speed  I get on the Warp1260 in Lowres.

Of course that is unfair competition. A 100 MHz 060 cannot perform at the same speed like a 2 GHz Arm CPU. This is just not possible. Not even with Emulation overhead involved.

Of course Heretic 2 is not the absolute "benchmark" for how useful a system is. But if you want to ask about speed - that is it (BTW for some other comparisions - I get 42 fps on software (!) rendering on x1000 in 640x480, and around 20 fps on QEmu on a i7 (on QEmu with a ARM-based Mac much more)

Of course depending on what you do this might be not relevant and the fastest "physical 68k" will still be perfect. And in some cases maybe not having emulation involved will be an advantage. But purely from performance the Warp is not in the same range of speed like the PiStorm (and both are not in the same range of speed like an x1000/x5000).

[Boing-ball]

Interesting. But to me cost will be a big factor and the availability of 68060s.
I’ve been really impressed with the PiStorm and with its head start. I’m not sure if the Warp1260 will have a hard time.

[F0LLETT]

You, as an end user, may experience this as “a good few years”, but that’s not the case for whoever is maintaining the code - it’s a pretty much nonstop job of fixing bugs, updating code, fixing dependencies, testing and eventually shipping.

Ah yes, I know nothing about maintaining code, . Spending every spare second, changing, checking, testing and updating.
Very rarely get any chance to do anything like that now. So many projects just sat there waiting to be worked on. Who knows, maybe New Year, I will get tool chain updated / fixed and finally release the .pbp thats been sat on my HDD for last 8 years.

[Boing-ball]

So there does appear to be some appetite for the Warp1260 then….

To me, if you have an itch to scratch, then a warp1260 would be a good card. But at the moment the unobtainable factor and with PiStorm out of the gates. To me I feel by the time the Warp1260 comes out, I feel price and availability plus the EBay scalpers may put people off.

[F0LLETT]

So there does appear to be some appetite for the Warp1260 then….

To me, if you have an itch to scratch, then a warp1260 would be a good card. But at the moment the unobtainable factor and with PiStorm out of the gates. To me I feel by the time the Warp1260 comes out, I feel price and availability plus the EBay scalpers may put people off.

Im sorry all new hardware is way over prices when it comes to Accelerators.

[MagicSN1]

Interesting. But to me cost will be a big factor and the availability of 68060s.
I’ve been really impressed with the PiStorm and with its head start. I’m not sure if the Warp1260 will have a hard time.

Can the Warp1260 add a W3D-compatible 3D Card ? I recently got the MiniGL-Renderer for Heretic2 68k running, if yes, this might be interesting to test the speed...

[Boing-ball]

Can the Warp1260 add a W3D-compatible 3D Card ? I recently got the MiniGL-Renderer for Heretic2 68k running, if yes, this might be interesting to test the speed...

I keep reading about something called Wazp3D being mentioned? I’m thinking this is a take off of Warp3D. I’ve got a PiStorm mated up with a Mediator and a Voodoo 3 using Warp3D.

[MagicSN1]

@Boing-ball

Yes it is a reimplementation of Warp3d using software rendering.
My MiniGL renderer will of course also work with true Warp3d.
My code works both with Wazp3d and Warp3d.

Your setup combining pistorm and Warp3d 3d hw acceleration is
very interesting. So this does work?

Are you interested in becoming a Heretic2 68k
Betatester?

If yes write me an email to tirionareonwe@gmail.com.

If you do not have any nda with Hyperion signed i would
need full name and postal address and a statement along
the lines of „i state i will keep the information i get
during betatest confidential and especially not copy
the executables i receive during betatest to other people“.

I would be extremely interested how a pistorm plus
3d hardware setup performs with my game

Thanks in advance.

Best regards,
Steffen
tirionareonwe@gmail.com <- developer of H2 and Sin for AmigaOS

[Boing-ball]

@Boing-ball

Yes it is a reimplementation of Warp3d using software rendering.
My MiniGL renderer will of course also work with true Warp3d.
My code works both with Wazp3d and Warp3d.

Your setup combining pistorm and Warp3d 3d hw acceleration is
very interesting. So this does work?

Are you interested in becoming a Heretic2 68k
Betatester?

If yes write me an email to tirionareonwe@gmail.com.

If you do not have any nda with Hyperion signed i would
need full name and postal address and a statement along
the lines of „i state i will keep the information i get
during betatest confidential and especially not copy
the executables i receive during betatest to other people“.

I would be extremely interested how a pistorm plus
3d hardware setup performs with my game

Thanks in advance.

Best regards,
Steffen
tirionareonwe@gmail.com <- developer of H2 and Sin for AmigaOS

Hi,

The setup I have is the following.

Checkmate 1500 Case + Corsair 450SFX PSU
Re-Amiga V1.5 with new caps and NOS chips + ROM 3.2.2 (47.111)
Mediator SX board (Will be looking to swap that out soon with a TX+ 2021) with Voodoo 3 3000 (16MB), spider II USB, Realtek 8139D NIC. Having to use PCI extender cables due to orientation.
PiStorm with Pi4B (Overclocked) using an old EMU build from 11th July 2023 as this is the version that will work with a mediator. Anything else causes issue with the graphics and mediator functioning properly.
Elbox PC-Key1200 for keyboard
Elbox Cocolino Mouse adpeter for mouse wheel
Latest ELBOX DRIVERS being used, PCI.Library 3.15, Voodoo driver released on October 2023. Etc..

All I know is that Warp3D is installed. So will have a proper test of it. Although having to use the 4MB window on the mediator (8MB window needed for Warp3D to function properly), as using a Squirrel PCMCIA for SCSI operation.

Will get back to you when I’ve proven I have working Warp3D tested….

Cheers 👍🏻

[MagicSN1]

Hi!

Yeah, my information up to now was like people saying "I think it should work but I do not have the setup to test it". As I said IF it works I would be really interested to have a Betatester who could test it.

I can tell you that ANY PiStorm is fast enough to run Heretic 2 (and Sin) in Software renderer. But if the PiStorm could work together with 68k Warp3D this could be a real gamechanger, and enable people with a setup with yours to run the game much nicer (and probably other games). Note PiStorm is not fast enough to run Software-rendered MiniGL through Wazp3D, I tested this today (around 6x slower than normal software renderer).

I still have source-code to other Hyperion Games which might be candidates too adaptions (and would be willing to discuss with the powers that be in Hyperion to get this adapted).

Best regards,
Steffen

[Boing-ball]

To keep this thread more on topic..

Just been over to the Warp1260 page. This is getting interesting now. There now appears to be an extra scandoubler/Flickerfixer option to attach to the Warp1260 for switching between RTG and Native Amiga modes..

https://amigawarp.eu/1_5_warp1260.html?a=warp1260-photos

Anyone bought these yet to try?